Question about in ear monitors for gigs and soundman

[romanianreaper]

I understand how the in ear monitoring works for gigs and had a general question about how that process typically is when involving a sound man, etc.

As.an example, I looked at the XVive system. We have three players in the band. So we each would have this receiver and then can all go to one transmitter with an XLR. So at a show, do you just tell the sound man to plug it in and then what the audience hears thru the P.A. would just go thru that as well?

I have never used an in ear system but we have discussed it because it is hard to hear sometimes and thought just having a cheap in ear solution would be the way to go. If we had any type of issue, we could just do our typical setup. Just wondering if a setup like that is fairly easy?

 

[SFW]

It really depends on the sound guy. In one of my bands, the singer uses am IEM and the sound guy just hooks it up through the monitor rig.

In another band, we are running a whole IEM system. Using a Beringer XR18 Air. We have a splitter in our IEM rack. We feed all the instruments into our IEM rack and then split out to FOH via a snake. The XR18 Air allows us to dial in our own person mix while the FOH does what they want for the venue. Our drummer is an audio engineer and gets off on all the technical shit. I couldn't begin to tell you how it all really works...lol! But I will tell you that it wasn't a cheap solution.

 

[GearGasms]

I understand how the in ear monitoring works for gigs and had a general question about how that process typically is when involving a sound man, etc.

As.an example, I looked at the XVive system. We have three players in the band. So we each would have this receiver and then can all go to one transmitter with an XLR. So at a show, do you just tell the sound man to plug it in and then what the audience hears thru the P.A. would just go thru that as well?

I have never used an in ear system but we have discussed it because it is hard to hear sometimes and thought just having a cheap in ear solution would be the way to go. If we had any type of issue, we could just do our typical setup. Just wondering if a setup like that is fairly easy?

Yes - I have that system with a single receiver and unless there is a separate monitor mixer that he can tap off of, you will just hear what is in the PA. I use mine for when I'm making videos and using modelers or something where the only audio in the room is via my PC monitors, which are not pointed my way when I'm shooting a video. I bought some aftermarket earbuds on Amazon but I still feel like this system really exaggerates the high frequencies. It allows me to hear what I need to hear but I wouldn't try to dial in a tone using only the IEM's.

 

[romanianreaper]

Yeah our last show i couldn't really hear that well and i'm sure the guy just didn't have enough of my tone in the monitor but I figured since we use earplugs anyway, might be worth it to plug our ears and be able to hear the actual sounds coming thru.

 

[GJgo]

I've been running through the gamut of in ears with my new band. Some random notes-

• If everyone shares one channel, each person can't dial their own monitor mix.
• The monitor mix is NOT the audience mix. It's what YOU need to hear. Generally a dry mix as well.
• An easy way to run IEMs is to parallel out your wedge to your transmitter. That way if the in ears go down, your wedge is already going. Plus, in our opinion the moving of air from the wedge is still valuable to the on stage experience.
• All in ears sound different. Some are better for vocals, some instruments etc.. and there is no guidebook. It's an expensive hunt & peck game. I've got 3 or 4 sets on hand & they all do different things better, and I like none of them for guitar tone.
• If you have more than one guitarist it's very hard to hear anything other than bees in the in ears, thus very hard to mentally seperate your sounds from the other guitarist's. This is why in my band the two guitars went back to wedges and everyone else is still using IEMs. None of the 4 types I've bought are worth a shit for guitar tone. (Although, the Shures are killer for vocals) (..and, the ones I got off Amazon are "best" for bass, though none of them really do sub frequencies well)

 

[GJgo]

Yeah our last show i couldn't really hear that well and i'm sure the guy just didn't have enough of my tone in the monitor but I figured since we use earplugs anyway, might be worth it to plug our ears and be able to hear the actual sounds coming thru.

As a guy who likes to gig with my 180W Coliseums, let me share a lesson that's been hard for me to learn. The lower your stage volume is, the better your sound will be at FOH and the easier it will be for everyone to hear what they need to hear*. Stage volume has an inversely proportional relationship to everyone's ability to hear, and it turns into a volume war which exactly the opposite of the right answer.

