Pot value reactions to EQ

[Music&Chaos]

Seems to me that Pot values sometimes act counterintuitively - at least to me. I always think of higher value pots giving me more clarity - yes, but also a lot more punch. Seems to depend on the pickups at play. I have a set of PAF humbuckers I am wondering may not sound better with 300k pots after some experimenting.

I have a guitar I installed a set of Humbucker sized P90s in and have been messing with different pot values in differnet positions. I noticed that lower value pots in these 90s seem to actually make the midrange much more full and clear and these have a lot more punch and depth/dynamics than when using higher value pots. It kinda threw me but makes sense that when reducing the top end content making it into the signal chain - you are focusing more on the midrange and low end. With certain pickups - this really wakes them up and in a way - provides much more depth than when loaded with standard 500ks.

I have a single vol/tone setup with 500k pots. Swapped just the vol out for a 250k - wow - pickup is way more 'forward' on the soundstage.

Swapped the tone for a 300k - yeah, this is good stuff right here. Clear, deep, dynamic, fat and full.....

I would have figured for sure I would have dug the higher value pots but man the lower values just woke these things up somehow.

Really enjoying how these little changes shape each guitar. Just experiment with stuff - you honestly do not know what kind of cool surprises you will find.

 

[midnightlaundry]

No expert here, but a quick search said different pots changes the resonant peak level. 1 pot value doesn't affect all pickups the same because of varying inductance between models.. You are loading the pickup with the pot resistance as you turn it and the frequency roll off effect is not linear like pushing up sliders equally on a GEQ.

Higher pot values are more open vs dark and compressed for lower values.

Sounds like I'm smart. I'm not.. LOL

I love 50s wiring for the way it cleans up and stays bright with hums for cleans and dirty cleans. I just put a single in the neck and the 50s was now WAY to bright so I changed to modern but kept the 500k with no added resistor on the single because they were balanced between each other on full volume.

But now the middle position lacked clarity so I put a push pull pole of the neck so I can go series or parallel. Middle position with single neck and parallel bridge is a great clean sound now.

 

[mnemonic]

If you roll your volume down to play, sometimes a higher value will sound duller. For example a 1meg pot at full (0 ohms series resistance and 1meg to ground) will usually sound brighter due to less load on the pickup, rolled back half way (500k series resistance, 500k resistance to ground) adds a lot of series resistance versus a 500k pot at half way (250k series, 250k to ground).

 

[chumbucket]

Seems to me that Pot values sometimes act counterintuitively - at least to me. I always think of higher value pots giving me more clarity - yes, but also a lot more punch. Seems to depend on the pickups at play. I have a set of PAF humbuckers I am wondering may not sound better with 300k pots after some experimenting.

I have a guitar I installed a set of Humbucker sized P90s in and have been messing with different pot values in differnet positions. I noticed that lower value pots in these 90s seem to actually make the midrange much more full and clear and these have a lot more punch and depth/dynamics than when using higher value pots. It kinda threw me but makes sense that when reducing the top end content making it into the signal chain - you are focusing more on the midrange and low end. With certain pickups - this really wakes them up and in a way - provides much more depth than when loaded with standard 500ks.

I have a single vol/tone setup with 500k pots. Swapped just the vol out for a 250k - wow - pickup is way more 'forward' on the soundstage.

Swapped the tone for a 300k - yeah, this is good stuff right here. Clear, deep, dynamic, fat and full.....

I would have figured for sure I would have dug the higher value pots but man the lower values just woke these things up somehow.

Really enjoying how these little changes shape each guitar. Just experiment with stuff - you honestly do not know what kind of cool surprises you will find.

I prefer how 300k volume pots sound on humbucker guitars with no tone control. It rolls off a little of the clang that I usually roll back on a tone pot.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

No expert here, but a quick search said different pots changes the resonant peak level. 1 pot value doesn't affect all pickups the same because of varying inductance between models.. You are loading the pickup with the pot resistance as you turn it and the frequency roll off effect is not linear like pushing up sliders equally on a GEQ.

Higher pot values are more open vs dark and compressed for lower values.

Sounds like I'm smart. I'm not.. LOL

I love 50s wiring for the way it cleans up and stays bright with hums for cleans and dirty cleans. I just put a single in the neck and the 50s was now WAY to bright so I changed to modern but kept the 500k with no added resistor on the single because they were balanced between each other on full volume.

But now the middle position lacked clarity so I put a push pull pole of the neck so I can go series or parallel. Middle position with single neck and parallel bridge is a great clean sound now.

You're basically right. The pot values don't just control what the highest frequencies are that can pass through, they impact the resonant peak of the pickups as well. A lower pot value will place the resonant peak of the pickup a bit lower on the spectrum.

This is a really crude drawing, but it's sorta kinda what's happening:

 

[Music&Chaos]

No expert here, but a quick search said different pots changes the resonant peak level. 1 pot value doesn't affect all pickups the same because of varying inductance between models.. You are loading the pickup with the pot resistance as you turn it and the frequency roll off effect is not linear like pushing up sliders equally on a GEQ.

Higher pot values are more open vs dark and compressed for lower values.

Sounds like I'm smart. I'm not.. LOL

I love 50s wiring for the way it cleans up and stays bright with hums for cleans and dirty cleans. I just put a single in the neck and the 50s was now WAY to bright so I changed to modern but kept the 500k with no added resistor on the single because they were balanced between each other on full volume.

But now the middle position lacked clarity so I put a push pull pole of the neck so I can go series or parallel. Middle position with single neck and parallel bridge is a great clean sound now.

Yeah I prefer the bouncy feel of 50s, even with singles. I will just mess with pots or caps. Yes, the resonant peak makes sense. The part that is conflicting is this statement that is passed around, and therefore copied by the search:

Higher pot values are more open vs dark and compressed for lower.

