Wizard of Ozz
Well-known member
JP-2C for me.
MK7 sounded like ass.
I own a few Mesas for reference.
MK7 sounded like ass.
I own a few Mesas for reference.
H
Holy-diver
Well-known member
Mark III is one of my favorite amps for down tuning. About as low as I ever go is drop G# but I think everything sounds kinda cheeks lower than that anyways
Mesabooger
New member
Just my experience…I owned a IVb for several years. I bought a JP2C when they first came out, and then sold the IV to fund something else thinking I had my Mark tones covered with the JP. It is a great amp, and I owned it for almost a decade, but as time passed I found myself missing that simulclass bounce and tighter low end the IV had. In November I sold the JP to fund another IVb, and I haven’t missed the JP one bit. It was nice to have two GEQs to set for rhythm and lead, but I don’t miss it per se. I know you aren’t asking about the IV, but from what I hear the VII does a very good IV sound if that’s what you’re looking for. And I hear the feel is close as well.
G
gritstogroats
Active member
I own the mk 7. Played the jp 30 min sprints here and there.
I dont use all the features and even though it was on sale. I would say I have lingering regret not getting a mk 5 for so much less used. It does the thing too.
I dont use all the features and even though it was on sale. I would say I have lingering regret not getting a mk 5 for so much less used. It does the thing too.
Mike Oxhuge
Well-known member
Having owned both I'd say IV mode in the VII is almost spot on. One mistake a lot of people make is to try and use the same dial points on knobs when they aren't the exact same circuit. Dial with your ears and you can get them astonishingly close.
Mesabooger
New member
Since you’ve had the VII and IV side by side…is the feel the same? Does the VII have that same effortless, liquid, bouncy feel as the IV? That’s really the clincher for an amp for me. I’ve also seen it said in some posts that the VII doesn’t move air like the older Marks. Doesn’t give that thump in the chest. Fact or fiction?
BABMusic
Well-known member
I almost never use the IIC+ mode in my Mark IV, because I just prefer the IV mode. It's thicker, less smooth.
Mike Oxhuge
Well-known member
I owned them at different times so hard to say on the feel, but I love the feel of the VII . And the IV mode has the same lower mid frequency I didn't like on the real IV, so I don't use that mode much. Also all Mark amps seem to very a bit even if made one after the other. Lots of components that with even a 3-5% difference really adds up and can make one sound better than the other. I know with Bendinelli retiring I wouldn't want to send an older one in for refurb until more word gets out about how it's going with the new crew. I almost bought another IV before buying the VII and am glad I did as I prefer IIc+ mode in the VII over any setting in the IV but for many, the IV sound is their favorite. And if it would have had to have it serviced it wouldn't have been much cheaper than a new VII.
H
Holy-diver
Well-known member
I had them side by side and I would say the VII feels even better, you can definitely get really close with the VII except way more gain is on tap. The IV does allow you to tweak the drive which is set on the VII and JP so you can do some different stuff with the IV tha is really cool. But as far as the high gain mark tone, the VII gets there and has amazing feel and has way more gain on tap if you want.
GJgo
Well-known member
You probably read me saying that. I had a IVb and a VII stacked on the same 412 trying to reconcile them under chugging conditions, and the IV made the VII FEEL like an AM radio.
BenoA
Well-known member
In the video with John and Tosin, posted earlier in the thread, they seem to say the IV has an EVH flavor to it (or did I hear wrong)?
Meeotch
Well-known member
I mean lets be real, that's an exaggeration but here are my thoughts as I currently sit next to a III++ Green Stripe, IVb, HRG Reissue, and Mark VII (and owned the JP twice and a loop mod IIB)
The III++ has the most gain and is overall the most aggro. It can get a bit harsh which is well noted. It does not have the mojo of the IIC+ RI or the IV, but it is close and if I wasn't A/Bing I wouldn't care. It responds very fast and is my pick for technical thrash and speed metal. Absolutely killer and no boost needed.