*I will say though, a silent stage kind of sucks. Having a little real air moving through wedges really helps all band memebers to hear, even when they have IEMs.

 

[BeZo]

It really depends on the sound guy. In one of my bands, the singer uses am IEM and the sound guy just hooks it up through the monitor rig.

In another band, we are running a whole IEM system. Using a Beringer XR18 Air. We have a splitter in our IEM rack. We feed all the instruments into our IEM rack and then split out to FOH via a snake. The XR18 Air allows us to dial in our own person mix while the FOH does what they want for the venue. Our drummer is an audio engineer and gets off on all the technical shit. I couldn't begin to tell you how it all really works...lol! But I will tell you that it wasn't a cheap solution.

It's really the best solution though. We did the same and got the personal monitor mixers through Ultranet and it was great. It put everyone's mix in their own hands, and all I had to do is watch to make sure the inputs were right. Having the same perfect mix at every show was SO FUCKING AWESOME.

Now I just run my vocals through a Rolls PM50S and run my own ears with ambient buds. We play loud enough that it works with full stacks. All I really need is my voice and the rest is just hearing protection. If I could get the whole band on board, I would run an enclosed system and split to FOH again, but 50% commitment isn't enough to drag and set up an extra rack (remember, full stacks).

The part that worries me is having a sound guy run my ears. The benefits of IEMs on your hearing go right out the window if a fader gets bumped, mics feedback, or something gets turned up too loud. Plus, if you tap off the mains, you get a room mix and not a you mix. Far better to drop a grand (or so) and do it yourself.

 

[mentoneman]

the risk of tying your iem mix to the actual house mix is that the eq and mix levels corrections for the room PA may be not so great for your earbuds.

the simplest of mixing boards should always have at least 1 open aux to build a crude but isolated monitor mix from.

shop around before you commit.
earbuds don’t have to be $1k but make sure they have decent bass and fit snuggly. how many times have you seen the biggest stars with unlimited budgets push on their iems during a performance?
shure makes nice sounding $50-100 standard models.

 

[BeZo]

Interesting side note: I'm selling a turn-key wired IEM rack.

https://cleveland.craigslist.org/msg/d/mentor-complete-wired-in-ear-monitor-rig/7905879261.html

I didn't plan on shipping it, so I just have it listed locally. I built this for my sludge band to use, only for half the band to hate it.

 

[mentoneman]

as the AV Director, FOH engineer and musician for a 2500 seat church i had the dubious task of selecting, installing, implementing and teaching the use of said IEM system. getting the buy in from seasoned players who lived a professional career of loud stages and floor monitors wasn’t easy.

i stumbled onto this company while wandering the floor at NAMM and by all accounts it was a true God-send!

https://digitalaudio.com/livemix-pro/

not a cheap system but after shopping around for a while it was the best sounding and fully featured system i found while remaining relatively easy for musicians with little to no technical sophistication to learn and use. take a peek because even though you will probably want a simpler solution it’s feature set may be of interest and food for thought.

 

[DanTravis62]

If you have more than one guitarist it's very hard to hear anything other than bees in the in ears, thus very hard to mentally seperate your sounds from the other guitarist's. This is why in my band the two guitars went back to wedges and everyone else is still using IEMs. None of the 4 types I've bought are worth a shit for guitar tone. (Although, the Shures are killer for vocals) (..and, the ones I got off Amazon are "best" for bass, though none of them really do sub frequencies well)

I just want to add to this, because @romanianreaper unless you are playing "slow ride" and Eagles covers at the local winery, you are going to have distorted guitars, right?

Well distorted guitars sound like complete dog diarrhea in IEMs.

In every band I've been in the last 10 years IEMs were used and thrown out because of this basic truth.

They can work great for drummers or a dedicated vocalist, but they are basically useless for any high T guitar playing.

In some of my bands just the singer uses them, in another band just the drummer uses them, or just the rhythm section, but not a single band I've played in, in over a decade, does everyone in the band use them.

