Marshall JCM 800 Gower killer Kali ++ mod

[braintheory]

I am so limited to online info, cause where I live there are close to none amps around. I couldn’t find a 2203/2204 in the whole country. Wish someone could help with getting a nice one, like check and listen to the thing before I buy. By the way, do you have a youtube channel or insta? Someone mentioned you do reviews in a thread not so long ago.

My social media use is limited and more with classical guitar stuff (I’m not as much of an electric player), but if you wanna PM me I can send some amp clips if they’d be helpful

 

[CrystalSky]

My social media use is limited and more with classical guitar stuff (I’m not as much of an electric player), but if you wanna PM me I can send some amp clips if they’d be helpful

When my PM’s unlocked, I will gladly do so!

 

[FourT6and2]

I love modded Marshalls and have owned many, including a KK++ and a Rockmonster. I love Dan's amps; I think they're killer. One thing, though, that all modded Marshalls "suffer" from, IMO, is being a lot of fun to play on their own but not being super usable in a band context.

For example, Camerons sound really good in a room by themselves. They're super easy to play, very compressed, and super high gain. But if you're in a band context, especially recording, that sound is probably not going to be very useful. Your producer is almost certainly going to tell you to pull back on the gain, up the mids, roll back the presence, etc. because that's what works in that context. Now you might use that sound for solos or overdubs or certain other parts, but you get what I mean. These amps don't typically sit in the mix all that well without a lot of tweaks. In other words, the super fun in-the-room gain fest that got you to buy the amp probably isn't going to be useful on a recording, or even live.

This is why the stock amps seem to work better in a lot of contexts. They have less gain, less compression, and sit in the mix better. When you crank them up, they hit the sweet spot that works better in bands.

As another example, I think this is why a lot of people think the JEL is Dave Friedman's best circuit. It's very different from Dave's other amps because it's basically just a stock 2203 with Dave's tweaks. It's got a lot less gain, less compression, and is much brighter and, dare I say, thinner than a BE. But in a recording or a band, it fucking rules. It sounds perfect in that context.

I still love all my modded Marshalls and I use them all the time but I think there is a legit argument that the stock versions of amps often deliver "that sound" you're looking for in a band context much better than flamethrower amps like Camerons, Gowers, etc. Ofc, YMMV.

I've actually never played a Cameron I really liked. I stopped by his place a few years ago and played a bunch of his amps and they just didn't wow me.

 

[FourT6and2]

The JEL is pretty great. It has a little of that Friedman polish but mostly in the lows, not the highs. The JEL has a lot more low end and thump available than a stock 2203, but the highs are still very kerrang-y and gnarly like an old Marshall. I'm 99% sure this is why people like this circuit. I'm surprised Dave hasn't added it to his line as a normal offering because the demand seems to be there.

I don't like "stock" Camerons. The 12AX7B's that he puts in the amps combined with the bright switches and/or voicing switches make the amps flamethrowers and fun to play, but it also gives them no personality and a poor band mix. That said, it can be solved. In my Atomica, I put TAD 5751's in V1 and V2, a 12AX7A-C in V3 and a HG 7025 in V4. Holy shit; the amp suddenly came to life. The super over-gained buzzy sound was replaced with a more vintage-inspired, organic tone and the gain knob became much more usable over the entire sweep. Even in High Mode, you can get the gain up to 5-6 and still have it be very "brown" and useable. But before the mod, I couldn't get it over 2 before it was over-gained; and at that setting the amp was very thin.

So one piece of advice I'd give to people on the "flamethrower" amps is to swap out the preamp tubes with lower gain tubes. Try it. You might like it!

Which Atomica are you referring to? The Friedman "Cameron Atomica" ones? Those only had 3 preamp tubes. And those aren't actual Marshalls, so hard to compare unless you're talking about a Marshall that Mark actually modded with an "Atomica" mod or something?

 

[easstudios]

I am 99% sure the circuits are the same, the difference is wattage

an even bigger difference between them is they have different amounts of negative feedback. Marshall should have changed a resistor value accordingly when changing between 100W and 50W, but left it the same, so the 50W’s end up sounding a bit more raw and aggressive. Very easy to adjust that resistor value to either circuit to get the same feel.

IMO those amps sound best when the power section isn’t too blown out. The 100W voltages+transformer etc do allow for a slightly bigger low end and headroom though.

The amps are so old and full of pots/resistors/caps that are prone to drifting miles out of spec. A decent tech will be able to fine tune things and get them ripping, but it may involve a bit of tinkering.

 

[braintheory]

an even bigger difference between them is they have different amounts of negative feedback. Marshall should have changed a resistor value accordingly when changing between 100W and 50W, but left it the same, so the 50W’s end up sounding a bit more raw and aggressive. Very easy to adjust that resistor value to either circuit to get the same feel.

