Question about in ear monitors for gigs and soundman

[tjnx]

akin to being asked impromptu to speak at a strangers funeral then being pantsed as you take the stage

I know this feeling all too well

I think I answered my own question, a quick search for iem comparisons brought up this. I get what you guys are saying about certain iems sounding awful, you'd need to correct for the harshness depending on which ones you get.

My band uses 2 completely different signal paths for the FOH and for our IEM's.

For my guitar, I use a Palmer PDI-09 between my amp and cab, it sounds really good on in-ears and it's non intrusive to the soundguy.
We use a Yamaha EAD10 for the IEM drum sound. Also works really well and again, it doesn't intrude with the house drum mics For bass and vocals we use Radial MS2 Pro XLR splitters. This all goes to our X-Air 18 mixer, which is not connected to the house in any way, shape or form. Our monitoring mix is completely independent and never touches the house board.

Then the soundguy uses whatever mics/DIs he wants for the FOH. That keeps things easy and consistent from show to show and we don't have to ask the house for anything.

Thanks! Was thinking of getting a palmer and the other setup is what we're looking for.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Stage volume has an inversely proportional relationship to everyone's ability to hear, and it turns into a volume war which exactly the opposite of the right answer.

Its also inversely proportional to a good sounding FOH mix. Its amazing how anal guitarists can get about the sound the paint of their guitar makes and not understand that phase cancellation from their amps bleeding into everything is making the whole show a whimpy, fatiguing, comb filtered mess

 

[romanianreaper]

My band uses 2 completely different signal paths for the FOH and for our IEM's.

For my guitar, I use a Palmer PDI-09 between my amp and cab, it sounds really good on in-ears and it's non intrusive to the soundguy.
We use a Yamaha EAD10 for the IEM drum sound. Also works really well and again, it doesn't intrude with the house drum mics For bass and vocals we use Radial MS2 Pro XLR splitters. This all goes to our X-Air 18 mixer, which is not connected to the house in any way, shape or form. Our monitoring mix is completely independent and never touches the house board.

Then the soundguy uses whatever mics/DIs he wants for the FOH. That keeps things easy and consistent from show to show and we don't have to ask the house for anything.

Probably better!

 

[Little B]

OP: Not sure on those that you mentioned. But u definitely want your own mix in your ears.Every f.o.h.& monitor guy does it differently.
When I do small support tours I carry my own in ears and a lot of time my own transmitter pack.Honestly tho,our best senerio is via our ryder; we ask for provisions for both in ears and wedges.And twice last year,on the big arena stages, sure enough,our ears went out and we had to go to all wedges mid set.
I use a minimum of one 4x12,usually 2 or 3 tho,some stage vol too but it's never been an issue at all.I prefer no ears myself,but will adapt to whatever I need to.
I realize you're just getting into this so some of this may not apply.

 

[mentoneman]

because i had so much responsibility resting on my shoulders to install and adapt our stage technically and be able to train the resident and weekly guest musicians to the new in ears system, it was imperative that i did my homework. our stage and small example of the diversity of musical events we hosted:

i was very fortunate to have found a home run of a system with a company that had a very new product at the time. they’re still going strong but just discontinued the 24 ch CS-DUO in Jan 26 to upgrade to a 64 ch version:

https://www.digitalaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Livemix_CS-DUO_DataSheet_v17.pdf

24 channel splitter at the FOH board INPUTS ran CAT5e/6 to the receiving stage distribution matrix box as a hub to connect 8 personal monitor stations on stage in parallel.

each station had an A and B independent stereo monitor mix controller mounted on a mic stand, which allowed two musicians to create their own discreet 24 ch monitor mix, sharing one controller box to reduce cost, and just take turns toggling between their respective A and B mix menus.

killer headphone amp, intercom, ambient mics, panning, master reverb/compression/eq and master volume control for each A/B channel.

subgrouping so for example you can quickly control volume of the overall drum mix or all background vocs in assignable groups in your mixer vs one channel at a time,

ability to copy/paste your dialed in pro mix and share to another rookie band member’s station on stage if they’re struggling…

and even though traditional floor monitors were still a viable option for die hards, the typically double duty FOH/monitor mix engineer (normally me) could breathe a sigh of relief! vocalists loved it immediately, but the loud players took a while to come around.

as a player, i ran my IEM mix into my rocktron rack interface’s “monitor input”.
that let me monitor my stereo rack sound DIRECTLY from my rack headphone out, before it was sent DI to the house, and blend in the rest of the stage monitor mix perfectly. it sounded like i was listening to a pre-recorded/mixed CD at times!