The IVb is a touch smoother but can still get very tight. It has as much gain as the + mode in the III, and has the organic mojo that I also find in the IIC+ RI. I can relate to comments of the mid frequency hump that is unique to the IV. By itself it is fine, but when A/Bing it can be pokey. I use a parametric EQ with narrow Q to knock down 700hz. I absolutely adore the IVb. The lead channel could arguably be the best Mark tone. You have all the right controls over the gain structure, including harmonics/mid gain which kind of acts like a ++. I usually boost the lead channel to sharpen the edge a bit.
The IIC+ HRG RI caught me off guard, as I've never owned an OG IIC+. It has an organic feel aka mojo that I assume is similar to the OG, and why it is so highly regarded. Another thing that caught me off guard is the voicing. The mid hump is shifted up and gives it an unreal grind (can be excessive even). It doesn't have as much gain as the other two, but it's close with extreme settings. It's also not as tight, but with the right boost you are in heaven. This one might have the most clarity of any Mark I've tried.
The Mark VII can be summed up as: missing that last 10%. If it's your only Mark, you probably won't notice any deficiencies. Everything sounds awesome, there's tons of gain, and lots of voicings. I think the Mark VII mode is rad, but the highlight of the amp is the IIC+ mode. It's REALLY good and can get very aggro. I prefer my IVb to the IV mode on it. Personally I don't think you can go wrong with this one, but I also don't think it's the best Mark.
JP: I'll admit I've thought about buying it for a third time. It's an awesome amp and different than other Marks IMO. It's a bit wooly in the lows, and overall has a more modern feel. Also I can confirm the boxiness in the mids that many talk about. Shred mode is a blast but can be harsh. Choosing between the VII and JP - I'd say it depends on your goals. VII if you want a killer all-around Mark, one and done. JP with a boost is special in its own way. It's more of a one trick pony but is worth experiencing, and obviously the two EQ's are nuts.
Honorable mention: Synergy IICP module into Fryette 2/90/2 can totally hang, and I'd even recommend going the Synergy route over the Mark VII if you want versatility.
dead-pan
Well-known member
The power tubes in the VII matter. The crap Mesa ships them with is only ok at super high volume. Winged C 6L6 blue scream. No missing 10%
GJgo
Well-known member
I mean lets be real, that's an exaggeration but here are my thoughts as I currently sit next to a III++ Green Stripe, IVb, HRG Reissue, and Mark VII (and owned the JP twice and a loop mod IIB)
The III++ has the most gain and is overall the most aggro. It can get a bit harsh which is well noted. It does not have the mojo of the IIC+ RI or the IV, but it is close and if I wasn't A/Bing I wouldn't care. It responds very fast and is my pick for technical thrash and speed metal. Absolutely killer and no boost needed.
The IVb is a touch smoother but can still get very tight. It has as much gain as the + mode in the III, and has the organic mojo that I also find in the IIC+ RI. I can relate to comments of the mid frequency hump that is unique to the IV. By itself it is fine, but when A/Bing it can be pokey. I use a parametric EQ with narrow Q to knock down 700hz. I absolutely adore the IVb. The lead channel could arguably be the best Mark tone. You have all the right controls over the gain structure, including harmonics/mid gain which kind of acts like a ++. I usually boost the lead channel to sharpen the edge a bit.
The IIC+ HRG RI caught me off guard, as I've never owned an OG IIC+. It has an organic feel aka mojo that I assume is similar to the OG, and why it is so highly regarded. Another thing that caught me off guard is the voicing. The mid hump is shifted up and gives it an unreal grind (can be excessive even). It doesn't have as much gain as the other two, but it's close with extreme settings. It's also not as tight, but with the right boost you are in heaven. This one might have the most clarity of any Mark I've tried.
The Mark VII can be summed up as: missing that last 10%. If it's your only Mark, you probably won't notice any deficiencies. Everything sounds awesome, there's tons of gain, and lots of voicings. I think the Mark VII mode is rad, but the highlight of the amp is the IIC+ mode. It's REALLY good and can get very aggro. I prefer my IVb to the IV mode on it. Personally I don't think you can go wrong with this one, but I also don't think it's the best Mark.