This is false. The resonant peak shifting can actually make the soundstage more full and direct to the ear, which actually gives the sound a less compressed/flat sound.

When using too high of a a value/peak, the soundstage becomes flat and lacks balls. You get a ton of clarity, but it is kinda Hi-Fi sounding and feeling.

I was pushing 550k vol and tone pots in my LP for testing and then just straight vol no tone for further testing, etc.

Modern pickups tend to be higher wound and darker/woolier, especially with humbuckers, so higher peaks make sense but with the older, brighter PAF style pups, the peak seems happier and more alive elsewhere.

Great idea to put in a push/pull for series/parallel!!

 

[Music&Chaos]

You're basically right. The pot values don't just control what the highest frequencies are that can pass through, they impact the resonant peak of the pickups as well. A lower pot value will place the resonant peak of the pickup a bit lower on the spectrum.

This is a really crude drawing, but it's sorta kinda what's happening:

I was also using this tool to help train my ear what it sounds like relative to the peak shift.

Lot of fun:

https://mcphersonmusic.nz/en-usd/pages/guitar-signal-lab

 

[stephen sawall]

I tend to prefer modern wiring. I also like split coil and a phase switch. When you first switch to higher or lower it often sounds too bright or dark. After a few days I no longer notice it usually. I also charge the settings on the amps.
Taste changes over time. I was into a more scooped sound. Then a thick raw wall. Followed by a brighter sound. Now a more refined punch and thump.
I usually end up with a 500k. Even with ceramic.

 

[Music&Chaos]

I tend to prefer modern wiring. I also like split coil and a phase switch. When you first switch to higher or lower it often sounds too bright or dark. After a few days I no longer notice it usually. I also charge the settings on the amps.
Taste changes over time. I was into a more scooped sound. Then a thick raw wall. Followed by a brighter sound. Now a more refined punch and thump.
I usually end up with a 500k. Even with ceramic.

I would say 500k works with a lot of pickups in general and are my preference as well.

I find .odern wiring changes the EQ of the signal being sent to the amp. It really depends on what each guitar sounds best with, so I get what you mean.

 

[Music&Chaos]

I have to note that the Humbucker sized P90s I am running are using A4 magnets. Mags also change EQ.

 

[midnightlaundry]

I was also using this tool to help train my ear what it sounds like relative to the peak shift.

Lot of fun:

https://mcphersonmusic.nz/en-usd/pages/guitar-signal-lab

Great tool!

 

[midnightlaundry]

Interesting to see how a cable affect peak. Longer cable is more upper mids and less hash from what I can tell..

 

[Music&Chaos]

Did further testing last night. Guitar is set up with 1 vol/tone with 250k in Vol and 300k in tone with a .022 PIO cap wired 50s style. When I roll back the tone knob to around 250-260k, the peak hits in just the right spot and everything comes alive across the EQ. I turn up the tone all the way and the sound actually becomes slightly flatter, though it is technically brighter in ways, it sounds flat and in ways, the top end snap is actually lessened. I think I am going to swap the pots aorund. Should hit the peak that fits these pickups/magnets best and the extra juice at the vol should push a clear, strong signal. In theory, I think it will work out well. I will test a bit later today and see.

 

[Music&Chaos]

I made a mistake - as the 50s wiring should not have been able to shift the resonance peak in such a way. When looking - I did a hybrid of modern/50s wiring due to the pot I grabbed to throw in (far side lug was grounded instead of center, as is traditional with 50s).

When I swapped it to just straight 50s - the tone did become more clear and in your face but I could no longer shift the peak in the same manner when rolling the tone. I think I prefer the peak shifted down a bit.

I am going to go ahead and 'flip' the pots for testing and report back.

 

[Music&Chaos]

As an update to this thread - I realized that some pots I thought were 300k were actually 525! Oops! No wonder they really goosed it in the high end.

Currently, the guitar is running 250k V/T setup with 3 way blade.

I realized that the H90 variants of their P90 brethren have much more of a 'Strat' character to them.

I decided to lean into this and finally found a use for my Orange drop caps!

I have a thread on here somewhere about cap comparisons and for the most part, I do not like the scooped EQ that Orange drops add.

That being said - a slight scooping of the EQ gives you more of that Strat sound. I played with .022 and .047 values from the 2 Tone Shapers 716Ps I had on hand.

The 0.47 sounds really full and sits just in the right areas. It gave the EQ that scoop I was looking for as well.

I took leads and went through my various caps and even Frankensteined things up by stacking/adding caps together and so on and the Orange Drops did what I was looking for. Lots of vintage cluck goodness with fullness and clarity.

I may try some 300k pots just to hear what they do but this sounds really good as is, and I think I would be happy to just leave it here.

 

[Music&Chaos]

Pic of the Partscaster:

 

[Nigel]

I love .015 Orange Drop caps for stoner toanz on the bridge (think QOTSA etc.) and Clapton "Woman" neck P90 sounds, they just rule for that.

 

[Music&Chaos]

I love .015 Orange Drop caps for stoner toanz on the bridge (think QOTSA etc.) and Clapton "Woman" neck P90 sounds, they just rule for that.

I dig .015s on the neck but prefer PIO most of the time for the warmth they add and balanced EQ they tend to have. Will keep my mind open to Orange drops in the future for sure.

 

[thegame]

Why’d you use the belt of your bathrobe as a guitar strap? And why wouldn’t you need a bathrobe belt anymore, anyway?

 

[Music&Chaos]

Why’d you use the belt of your bathrobe as a guitar strap? And why wouldn’t you need a bathrobe belt anymore, anyway?

I gotta find some use for them - I prefer to leave them off and let the boys flap in the wind.