ultimatemetalguitartones
Well-known member
Yesterday I had the pleasure to play this one. I'll share my thoughts soon..
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braintheory
Well-known member
Nice! Sounds good, similar to how I remember the KK++ I had sounding. Good tightness & attack, but like other modded Marshall’s IME a bit distant sounding and lacking the juicy midrange of a just a good stock one boosted like the one you currently have
ultimatemetalguitartones
Well-known member
Still not sure how I feel about that one. Yeah I mean it's got tons of gain / it's tight enough and all but it lacks the real marshall character. First we played that one and then the 1977 jmp boosted and we were pleasantly surprised!
Devilinside
Active member
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braintheory
Well-known member
Totally agreed. IME with these modded Marshall’s (even all many Cameron ones I’ve owned & tried) they have an initial wow factor since it’s sorta like a Marshall with way more gain and tightness, but then you live with it for a while, compare it with a good stock one boosted like yours and it kinda gets exposed what’s missing, mostly with the more juicy, upfront midrange character of the stock one, all that added compression at the expense of other things. Still fun though
ultimatemetalguitartones
Well-known member
Ditto!
Kyrpajyra
Banned
Well-known member
I think Lance Keltner in Youtube put it well by stating that a lot of modded Marshalls are starting to sound like Mesas and I've kinda noticed that one too.
Too modern sounding with all that Marshall kerrang gone.
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braintheory
Well-known member
Yeah the kerrang is definitely one of the things that tends to get lost too with mods. I enjoy modern tones too, but generally would choose different amps for that
FourT6and2
Well-known member
Sounds good to me! Push those mids up higher, past 2:00, and it will bring back all that Marshall bark and bite.
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braintheory
Well-known member
I respectfully disagree. With the KK++ & Rockmonster I had they were just stripped out and not in the cards for them (vs the stock Marshall’s). Those amps IME still have an inherently distant quality vs the stock versions of them regardless and they also tend to get at the same time honky when up too high. I found they can sound very good on their own and fun to play, but bummers in many ways vs the stock ones with a good boost in direct comparisons. Not just those Gower’s, but even all the Cameron mods I’ve owned & tried, they just were better than most other modded Marshall’s I’ve had or tried
I found the same to be true in my friend’s last re-amp. I was so excited to use my modded Marshall’s I had at the time (won’t say the name out of respect) and they sounded ok to decent, but they just didn’t work in the mix nearly as well as the stock ‘79 jmp2203 I had. The Naylor I had at the time did a lot better as well. It was a nice surprise
hellzington
Well-known member
I love modded Marshalls and have owned many, including a KK++ and a Rockmonster. I love Dan's amps; I think they're killer. One thing, though, that all modded Marshalls "suffer" from, IMO, is being a lot of fun to play on their own but not being super usable in a band context.
For example, Camerons sound really good in a room by themselves. They're super easy to play, very compressed, and super high gain. But if you're in a band context, especially recording, that sound is probably not going to be very useful. Your producer is almost certainly going to tell you to pull back on the gain, up the mids, roll back the presence, etc. because that's what works in that context. Now you might use that sound for solos or overdubs or certain other parts, but you get what I mean. These amps don't typically sit in the mix all that well without a lot of tweaks. In other words, the super fun in-the-room gain fest that got you to buy the amp probably isn't going to be useful on a recording, or even live.
This is why the stock amps seem to work better in a lot of contexts. They have less gain, less compression, and sit in the mix better. When you crank them up, they hit the sweet spot that works better in bands.
As another example, I think this is why a lot of people think the JEL is Dave Friedman's best circuit. It's very different from Dave's other amps because it's basically just a stock 2203 with Dave's tweaks. It's got a lot less gain, less compression, and is much brighter and, dare I say, thinner than a BE. But in a recording or a band, it fucking rules. It sounds perfect in that context.
I still love all my modded Marshalls and I use them all the time but I think there is a legit argument that the stock versions of amps often deliver "that sound" you're looking for in a band context much better than flamethrower amps like Camerons, Gowers, etc. Ofc, YMMV.
For example, Camerons sound really good in a room by themselves. They're super easy to play, very compressed, and super high gain. But if you're in a band context, especially recording, that sound is probably not going to be very useful. Your producer is almost certainly going to tell you to pull back on the gain, up the mids, roll back the presence, etc. because that's what works in that context. Now you might use that sound for solos or overdubs or certain other parts, but you get what I mean. These amps don't typically sit in the mix all that well without a lot of tweaks. In other words, the super fun in-the-room gain fest that got you to buy the amp probably isn't going to be useful on a recording, or even live.
This is why the stock amps seem to work better in a lot of contexts. They have less gain, less compression, and sit in the mix better. When you crank them up, they hit the sweet spot that works better in bands.