JP: I'll admit I've thought about buying it for a third time. It's an awesome amp and different than other Marks IMO. It's a bit wooly in the lows, and overall has a more modern feel. Also I can confirm the boxiness in the mids that many talk about. Shred mode is a blast but can be harsh. Choosing between the VII and JP - I'd say it depends on your goals. VII if you want a killer all-around Mark, one and done. JP with a boost is special in its own way. It's more of a one trick pony but is worth experiencing, and obviously the two EQ's are nuts.
Honorable mention: Synergy IICP module into Fryette 2/90/2 can totally hang, and I'd even recommend going the Synergy route over the Mark VII if you want versatility.
I agree with absolutely everything you said here, with the one exception that the VII I had felt like I was playing a modeler compared to the OGs. I wasn't exaggerating. Also in the live metal band it was total mush and no one in the band could hear any definition from the guitar.
To be clear I don't hate the VII, I think for bedroom / studio it's great tone, super versatile, and I did find it FAR eaier to dial than the average Mark, with IMO the IV being the hardest to dial. If a guy wants horsepower though, any other 4 tube Mark is better IMO
Also the HRG RI has caught a LOT of guys off guard. Including me. Killer push & stunning clarity. It's a legit C+.
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Mike Oxhuge
Well-known member
Ive seen a few complaints from some about the VII in the mix and mine was like that at first too. Had a bad phase inverter tube from the factory. Once I swapped it out I had to readjust my settings as it was way more low end and balls and clarity. I didn't think it was a tube issue at first but then after a week it started making random crackling sounds. I had 3 preamp tubes fail, another 2 were bad from day one, an obvious visual defect in that one so I replaced all 3 with Mullards current production 12ax7. The punch difference and tone increase was dramatic. Anyone else been having issues with current Mesa 12ax7's?
GJgo
Well-known member
That's interesting, I never tried tube rolling in it. Would have been interesting to try. That said I have TONS of Mesa JJs in lots of amps and have yet to have one straight fail on the tester, though I have seen a few weak ones out of the box. I have an Orange valve tester & check all my tubes, as well as logging PV and bias in all my amps.
Mike Oxhuge
Well-known member
I previously had issues with a couple of new ones I'd installed in my Mark IV prior to sending back to Mesa for an overhaul. Mike B said 2 tested bad and they were all new Mesa preamp tubes I had installed myself. I probably just have bad luck. I believe they are JJ's rebranded or has Mesa started using something else?
GJgo
Well-known member
Mesa has been rebranding JJ 12AX7s for many years now.
For power tubes they're bouncing around between JJ 445, Mullard 441, Svetlana 443 and TAD 448 since they discontinued the Chinese 440.
For power tubes they're bouncing around between JJ 445, Mullard 441, Svetlana 443 and TAD 448 since they discontinued the Chinese 440.
R
Racerxrated
Well-known member
New production tubes are trash.
Well, maybe not that bad but I learned long ago to start buying up vintage pre/power tubes. Any and every failure I've had, were all new production tubes. When I say vintage I mean even 2k production era are way better than the new stuff. I've had new EVH X4, MT100, 2555x and now a new Triple Recto. Each EVH had at least 1 pre tube go, the MT had a TAD 6L6 take out a bias resistor. Garbage.
You don't have to spend stupid money either to get reliable vintage tubes, especially pre tubes. They're still reasonable. Just buy used/strong from a reliable(good feedback) seller.
FourT6and2
Well-known member
UPDATE
I Found a local shop with a Mark VII, Mark VII 1x12 combo, JP-2C, and Mark IIC+ Reissue. I played the head through a Recto vertical 2x12. The Combo had Black Shadow. Brought my Mayo Duvell with Lundgren M6 in the bridge.
JP-2C
I played this one first. Not bad. Some useable high-gain sounds on channel 2. Channel 3 was slightly too compressed. Not enough bark or aggression for me in general. Too smooth. Engaging the built-in boost (shred mode?) added more gain and saturation, but it was just too much. Dual graphic EQ is nice, but ultimately, if I can't get an amazing base tone, it doesn't matter how many switches or features it has.