IMO those amps sound best when the power section isn’t too blown out. The 100W voltages+transformer etc do allow for a slightly bigger low end and headroom though.

The amps are so old and full of pots/resistors/caps that are prone to drifting miles out of spec. A decent tech will be able to fine tune things and get them ripping, but it may involve a bit of tinkering.

All true, my last one had a visit from my tech for that, but well worth the effort imo for how much they can embarrass most non-vintage amps in where they are lacking

 

[easstudios]

All true, my last one had a visit from my tech for that, but well worth the effort imo for how much they can embarrass most non-vintage amps in where they are lacking

I recently picked up a 79 2204 that was pretty nasty inside, once Marshall serviced it, it instantly became my favourite amp ever. I’ve had others that were great with no work needing to be done but sometimes a freshen up is just the ticket. The circuit is 10000000000x more important than the components and sometimes it’s easy to forget that. I think it’s also true that the original designers knew what they were doing and probably tried all kinds of things during the design stage before landing on what they did.

I think that’s why I like the JEL mod, it’s probably slightly too unstable/noisy to have as a stock circuit for a mass produced amp, but it’s really just squeezing more gain out of an 800 circuit and with a depth control (hardly an invasive mod).

That’s also taking nothing away from the likes of Gower/Monomyth etc. Their amps are more like rebuilds than mods, besides the components the circuits are more their own thing AFAIK.

 

[braintheory]

I recently picked up a 79 2204 that was pretty nasty inside, once Marshall serviced it, it instantly became my favourite amp ever. I’ve had others that were great with no work needing to be done but sometimes a freshen up is just the ticket. The circuit is 10000000000x more important than the components and sometimes it’s easy to forget that. I think it’s also true that the original designers knew what they were doing and probably tried all kinds of things during the design stage before landing on what they did.

I think that’s why I like the JEL mod, it’s probably slightly too unstable/noisy to have as a stock circuit for a mass produced amp, but it’s really just squeezing more gain out of an 800 circuit and with a depth control (hardly an invasive mod).

That’s also taking nothing away from the likes of Gower/Monomyth etc. Their amps are more like rebuilds than mods, besides the components the circuits are more their own thing AFAIK.

Haven’t tried a JEL mod, but yeah for many guys more gain and extended lows are all they’d need added to a good Marshall to get where they want (maybe more tightness in the case of the late ‘70’s JMP’s). The problem is some guys hear a functional issue like noise or something else that turns them off and then their ears shut off to hearing any positive qualities also going on. Their loss lol

The Gower, Fortin’s & Hermansson’s I believe are rebuilds. The Monomyth’s I thought were not, but someone correct me if I’m wrong. In either case, while those amps can sound cool in their own ways, they all imo, to various degrees, strip away many qualities that make a Marshall a Marshall to me

 

[ultimatemetalguitartones]

What pickup in the bridge of that Jackson?

Emg 81

 

[Detroit1973]

Emg 81

i could watch this all day. Man i wish i could afford one of those or even a 5153 EL34 100watt.

 

[LP Freak]

Haven’t tried a JEL mod, but yeah for many guys more gain and extended lows are all they’d need added to a good Marshall to get where they want (maybe more tightness in the case of the late ‘70’s JMP’s). The problem is some guys hear a functional issue like noise or something else that turns them off and then their ears shut off to hearing any positive qualities also going on. Their loss lol

The Gower, Fortin’s & Hermansson’s I believe are rebuilds. The Monomyth’s I thought were not, but someone correct me if I’m wrong. In either case, while those amps can sound cool in their own ways, they all imo, to various degrees, strip away many qualities that make a Marshall a Marshall to me

You are correct

 

[itsgoodnow]

A lot of great comments in here. As others pointed out, it does not have the kerrang (it also does not have sizzle which some people love or hate). The mids do not cut the same way. I also think the notes sound more rounded than a raw Marshall (even without the violence mode engaged). I do think it sounds more modern, I do think it sounds tight, and I do think it sounds good. I do not think it sounds like a Marshall. It has its own thing going.

 

[peterc52]

Exactly. The kerrang is missing.

The cam ocean I had, if I remember correctly, had it. And I miss it. Awesome amp.

 

[braintheory]

Exactly. The kerrang is missing.

The cam ocean I had, if I remember correctly, had it. And I miss it. Awesome amp.

Yeah I tried an ocean mod recently that sounded really good. Part of why I liked Cameron mods better than others is that they maintained more of the stock Marshall qualities I like in them, but they still IME all sacrificed it to varying degrees, just not as much so as most other mods