As another example, I think this is why a lot of people think the JEL is Dave Friedman's best circuit. It's very different from Dave's other amps because it's basically just a stock 2203 with Dave's tweaks. It's got a lot less gain, less compression, and is much brighter and, dare I say, thinner than a BE. But in a recording or a band, it fucking rules. It sounds perfect in that context.
I still love all my modded Marshalls and I use them all the time but I think there is a legit argument that the stock versions of amps often deliver "that sound" you're looking for in a band context much better than flamethrower amps like Camerons, Gowers, etc. Ofc, YMMV.
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Detroit1973
Well-known member
What pickup in the bridge of that Jackson?
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braintheory
Well-known member
I think also often times we just forget how good these old stock Marshall’s can be with just a good boost in front (good is a key work there lol as in not too many current made pedals). Still not the same sound as these modded Marshall’s, but at least they can make them more fun to play, closer to flamethrower territory and still work great in a mix
I’ve not tried a JEL. Based on clips I like the more Marshally, bright sound, but it seems like the powerchords still sound kinda smooth/less growly and filtered/less raw than vintage 2203’s. I’d have to hear one in person to really know, but seems to be the case anyway for the newer amps I’ve tried going for that sound other than maybe the Helios
I had one Cameron Jose mod that wasn’t as compressed as others I’ve had. We actually could get some good sounds outta it for my friend’s re-amp, but we still had a much easier time/better sound with my stock ‘79 2203, Naylor and somehow even my Triple Rectifier Rev F/C. I was very surprised by that last one. I thought since it’s dark sounding it might have trouble in a mix, but it actually worked very nicely somehow with minimal tweaking
hellzington
Well-known member
The JEL is pretty great. It has a little of that Friedman polish but mostly in the lows, not the highs. The JEL has a lot more low end and thump available than a stock 2203, but the highs are still very kerrang-y and gnarly like an old Marshall. I'm 99% sure this is why people like this circuit. I'm surprised Dave hasn't added it to his line as a normal offering because the demand seems to be there.
I don't like "stock" Camerons. The 12AX7B's that he puts in the amps combined with the bright switches and/or voicing switches make the amps flamethrowers and fun to play, but it also gives them no personality and a poor band mix. That said, it can be solved. In my Atomica, I put TAD 5751's in V1 and V2, a 12AX7A-C in V3 and a HG 7025 in V4. Holy shit; the amp suddenly came to life. The super over-gained buzzy sound was replaced with a more vintage-inspired, organic tone and the gain knob became much more usable over the entire sweep. Even in High Mode, you can get the gain up to 5-6 and still have it be very "brown" and useable. But before the mod, I couldn't get it over 2 before it was over-gained; and at that setting the amp was very thin.
So one piece of advice I'd give to people on the "flamethrower" amps is to swap out the preamp tubes with lower gain tubes. Try it. You might like it!
Devin
Well-known member
Sounds sensual
CrystalSky
Well-known member
Which is the right one to get though? 2203/2204? I have no experience at all about Marshalls.
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braintheory
Well-known member
Both. You just gotta try them in person. Some 2203’s come out better, some 2204’s come out better, it varies, but they should all at least sound very good if they’re healthy. For whatever reason my favorite modded Marshall’s I’ve owned/tried so far have been 50 watters, while my favorite stock ones seemed to have been 100 watters, but it could just be a coincidence based more on other factors
CrystalSky
Well-known member
I am so limited to online info, cause where I live there are close to none amps around. I couldn’t find a 2203/2204 in the whole country. Wish someone could help with getting a nice one, like check and listen to the thing before I buy. By the way, do you have a youtube channel or insta? Someone mentioned you do reviews in a thread not so long ago.
hellzington
Well-known member
I am 99% sure the circuits are the same, the difference is wattage.
2203 = 100w (4 x EL34's)
2204 = 50w (2 x EL34's)
Typically, 2203 will break up later, have a little more thump in the lows and a little more cut in the highs.
Typically, 2204 will break up earlier, have more midrange, and a smoother top end.
I usually prefer 2204's. I like getting more power amp saturation on those older Marshalls at lower on the Master. I also tend to like dark sounding amps so the smoother, more compressed sound of a 2204 is appealing to me.
That said, sometimes, if you're chasing a certain sound, you might need one or the other. For example, if you're chasing Slash tone, you'll want 100w. Why? Because Slash's tone is very bright with a lot of low end "chop" and thump. You'll only get that truly replicated from a 100w amp.
CrystalSky
Well-known member
Thank you for the info, it definately supports what I’ve heard of these two.
And what about all those Superlead and Superbass guys? I for myself just want metal. The more, the better. 2c+ would be another love, but damn the prices though. Unfair, how people could get them for couple grand just several years ago, and now it is kinda unobtainium level price. Same with Camerons, Larrys and lots of other gear. Sometimes I feel I was just born too late to get good prices on gear
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