Mesa fanboys...I have questions (mark III vs recto)

[steve_k]

Played a DR for years. Its good for what it was built for. I still think they are shrill and lack some dimension to the sound and have some trouble in a live mix. In the studio, they can sound great. Still an awesome piece of kit compared to others in the high gain market, just not for me after feeling the punch of an old Mark series.

Steve

 

[Neeklaus]

ill agree to disagree on the boosting. i have been playing metal pretty much sice i started playing guitar and i have only used a boost once...but like i said i will respectfully disagree with saying a boost is necessary for good metal tones. now..if a boost is necessary for good metal sounds from a mark III thats a different story cause the will take it out of the running. thanks again and lets see some pics and more clips!!!

 

[scottcrud]

MKIII's lead channel DOES NOT need a boost.

 

[lolzgreg]

I will agree that none of the Mark series needs a boost. I'm talking about that if a boost with the recto (which it absolutely needs) yields a better tone for what he's looking for than a mark III, what sense would it make to neglect the recto?

 

[ke2]

I`ve read several places that the eq, and especially the treble knob on the marks, work very much like a treble boost into the gain stage. My Cal 50+ is similar, I get the most aggressive sounds from running the treble kinda high, and mids pretty low, and bass even lower. I then add bass with the graphic eq again. Sounds lovely to my ears.

 

[Code001]

Boosting the Mark series really doesn't do all that much. They're already super compressed. It usually just results in more noise. I firmly believe the rectos need to be boosted for a great metal tone, however. It makes them tighter, lets the midrange out more and just makes it feel way better. I also think it's stupid to not select an amp just because it needs to be boosted to get the tone you want. If it's the tone you're looking for, does it really matter how you're getting it?

 

[Neeklaus]

Boosting the Mark series really doesn't do all that much. They're already super compressed. It usually just results in more noise. I firmly believe the rectos need to be boosted for a great metal tone, however. It makes them tighter, lets the midrange out more and just makes it feel way better. I also think it's stupid to not select an amp just because it needs to be boosted to get the tone you want. If it's the tone you're looking for, does it really matter how you're getting it?

point taken, and I'll have to agree with you after some thought. It shouldn't matter how i get the tone i'm looking for....
that said, i still am not a fan of pedals...sooo i dunno. for now lets stick with amp vs amp
not amp + effects/pedals vs amp

 

[Zachman]

Boosting the Mark series really doesn't do all that much. They're already super compressed. It usually just results in more noise. I firmly believe the rectos need to be boosted for a great metal tone, however. It makes them tighter, lets the midrange out more and just makes it feel way better. I also think it's stupid to not select an amp just because it needs to be boosted to get the tone you want. If it's the tone you're looking for, does it really matter how you're getting it?

Actually if you boost the R2 channel, it's really nice-- without much noise, and if you turn down the gain (Lead Drive) on the lead channel and boost that, it yields some nice results, too.

I agree with your assessment on not considering an amp, that may very well be a KILLER platform for tone. My Mojave Peacemaker LOVED my LPB2 boosting it. NO added noise and tone for miles and miles.

 

[Code001]

Boosting the Mark series really doesn't do all that much. They're already super compressed. It usually just results in more noise. I firmly believe the rectos need to be boosted for a great metal tone, however. It makes them tighter, lets the midrange out more and just makes it feel way better. I also think it's stupid to not select an amp just because it needs to be boosted to get the tone you want. If it's the tone you're looking for, does it really matter how you're getting it?

Actually if you boost the R2 channel, it's really nice-- without much noise, and if you turn down the gain (Lead Drive) on the lead channel and boost that, it yields some nice results, too.

I agree with your assessment on not considering an amp, that may very well be a KILLER platform for tone. My Mojave Peacemaker LOVED my LPB2 boosting it. NO added noise and tone for miles and miles.

You're not gonna get more than an 80s metal tone from boosting R2, though. I guess it would help if we asked the OP what kind of metal he's playing and what tuning he's in. You're not gonna get a good grindcore/modern death metal tone out of a Mark III, period. However, I'd choose the Mark III over the recto in a heartbeat if we're talking about thrash or some wicked 80s metal tones.

 

[Neeklaus]

Boosting the Mark series really doesn't do all that much. They're already super compressed. It usually just results in more noise. I firmly believe the rectos need to be boosted for a great metal tone, however. It makes them tighter, lets the midrange out more and just makes it feel way better. I also think it's stupid to not select an amp just because it needs to be boosted to get the tone you want. If it's the tone you're looking for, does it really matter how you're getting it?

Actually if you boost the R2 channel, it's really nice-- without much noise, and if you turn down the gain (Lead Drive) on the lead channel and boost that, it yields some nice results, too.

I agree with your assessment on not considering an amp, that may very well be a KILLER platform for tone. My Mojave Peacemaker LOVED my LPB2 boosting it. NO added noise and tone for miles and miles.

You're not gonna get more than an 80s metal tone from boosting R2, though. I guess it would help if we asked the OP what kind of metal he's playing and what tuning he's in. You're not gonna get a good grindcore/modern death metal tone out of a Mark III, period. However, I'd choose the Mark III over the recto in a heartbeat if we're talking about thrash or some wicked 80s metal tones.