 

[romanianreaper]

I'm the sole guitarist and vocalist so for me, I have to be able to hear two things i'm doing. My buddy is a loud drummer and my other buddy has this huge bass sound. The last gig I was struggling to hear but I think the soundman had a bad cable to my mic'd cab. That was my first gig with the Orange vertical 2x12 so probably didn't have the volume high enough.

 

[romanianreaper]

Let me ask you guys this. My Synergy amp has an XLR out that can run simultaneously with the regular cab setup. Could I run an IEM out of that so I can hear my guitar more clear? I don't really need to hear the other two because they are loud enough.

I'm thinking of it being like a wedge for just my own sound. Just have a bit of guitar bleeding in. We wear earplugs at shows anyway so we don't go deaf.

 

[GJgo]

You may have it backwards- the general stage volume was TOO high. A volume war is always the wrong answer. The best monitoring happens at volumes where you don't need earplugs.

On the XLR out- do you need to hear vocals? I know for me, I need them for queues. In my monitor mix I need mostly me, with some vocal and some other guitar.

We use a Behringer rack with a split snake as well.

 

[romanianreaper]

You may have it backwards- the general stage volume was TOO high. A volume war is always the wrong answer. The best monitoring happens at volumes where you don't need earplugs.

On the XLR out- do you need to hear vocals? I know for me, I need them for queues. In my monitor mix I need mostly me, with some vocal and some other guitar.

We use a Behringer rack with a split snake as well.

We play small places and as a rock/punk band we are fairly loud. I'm not thinking so much about trying to be loud, it is more about trying to get my guitar and vocals directed at me better, in my ears, etc. I probably should just make sure the soundman gets my monitor volume up before we start.

Our last show was probably the worst we've had. I was doing muscle memory for the first song and could hear zero of my guitar.

 

[Rayneman]

I think guitars can sound ok through IEM. For awhile, I felt 100% the opposite, just a shitty high-end no sustain crap sandwich - the proverbial metal zone through a TV kind of thing.

Two things have drastically improved this. 1) decent ear buds. I haven't gone the full mold route, but did buy a pair of 3 driver Ultimate Ears and did some real experimenting with the different tips they provide. At this point, those things go in my ears and come out with a POP! A good seal is very important to get the low end. I also have a set of Westone something-or-others that were very pricey, but those have some way of allowing ambient room sound also enter your ear and that is also very cool. I can't decide which ones I like better, but that was a huge improvement over the shitty Shure buds that came with the PSM Units we use. 2) If you can, utilize some type of app on your phone or tablet that controls your mix. This will work in conjunction with the board. For example we have this Soundcraft 24 channel mixer and either we run it with our guy or it can "snake" into a house system and it becomes simply the monitor mix. Each guy has their device which controls the mix, and on each monitor channel are EQs and such that help shape the sound in your ears. If you can go that route it really helps, too.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Are you guys who handle multiple bands just putting new tips on the earbuds from band to band? I've seen that at some festivals, but not sure how that is or should be from a health/ick perspective. I would happily supply those 20 dollar amazon ones that many people prefer to the Shure 215's, but the wire is shorter compared to 215's so it may not really be an option.

 

[mentoneman]

Are you guys who handle multiple bands just putting new tips on the earbuds from band to band? I've seen that at some festivals, but not sure how that is or should be from a health/ick perspective. I would happily supply those 20 dollar amazon ones that many people prefer to the Shure 215's, but the wire is shorter compared to 215's so it may not really be an option.

resident musicians had their own dedicated shure earbuds we provided initially and could shop for their own if they wanted to upgrade.
guest musicians were told in advance so they could bring their own spendy models but we had backup earbuds & tips if they forgot to bring their own. and floor monitors were still an available option.