Modeling/DI vs tube amps or hybrid for an average local gigging guitarist.

[floydblue7]

Hey all, I’m new to this forum and glad to be here. I’ve been a long time lurker. I have been going back and forth for a long while now about what would be my “ideal” rig, hoping some other local gigging musicians might be able to help me out. I want to enjoy this hobby as long as I can, and sometimes I feel like dealing with rig issues is a huge setback.

Frequency - I play at church 2 times every month, and play local bar / festival level gigs in a classic rock / psych rock cover band at least 1-2 times a month as well, including weekly rehearsals

Setup - I already use DI for worship (I use a Boss GT1000core in conjunction with pedals for 4 years) and I usually do get compliments on tone in this arrangement. For my cover band, I’ve been using my board into mid-grade tube amps (Fender blues deluxe or Vox AC15).

Important point - for worship, all cover band rehearsals, and any gigs we use our own PA system, it’s all in-ear monitors. For other 50% covers gigs, it’s wedges.

I have a little one at home and wouldn’t mind a quieter and simpler solution and do like the feel of the Boss unit… I play lots of Hendrix, doors, Pink Floyd, Janis Joplin, CCR, and roots stuff like that. But need lots of dynamics and tones in a set.

The biggest worry I have of going DI is 2 things: getting natural amp feedback is a big part of some extended jams and needed in Hendrix tunes and would I lose this going DI? Another worry is having subpar live sound situations and then I can’t hear my lead guitar on stage during the set or people say they can’t hear me, the worst feeling ever…

The issue with my tube amps are tho that I get asked to turn down a lot depending on the venue, then no one can hear me since my amp changes at lower volumes when mic’d into PA… and they are pretty inconsistent in my monitors unless mic placement is perfect.

So yeah, that’s where I’m at with my rig and wondering if anyone else who plays in a similar situation has any advice. I also have an infant at home and that impacts me being able to play loud at all too. Just wondering if I’ll “kill” the authenticity too of the style of music we do for the band.

 

[Jccobb2]

New modeling is good enough no one but you will notice a difference. I’ll always keep an all analog rig, but to carry that stuff around multiple times a week is a huge pain, especially at church. IEMs go a long way for a direct rig if you haven’t tried that yet.

I have a new helix and just bring that everywhere unless I’m going to just jam with some friends.

 

[floydblue7]

New modeling is good enough no one but you will notice a difference. I’ll always keep an all analog rig, but to carry that stuff around multiple times a week is a huge pain, especially at church. IEMs go a long way for a direct rig if you haven’t tried that yet.

I have a new helix and just bring that everywhere unless I’m going to just jam with some friends.

Appreciate the response and insight. Yeah, I use IEMs almost all the time with my setups I’m in. I miss the amp in the room sound but it certainly saves my hearing from the cymbals. I’ve got Thieaudio Legacy 2 IEMs, not sure where those rank.

 

[floydblue7]

New modeling is good enough no one but you will notice a difference. I’ll always keep an all analog rig, but to carry that stuff around multiple times a week is a huge pain, especially at church. IEMs go a long way for a direct rig if you haven’t tried that yet.

I have a new helix and just bring that everywhere unless I’m going to just jam with some friends.

Do you use any FRFR solutions? Know some folks use those

 

[VonBonfire]

Modeling gear sucks. I will no longer be a gigging guitarist when in ears and modeling junk become my only options. I would rather die first. Now get a decent amp i.e not some 15-20 watt quitter rig and get back to work.

 

[cobrahead1030]

There’s a good selection of tube amps that rock pretty hard at lower volume, depending on your budget.

I got a Mesa rectoverb 25 recently that I really dig, even in 10w mode.

 

[tjnx]

I think you ought to just try your Boss for a bit and see where you find it wanting. You could always buy a cheap Headrush FRFR just for you if you need some personal monitoring.

You will miss the natural feedback of a tube amp when using a modeler, but you could work around it using harmonics and volume swells. If you guys are using e-drums a tube amp would need to be pretty distorted to get feedback at a low volume.

Idk you kinda got to hear yourself in context with the Boss then see if you want to upgrade. You could try a tonex one for amps only and use the boss for fx if your current amp modeling isnt that great.

 

[Rackman]

Between the lack of feedback issues, and the poor monitoring situation at many bar to club sized gigs, I would never consider a modeler/in-ear solution for general gigging. It's different if you are a major national act traveling with your own sound crew and with contractual control over the PA situation. But for regular joes not being able to make stage volume means a high risk of not being able to hear yourself.

 

[jski59]

I gig with a modeler/ IEMS and split my outputs to FOH and an SD Powerstage into a 2x12 with scumbacks...works great. The 2x12 gives me a little bit of stage volume and fills out the tone (even with IEMS).

My FM3, Powerstage and wireless is mounted on a Pedaltrain; one power cable, a speaker cable to the cab and XLRs to the mixer and I'm ready to go. If I need to go 100% iem or 100% cab with a mic, it's no problem.

But it does take some effort (and discipline) to create and adjust tones with two different signal paths in mind.

 

[floydblue7]

Between the lack of feedback issues, and the poor monitoring situation at many bar to club sized gigs, I would never consider a modeler/in-ear solution for general gigging. It's different if you are a major national act traveling with your own sound crew and with contractual control over the PA situation. But for regular joes not being able to make stage volume means a high risk of not being able to hear yourself.

This is a good perspective - what do you do if you’re forced to use IEMs even if monitoring is poor?

 

[Rackman]

This is a good perspective - what do you do if you’re forced to use IEMs even if monitoring is poor?

I wouldn't book that venue. Some weird power trip is going on, and I'm lucky enough that I don't need money so badly I have to put up with that sort of shit.

 

[TX6Strings]

You could always try a Suhr PT15IR. Best of both worlds. Send a signal FOH through the reactive load and IRs and power a 212 for personal monitoring and feedback. Sounds great at low volumes but can rip your head off with just a 212. Great clean, and two dirt channels. It’s light weight and easily portable.

 

[MusicIsLife]

I use my Fractal stuff everywhere, and it's great. It took me awhile to get to where I could dial it in with the same proficiency as my tube rigs, but it was worth it.

I had a Friedman IR-J for a bit, and it was great for Marshall-esque tones. If I was doing gigs where I just needed a Marshall with a boost, it'd be great.

 

[Jccobb2]

Do you use any FRFR solutions? Know some folks use those

My personal monitor is a QSC k10. Less boomy than a 12”

 

[Little B]

OP: Idk man,
Can you get a few rigs going take what you suits each venue? ( if u can swing that financially).On my worship team my tube amps get cranked way up loud in a side room.Effects board on stage, wedge or iem.Works perfectly. F.o.h.is regularly telling me how much more they prefer that rig over the other musicians fractal or helix. And it's all good,we all get along, etc.
In my gigging out bands,( we all help each out- again,it works out perfectly), I take serious amp heads and cabs and all that is in our ryder so the venue works with it.We never have turn down issues.
You could also get a lunch box head and cab for your other gig senerio if you wanna stay real amps but smaller than the heavy hitters.
Grab a fryette ps,suhr reload,etc if you wanna get to the board that way too.If you are a die hard tube amp guy,theres so many options/ ways to get ur sound to the board- many ways to make that happen.
For me in the gigging world,a cab preferably a 4x12 needs to be there looking at me doing its thing.

 

[Nigel]

If you are strong and have tone above all else:

Get a Rivera M60 1x12, put a Mesa T4335 in it, underbias the crap out of it, and run it in lo power.

You will be able to drive it and get EVH level tone at volumes no sound man will bitch about, while maintaining the respect of non-digital manhood.

 

[MadAsAHatter]

There is only one solution...

 

[MadAsAHatter]

Serious answer though...
I haven't gigged in a long while, but when I did most small bars didn't have much for PA support; if anything at all. If all you had was a modeler you'd be SOL. I'd much rather lug a head/cab to be sure I had what I needed than get caught with my pants down walking in with only a modeler. Once you factor in needing to drag PA equipment with you to gigs, it'd be less hassle to just grab a good 2x12 combo.

 

[Lickmaker]

I love tube amps. I have a nice little collection from Hiwatts to custom built amps. But I can't drag that stuff around anymore...My cover band plays most weekends. I'm now using Tonex and custom IEMs. The IEMs came first, when I was still using a pair of tube amps on stage. But since I was monitoring the amps miked with 57s through my IEMs I figured I might as well capture my own amps in the Tonex pedal. Which I did....and there is practically no difference.

 

[Nigel]

Plus if you need a 2x12 you can get a TAC 1x12 and throw it underneath, then you have a vertical 2x12 and still have the open back spread!