MIDI AMPS for the sake of argument

[Faded Abyss]

Maybe someone can enlighten me on this...

I know there are a lot of amps out there that offer MIDI switching capabilities, but why not all higher end (ie more costly) amps?

Personally, I don't have much use for MIDI today but that doesn't mean in 5 years I might want to control my amp with a computer, a boss es-8, or who knows what else. I shouldn't have to get an amp gizmo on an amp that cost more than $2K. I know its supply and demand and the customers that ultimately control the market. Is it the added cost? People think that it will affect tone?

To sum all of this up with an example, the EVH 50 watt is midi but the 100 watt versions aren't?

Mesa seems to be figuring it out.


I don't have much hands on experience with MIDI amps or pedals so maybe someone that dislikes MIDI can talk me out of it or something.

 

[RJF]

The JCM 800 guys will chime in and say that you want things simple and nothing to alter the signal chain internally.

Personally, I agree. I like Midi control, and I like having more than one FX loop in an amp too. You can build a considerably simpler switching system around something like a Diezel Herbert than you can a JCM800.

 

[neilli]

I'd love to see MIDI channel switching on all amps - it makes things so much easier to control and neater, without requiring extra hardware..

 

[Hamer95USA]

I'd love to see MIDI channel switching on all amps - it makes things so much easier to control and neater, without requiring extra hardware..

I agree!! I had to buy a Voodoo Lab control switcher about a year ago to make my Krank Nineteen80 Jr. amp head switch via MIDI with my Zoom G9.2tt effects processor. It would have been nice if the amp had a MIDI in and out jack installed. I have the control switch box powered by my Fryette Valvulator I tube buffer/power supply and mounted on my pedalboard.

Guitar George

 

[Dave L]

Well, I think it comes down to cost. Not nearly enough guys use MIDI to warrant it everywhere. Out of all the guys gigging with decent or good gear around my town from the late 1990s to about 2010 maybe two or three used any kind of MIDI, and that´s including myself.

I doubt anyone considers MIDI bad for the tone, since the switching components carrying any actual audio will be much the same anyway, but I suppose a lot guys listening with their eyes would default to saying that anything more complicated is bad in general.

Also, just about none of the amp makers know a thing about MIDI, most buy the MIDI from contractors.

 

[garey77]

I love my KSR Gemini that is MIDI governed. Kyle implemented the MIDI very well, and it is very flexible/controllable. Perfect example of a MIDI controlled amp that also sounds awesome as fuck.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Some like the KISS philosophy... others probably feel it will alter the tone. Plenty of options out there today for everyone.

 

[nevusofota]

I agree with your question, however you can make just about any channel switcher midi capable with an RJM Mini Amp Gizmo.

I use one for my Bogner Shiva. I mount it to the back of the amp with dual lock then furgetaboutit.

 

[Chris6870]

I agree with your question, however you can make just about any channel switcher midi capable with an RJM Mini Amp Gizmo.

I use one for my Bogner Shiva. I mount it to the back of the amp with dual lock then furgetaboutit.

I tried to furgetaboutit, but am reminded of it every time I need to plug in the power supply for it.

 

[Faded Abyss]

I agree with your question, however you can make just about any channel switcher midi capable with an RJM Mini Amp Gizmo.

I use one for my Bogner Shiva. I mount it to the back of the amp with dual lock then furgetaboutit.

I tried to furgetaboutit, but am reminded of it every time I need to plug in the power supply for it.

That is always an option I suppose. When I think of an amp, I think of them as life long investments, standing them apart from their digital counterparts (which I also use and am not against). I don't want to deal with an fx loop unless it's foot switchable, as another example. MIDI would also solve that in any case. Otherwise I'll just get something simple like a tiny terror.

At such high prices for awesome equipment, maybe manufacturers could offer options. $300 more for midi on higher priced amps.

 

[tazzboy]

Marshall 6100's were also midi switching

 

[stephen sawall]

Less than 10% of guitarist use MIDI. You can make any amp controled by MIDI with something like a Voodoo Labs Control Switcher.

Why isn't there analog amps that can be full digitally controlled ?

 

[Dave L]

Well, there actually are a few. Any analog amp with presets and not just channel switching is fully digitally controlled, even if they normally have buttons instead of knobs they´re not any less analog in the audio circuit. The ADA MP1, the JMP1, the Triaxis and so on. There are also a few with digitally controlled pots, like the Soldano X99 and Yamaha DG1000, and some that use rotary encoders instead like the Engl E570.

 

[SpiderWars]

I recently bought a Marshall 6100LM and was wondering the same thing. That amp was released in 1992 and has MIDI.

But considering that most players don't use it and these days it can be fairly easily added maybe it is best to keep the MIDI part more modular (i.e. you can add it if want it).

That said, now that I have an amp that has MIDI and some of the newer pedals I've been drooling over (Mobius and H9 to name 2) have MIDI as well, I'm considering going down that rabbit hole.

 

[shredhead7]

I agree with you 100%. I started playing in the 80's and I wanted a giant rack like Vai. Of course, high school me couldn't afford that, but I had a little midi rack (ADA then Triaxis) and was hooked. I love the capabilities that midi offers, with switching and minor tweaks. With that said, when I owned a Powerball, I had to figure out how to switch the rack effects without tap dancing on two controllers. Thankfully, there are midi switch pedals on the cheap like the Behringer that have channel relay switches, so there are work arounds that don't cost a fortune.

 

[stephen sawall]

Well, there actually are a few. Any analog amp with presets and not just channel switching is fully digitally controlled, even if they normally have buttons instead of knobs they´re not any less analog in the audio circuit. The ADA MP1, the JMP1, the Triaxis and so on. There are also a few with digitally controlled pots, like the Soldano X99 and Yamaha DG1000, and some that use rotary encoders instead like the Engl E570.

I've owned most of these preamps. I was thinking amp ~ not preamp. These preamps are awesome... But none of them sounded as good as the heads to me.

 

[duesentrieb]

Cost-wise midi means 20-30$/€ additonal parts (controller, darlingtons, opto, transistors, quartz, caps, Rs, jacks, 5V regulation, sockets . . .). Also the transfomer needs to have an additional secondary, which makes it more expensive.
Technology-wise few builders have access to the software. Although nowadays there are even OEM manufacturers who offer it for internal purposes (I think RJM has a PCB for builders). My guess is that this is the biggest challenge for most.
Room-wise it means that you need (depending on the size of the amp) more room for the parts (if non-SMD is used). And you definitely need to be able to work PCB only. Min size for additional midi is estimated 10x8cm. Not a big deal in a full size amp like Herbert, but in lunchbox amps . . .

My guess is that we will see more midi amps in the near future. The reason is that VTL switching is obsolete due to ROHS guidelines and there aren't any left manufacturers for the old Fender technology, which is also used by Soldano and Boogie. They have to look elsewhere and when complexity is more on the higher side like in some Boogies they need to go midi now or use at least proprietary switching techn. with controllers to avoid the downside of multiple switching like switching noise, popping and so on.

 

[CaseyCor]

I'm more interested in a new switching/routing/configuring/ect.. method or protocol that is easier to use and implement. MIDI has been the go to for what, 30 years now? It works great, but this thread proves it's not for everyone. It's expensive to build into amps, takes extra hardware outside the amp, intimidating/confusing for players.

Where is the modern replacement for MIDI switching? Not MIDI in general, just as it pertains to guitar rig controls. We've got pedals and practice amps communicating with apps over Bluetooth LE, modellers controllable over USB (which is usually USB to MIDI conversion...), and TC's TonePrint tech. Now if the companies would come together and create a standard we can all live by, connecting all of our gear with the same protocols and software...

 

[Faded Abyss]

Cost-wise midi means 20-30$/€ additonal parts (controller, darlingtons, opto, transistors, quartz, caps, Rs, jacks, 5V regulation, sockets . . .). Also the transfomer needs to have an additional secondary, which makes it more expensive.
Technology-wise few builders have access to the software. Although nowadays there are even OEM manufacturers who offer it for internal purposes (I think RJM has a PCB for builders). My guess is that this is the biggest challenge for most.
Room-wise it means that you need (depending on the size of the amp) more room for the parts (if non-SMD is used). And you definitely need to be able to work PCB only. Min size for additional midi is estimated 10x8cm. Not a big deal in a full size amp like Herbert, but in lunchbox amps . . .

My guess is that we will see more midi amps in the near future. The reason is that VTL switching is obsolete due to ROHS guidelines and there aren't any left manufacturers for the old Fender technology, which is also used by Soldano and Boogie. They have to look elsewhere and when complexity is more on the higher side like in some Boogies they need to go midi now or use at least proprietary switching techn. with controllers to avoid the downside of multiple switching like switching noise, popping and so on.

Thanks for your input. not sure what VTL and ROHS but i'm assuming it has something to do with using a standard relay to reroute circuits.

and yeah, mesa's road king has so many switches on their foot-switch. It must be a nightmare to deal with. From what you're saying MIDI would be both easier and cheaper?

 

[nevusofota]

I'm more interested in a new switching/routing/configuring/ect.. method or protocol that is easier to use and implement. MIDI has been the go to for what, 30 years now? It works great, but this thread proves it's not for everyone. It's expensive to build into amps, takes extra hardware outside the amp, intimidating/confusing for players.

Where is the modern replacement for MIDI switching? Not MIDI in general, just as it pertains to guitar rig controls. We've got pedals and practice amps communicating with apps over Bluetooth LE, modellers controllable over USB (which is usually USB to MIDI conversion...), and TC's TonePrint tech. Now if the companies would come together and create a standard we can all live by, connecting all of our gear with the same protocols and software...

It really can't get much easier than midi.