Mark VII
Yes. Much better. From the first chord I knew it was better. After a few tweaks I was getting incredible modern rhythm sounds on Channel 2/VII mode and Channel 3/IIC mode. Both had lots of chunk and bark. Mark VII mode seemed like a middle ground between Rectifier and Mark series. IIC mode sounded better than the original IIC+ I played and the IIC+ Reissue. The graphic EQ is also easier to use than on the JP-2C because it's larger compared to the same space divided into two EQs. But a minor issue. I didn't play around with the clean channel or all the other features much. Just focused on modern high-gain sounds.
Mark IIC+ Reissue
Nope. Not my thing. Not enough saturation or aggression for what I play. For classic rock, '80s metal, etc., sure... But to get it sounding good, it had to be cranked so loud you would never be able to use it unless you were playing a stadium. I also found it more difficult to dial in compared to the VII. Push/pull switches and interactive EQ, gain, and volume controls are just not my thing. The VII is much easier to dial in and sounded better for the kind of music I play. The IIC+ has its place, but that place isn't with me.
Mark VII Combo
Ok wow. The combo amp sounded better than the head through the recto 2x12. Tighter, even though it's a 1x12 open-back combo. More punch, more growl, more chunk. Just a fantastic sound. Part of it could have been it's down on the floor, whereas the vertical 2x12 is up a little higher. But the combo amp seemed to really hit all the right notes for me. Black Shadow speaker has a nice timbre compared to V30s.
I'm getting the VII. Now I need to decide between the head or the combo. My cab is a Mesa trad 4x12. I can always get an open-back cab with Black Shadows in the future. So the head is probably the way to go.
How I EQ'd the Mark VII and Combo (snakeskin)
I Found a local shop with a Mark VII, Mark VII 1x12 combo, JP-2C, and Mark IIC+ Reissue. I played the head through a Recto vertical 2x12. The Combo had Black Shadow. Brought my Mayo Duvell with Lundgren M6 in the bridge.
JP-2C
I played this one first. Not bad. Some useable high-gain sounds on channel 2. Channel 3 was slightly too compressed. Not enough bark or aggression for me in general. Too smooth. Engaging the built-in boost (shred mode?) added more gain and saturation, but it was just too much. Dual graphic EQ is nice, but ultimately, if I can't get an amazing base tone, it doesn't matter how many switches or features it has.
Mark VII
Yes. Much better. From the first chord I knew it was better. After a few tweaks I was getting incredible modern rhythm sounds on Channel 2/VII mode and Channel 3/IIC mode. Both had lots of chunk and bark. Mark VII mode seemed like a middle ground between Rectifier and Mark series. IIC mode sounded better than the original IIC+ I played and the IIC+ Reissue. The graphic EQ is also easier to use than on the JP-2C because it's larger compared to the same space divided into two EQs. But a minor issue. I didn't play around with the clean channel or all the other features much. Just focused on modern high-gain sounds.
Mark IIC+ Reissue
Nope. Not my thing. Not enough saturation or aggression for what I play. For classic rock, '80s metal, etc., sure... But to get it sounding good, it had to be cranked so loud you would never be able to use it unless you were playing a stadium. I also found it more difficult to dial in compared to the VII. Push/pull switches and interactive EQ, gain, and volume controls are just not my thing. The VII is much easier to dial in and sounded better for the kind of music I play. The IIC+ has its place, but that place isn't with me.
Mark VII Combo
Ok wow. The combo amp sounded better than the head through the recto 2x12. Tighter, even though it's a 1x12 open-back combo. More punch, more growl, more chunk. Just a fantastic sound. Part of it could have been it's down on the floor, whereas the vertical 2x12 is up a little higher. But the combo amp seemed to really hit all the right notes for me. Black Shadow speaker has a nice timbre compared to V30s.
I'm getting the VII. Now I need to decide between the head or the combo. My cab is a Mesa trad 4x12. I can always get an open-back cab with Black Shadows in the future. So the head is probably the way to go.
How I EQ'd the Mark VII and Combo (snakeskin)
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