See that's the problem i've been trying to figure out...it sounds like the mark III will handle my high gain needs, but there are lots of people that say it can't do a modern sound. So I'm sorta confused there.

as far as what kind of metal i want to play...I like to play lots of stuff, that's why I was thinking the mark III might be good for versatility... that's definitely the reason I've kept this Line 6 HD147 so long, i can get a crazy metal sound then switch to a radiohead sound if i wanted.

i think the craziest highest gain sound i can think of that i would go for would be between the buried and me (they use rectos) but I am completely off base thinking that a mark III could handle that type of sound on it's own?

one more question I am trying to figure out on the mark series. Obviously there are some models that can do the head to rackmount conversion...what about head to combo? combo to head? combo to rackmount? anyone care to touch on those points for me?

and to expand a bit on boosting/using pedals and my tastes. I really don't like to boost an amp 100% of the time. I wouldn't mind using one for leads or something to that effect.

i hope i'm not making this more difficult that it needs to be and if you need any further info to help me out, just ask! I really wanna have my mind made up before I get the cash to buy one of these amps, so lets be as through as possible.

thanks again to everyone chiming in!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Neeklaus]

oh, forgot tuning- C# standard/drop B

 

[Code001]

Nevermore - Politics of Ecstasy

That was done with a Mark IV and a Marshall 4x12. That's about as heavy of a Mark tone as you'll be able to get. The Mark III will sound a bit more "hairy" than the IV, but they're still close.

 

[Neeklaus]

cool, I'll give it a listen....I know lamb of god uses a mark IV...is that a good example as well?

btw, I listened to a bunch of tracks on your soundclick page. I like that guilty gear cover. i was like "writhe in pain...no way...YES WAY!" hahaha good shit dude.

 

[Neeklaus]

ok one more 'point of reference' for the amount of gain a mark III has...if it's not a good comparison, just say so...
my other guitarist has a marshall JCM2000 DSL.

i know a dsl and a mark are two completely different beasts....but can the mark III touch a dsl's gain?

 

[Zachman]

Boosting the Mark series really doesn't do all that much. They're already super compressed. It usually just results in more noise. I firmly believe the rectos need to be boosted for a great metal tone, however. It makes them tighter, lets the midrange out more and just makes it feel way better. I also think it's stupid to not select an amp just because it needs to be boosted to get the tone you want. If it's the tone you're looking for, does it really matter how you're getting it?

Actually if you boost the R2 channel, it's really nice-- without much noise, and if you turn down the gain (Lead Drive) on the lead channel and boost that, it yields some nice results, too.

I agree with your assessment on not considering an amp, that may very well be a KILLER platform for tone. My Mojave Peacemaker LOVED my LPB2 boosting it. NO added noise and tone for miles and miles.

You're not gonna get more than an 80s metal tone from boosting R2, though. I guess it would help if we asked the OP what kind of metal he's playing and what tuning he's in. You're not gonna get a good grindcore/modern death metal tone out of a Mark III, period. However, I'd choose the Mark III over the recto in a heartbeat if we're talking about thrash or some wicked 80s metal tones.

I dunno... Boosting R2's yielded (for me) some pretty cool classic rock, SRV type sounds and more high gain (Marshallesque) tones too--beyond 80's tones-- only my opinion though.

re: grind core tones-- some of my Metal buddies have been in heaven w/ my MKIII Coliseum (Granted on the Lead channel-- not R2)-- There are a TON of tones in that amp to be discovered, as I can attest. On the flip side, the OP's ideal being what it is, is the one to decide if it fits the bill or not.

I'm w/ you-- I prefer the MKIII Simul-Class amps over the Rectos, and yes I have those too (Rentals).

 

[Zachman]

ok one more 'point of reference' for the amount of gain a mark III has...if it's not a good comparison, just say so...
my other guitarist has a marshall JCM2000 DSL.

i know a dsl and a mark are two completely different beasts....but can the mark III touch a dsl's gain?

The MKIII has way more gain on tap then the JCM

Here is a clip of my MKIII, doing some grit/crunch then high gain:

 

[Neeklaus]

re: grind core tones-- some of my Metal buddies have been in heaven w/ my MKIII Coliseum (Granted on the Lead channel-- not R2)-- There are a TON of tones in that amp to be discovered, as I can attest. On the flip side, the OP's ideal being what it is, is the one to decide if it fits the bill or not.

that's interesting....i know it's probably not everyone's preferred way to run the mark III but I would probably run the lead channel as my main channel....r2 as my lower gain channel and maybe boost the lead channel for leads lol

 

[Zachman]

re: grind core tones-- some of my Metal buddies have been in heaven w/ my MKIII Coliseum (Granted on the Lead channel-- not R2)-- There are a TON of tones in that amp to be discovered, as I can attest. On the flip side, the OP's ideal being what it is, is the one to decide if it fits the bill or not.

that's interesting....i know it's probably not everyone's preferred way to run the mark III but I would probably run the lead channel as my main channel....r2 as my lower gain channel and maybe boost the lead channel for leads lol

Yup... I have had several MK's over the last 20+ years and I LOVE them. The one in the video clip- I've had since 1986, according to Boogie it's one of only 200 or so made-- but in my main big rig, I use several different amps as they all do different things (Fender Super Reverb-Cleans, Marshall Crunch, Cleans, High Gain, Mesa MKIII Coli Clean/Crunch/High Gain), etc...

Fortunately with what's available on the market today, there is something for everyone

 

[stephen sawall]

The 17 in wide (short head) mark heads can be converted to head, rack or combo.

You need to play thru these heads .... they are pretty different. As you can see both amps have lovers and haters.

 

[Code001]

cool, I'll give it a listen....I know lamb of god uses a mark IV...is that a good example as well?

btw, I listened to a bunch of tracks on your soundclick page. I like that guilty gear cover. i was like "writhe in pain...no way...YES WAY!" hahaha good shit dude.

That is OLD. Thanks for the complement. That was all done with my Mark III. My favorite amp for metal right now is the 5150. You can hear a rough cut of a song I'm working on in the "Riffzilla" clip.

And I forgot to answer your size question, but stephen sawall seems to have answered it.

Mark IV in action: