New Bogner XTC 104BV

[FourT6and2]

Definitely bad business to continually make an effort to improve the product

That's certainly true to some extent. But it's not actually the main reason. They release version after version with VERY SMALL changes so they can continue selling product. The target market is small for a $4,000+ amp. They need to get the same group of customers to buy the same amp over and over. How many guys have you seen that own every version? Or who have bought and sold over and over because the next best thing is out?

The difference between some of these amps is literally $10 in parts. And it's not an "improvement", it's the company/designer going... hey it would be cool if I added more presence or a bright switch or whatever and then releasing it as a new version so it kils two birds with one stone.

The new iPhone is totally better than last years too!

 

[Bxlxaxkxe]

That's certainly true to some extent. But it's not actually the main reason. They release version after version with VERY SMALL changes so they can continue selling product. The target market is small for a $4,000+ amp. They need to get the same group of customers to buy the same amp over and over. How many guys have you seen that own every version? Or who have bought and sold over and over because the next best thing is out?

The difference between some of these amps is literally $10 in parts. And it's not an "improvement", it's the company/designer going... hey it would be cool if I added more presence or a bright switch or whatever and then releasing it as a new version so it kils two birds with one stone.

The new iPhone is totally better than last years too!

Don’t disagree with any of that. It’s a business. And it works.

 

[angelspade]

To me that ain’t metal at all. Sounds horrible. Just my opinion. I played Eric Johnson’s xtc back in the late 90s and didn’t care for it either. It was for sale where I worked in San Antonio. Yuck

I can definitely see / hear your point of view on the metal tones. The Bogner XTC is not an amp that I would have even considered for metal rhythm playing 10 years ago. Back then, I was still focused mostly on what we refer to as "brutal" sounds that are 100% pissed off 100% of the time. As I've aged a bit my tastes have moved towards sounds that are still very aggressive, but more focused on actual tone and character (particularly in the mids)...Rather than how much gain I can get away with and how much scoop in the mids are manageable. The Zen amps video that I watched a couple years back (below) put the the Bogner XTC on my radar. The tones samples at 4:56 and 11:57 (to me) are fantastic example of what a heavy tone with great mid complexity and character should sound like:

 

[VHTStark]

I can definitely see / hear your point of view on the metal tones. The Bogner XTC is not an amp that I would have even considered for metal rhythm playing 10 years ago. Back then, I was still focused mostly on what we refer to as "brutal" sounds that are 100% pissed off 100% of the time. As I've aged a bit my tastes have moved towards sounds that are still very aggressive, but more focused on actual tone and character (particularly in the mids)...Rather than how much gain I can get away with and how much scoop in the mids are manageable. The Zen amps video that I watched a couple years back (below) put the the Bogner XTC on my radar. The tones samples at 4:56 and 11:57 (to me) are fantastic example of what a heavy tone with great mid complexity and character should sound like:

I am not a huge metal player....more skate punk/melodic hardcore with some thrash roots.

But I have always loved my Ecstasy for metal tones....and those are the old mid 90's versions where the red channel is more and extension of blue, voicing and feel wise.

Plenty of gain on tap in the red and it has a low-mid grind that can sound really awesome. Or as @glpg80 has always said: you boost the blue channel to be an absolute fire breather.

The only thing my Ecstasy won't really do are the more "clanky upper mid" style of metal tones.

 

[FourT6and2]

I'm confused by the XTCs because I've played a few of them and none of them had enough gain and saturation to do anything close to what I would consider modern high gain. More like... early 90s rock. I tried a Classic, 100, 101A, 101B, 20th Anniversary, etc.

Good sounding amps in many ways. But wouldn't be in my top 20 choice for a high-gain amp, if that was my main focus.

 

[Killcrop]

I'm confused by the XTCs because I've played a few of them and none of them had enough gain and saturation to do anything close to what I would consider modern high gain. More like... early 90s rock. I tried a Classic, 100, 101A, 101B, 20th Anniversary, etc.

Good sounding amps in many ways. But wouldn't be in my top 20 choice for a high-gain amp, if that was my main focus.

I have always felt the Ecstasy had plenty of gain. For reference, what is your idea of a modern high gain amp?

 

[TheGreatGreen]

I’ve always thought the 101B’s Blue channel didn’t really sound right unless the gain was maxed and a boost was put in front of it. But set like that, it’s plenty gained up.

The Red channel has tons of distortion on tap though, and it ramps up pretty early on the dial even without a boost.

 

[VHTStark]

I have always felt the Ecstasy had plenty of gain. For reference, what is your idea of a modern high gain amp?

It definitely has plenty of gain..

 

[darkscarf]

I'm confused by the XTCs because I've played a few of them and none of them had enough gain and saturation to do anything close to what I would consider modern high gain. More like... early 90s rock. I tried a Classic, 100, 101A, 101B, 20th Anniversary, etc.

I believe Classic has the least gain by design (someone said it feels like the 101B with structure low) but especially post-2004 101Bs (like in the Headfirst video) sounds like they have more than enough on tap. It's killer.

 

[glpg80]

I'm confused by the XTCs because I've played a few of them and none of them had enough gain and saturation to do anything close to what I would consider modern high gain. More like... early 90s rock. I tried a Classic, 100, 101A, 101B, 20th Anniversary, etc.

Good sounding amps in many ways. But wouldn't be in my top 20 choice for a high-gain amp, if that was my main focus.

You have to put a loop back cable in the loop (if not using it) to access an extra gain stage. You also goose the blue channel and jack the presence on them to wake them up.

 

[FourT6and2]

I have always felt the Ecstasy had plenty of gain. For reference, what is your idea of a modern high gain amp?

Of the ones I've actually played? Dual Rectifer (barely), 5150 and derivatives, Diezel VH4 Channel 3 and 4, Diezel Herbert, Framus Cobra, Bogner Uberschall, VHT/Fryette Ultra Lead and Deliverance, Rivera K-Tre, Hiwatt Super-Hi, most KSR amps, maybe some Engls, some Randalls (Thrasher and Satan), some Laney amps (the Ironheart series), etc. There are tons of more recent high-gain amps that I'm sure fit the bill. But I've not personally played them. Like Omega, Driftwood, Wizard Hellrazor, etc.

Then there are the diode clipping JMP/800 clones that can do modern metal with a boost (Cameron Jose, CCV, Fortin Meshuggah, etc.) and Wizard MTL, Silver Jub, etc.

Amps like the XTC, Shiva, SLO, many older Mark Series amps, H&K, and so on are absolutely high-gainers with great sounds. But I think many of them need a boost to deliver the goods for modern metal. Keep in mind "metal" goes all the way back to the early '70s. So can an XTC get enough gain for some Deep Purple or Alice in Chains or Bush or Metallica or Creed? Sure. But would it be a smart choice for modern day Meshuggah? I'm not convinced.

I just saw a video that came out today of someone doing "Drop C Chugs" on a Shiva. Sounds great. But again... not my idea of modern-day metal tones because it's still quite loose and ragged sounding and if it wasn't tuned to Drop C, it wouldn't sound nearly as heavy. There's a reason Tesseract, Periphery, Meshuggah, Jinjer, Monuments, Animals as Leaders, and so on don't use amps like the XTC...

Most modern metal bands are using modelers and profilers, not tube amps: Kemper, Fractal, Helix... or running clean amps as pedal platforms for high-gain sounds to stay clear for 7, 8. and 9-string guitars.

Right now, if I had to reach for a few tube amps for modern-day "metal", they would be:

1. 5150 III
2. KSR of some sort
3. Hiwatt Super-Hi
4. Highly modified 800 with a boost
5. Diezel Herbert
6. Boosted Mesa Rectifier or newer Mark

But honestly, most bands are running Fractal or Helix live.

 

[FourT6and2]

I believe Classic has the least gain by design (someone said it feels like the 101B with structure low) but especially post-2004 101Bs (like in the Headfirst video) sounds like they have more than enough on tap. It's killer.

Nothing in that video, where you linked, sounds like modern high-gain/metal to me. It's fine for rock. But not where my mind goes for modern metal of today.

 

[FourT6and2]

You have to put a loop back cable in the loop (if not using it) to access an extra gain stage. You also goose the blue channel and jack the presence on them to wake them up.

Interesting. I never tried the loop/cable trick. How does that unlock an extra gain stage though? I would need to see a schematic to wrap my head around that one.

 

[glpg80]

Interesting. I never tried the loop/cable trick. How does that unlock an extra gain stage though? I would need to see a schematic to wrap my head around that one.

He has a pretty gained up return stage that makes a big difference with the rear master turned up and using the front channels to control volume. I never had an issue with gain boosting the blue channel.

 

[John4021]

He has a pretty gained up return stage that makes a big difference with the rear master turned up and using the front channels to control volume. I never had an issue with gain boosting the blue channel.

Like to try that out..maybe a Turkey piss of the neighbor's day.
But then again, My XTC has the Cameron mod so might not notice more gain.

 

[glpg80]

Like to try that out..maybe a Turkey piss of the neighbor's day.
But then again, My XTC has the Cameron mod so might not notice more gain.

If you do let me know your thoughts. I always ran series effects in the loop of mine for this reason. I only sold it because I have a mark iii coliseum that demolishes it at the high gain thing. I found myself not wanting to play it as much and modding it was out of the question since it was a 90’s model.

 

[Dale B]

I've always viewed the Ecstasy as more of a Rock and Hard Rock amp. I had about 6 or 7 different 101b heads and a Classic. None of them had the immediacy and in your face kind of thing a modern metal amp would have. It does sound great playing with a band when you get the volume above 10:00. It gets real 3D and opens up.

Recording though... The 101b is one of the best recording amps ever made. It is so easy to get awesome tones out of it. All you need is an SM57 and a decent mic pre. It sounds great through Celestions.

After hearing enough of the new one, I would probably still rather have a 101b, but it's not something I'm interested in right now.

 

[FourT6and2]

I've always viewed the Ecstasy as more of a Rock and Hard Rock amp. I had about 6 or 7 different 101b heads and a Classic. None of them had the immediacy and in your face kind of thing a modern metal amp would have. It does sound great playing with a band when you get the volume above 10:00. It gets real 3D and opens up.

Recording though... The 101b is one of the best recording amps ever made. It is so easy to get awesome tones out of it. All you need is an SM57 and a decent mic pre. It sounds great through Celestions.

After hearing enough of the new one, I would probably still rather have a 101b, but it's not something I'm interested in right now.

My favorite was the 20th Anniversary with 6L6s.

 

[Dale B]

My favorite was the 20th Anniversary with 6L6s.

I haven't played one of those, but a lot of folks I trust, including yourself, have a lot of good things to say about them.

 

[Mike Oxhuge]

If you do let me know your thoughts. I always ran series effects in the loop of mine for this reason. I only sold it because I have a mark iii coliseum that demolishes it at the high gain thing. I found myself not wanting to play it as much and modding it was out of the question since it was a 90’s model.

Coliseums are next level. Even the IIB Loop moded one I had was gainy clear and the most massive sounding amp I've ever heard.