The only situation where I would dedicate the ungodly time and effort to doing the IEM thing again, would be if I had a vegas residency like Wayne Newton or something (the same gig every night) AND it was a forced silent stage.

Otherwise you are wasting your time and money in an obscene way, and you are going to regret it

 

[SFW]

I will agree with guitar not sounding great in the IEMs. Now I never did buy a set of $1k ears but did go through several of the mid-tier sets. I found a set of Shures that worked well enough, but the guitars still sounded harsh. Though it does help if you can adjust the high and low cuts in your system. You just have to trust the FOH has you sounding killer.

Pros: When everyone has their mix dialed in, the entire band played tighter. You can actually hear what everyone else was doing. I loved band practice with them. They were a huge help with writing new material. Once dialed in, your personal mix never changes unless you want it to.

Cons: Guitars sound horrible. Very tinny and harsh. If you have two guitarists in the band, you will get some chorusing going on in the ears. (That used to drive me crazy.) You feel isolated from the audience. I know that they make IEMs that don't completely seal now. I just remember not enjoying the fact that I couldn't hear the crowd or the room. It is expense to do correctly. If you don't buy good components, then you are wasting your money on something that will leave you frustrated.

I personally would have a hard time going back to IEMs. Not for the local bar shows that I usually play.

 

[mentoneman]

everything is relative and you definitely get what you pay for. there is no substitute for quality and experience.

 

[romanianreaper]

Appreciate everyone's input and to be honest, after reading all of your replies, probably is not a good option for my band and should stick to monitors. I think it is more work than we need to out on at our level. Thanks for the input! Good to hear stuff like this, especially with no experience with this stuff.

 

[tjnx]

We were thinking of getting an xr18 + better router and then having each person buy the mixing station app on their phone for ~$15. This allows each band member to log into the mixer and control only their mix and levels. The xr18 will give you 6 separate mono iem mixes.

Like mentioned above you would split signals to your mixer and to front of house.

Its good to hear the feedback on in ears with guitars, I haven't tried it yet. If you get the right digital mixer you can eq your guitars just for your monitoring and add fx and ambience to combat some of the issues with things not sounding so great. The x32 rack is a step up that could give you more fx dsp.

Unless you're at a fancy place I doubt the sound guy will eq a good guitar mix for you, he probably will just send what the mic hears and what sounds good to foh. I can see why this + the drivers in the iems could make the guitars sound like crap

 

[tjnx]

I've also been looking at better earplugs to help with the muddiness at band practice. If you go with monitors this may be of some interest.

This site ranks the best earplugs and has audio samples. It sounds pretty close to the ones I use irl.
https://www.hearadvisor.com/earplug-rankings

 

[mentoneman]

We were thinking of getting an xr18 + better router and then having each person buy the mixing station app on their phone for ~$15. This allows each band member to log into the mixer and control only their mix and levels. The xr18 will give you 6 separate mono iem mixes.

Like mentioned above you would split signals to your mixer and to front of house.

Its good to hear the feedback on in ears with guitars, I haven't tried it yet. If you get the right digital mixer you can eq your guitars just for your monitoring and add fx and ambience to combat some of the issues with things not sounding so great. The x32 rack is a step up that could give you more fx dsp.

Unless you're at a fancy place I doubt the sound guy will eq a good guitar mix for you, he probably will just send what the mic hears and what sounds good to foh. I can see why this + the drivers in the iems could make the guitars sound like crap

i still have the M32-Q app on my phone for the times I played at my son’s church using the X32 iem system.

if you don’t invest time to be fluent with whatever system you select in a band rehearsal state, you will suffer. showtime is not the time to realize you don’t even know what questions to ask to locate controls to troubleshoot the issues you are facing!

 

[tjnx]

i still have the M32-Q app on my phone for the times I played at my son’s church using the X32 iem system.

Did you have any similar tone issues using the x32 + iems? Do you think its more of a driver issue on the iems or the mix?

 

[mentoneman]

Did you have any similar tone issues using the x32 + iems? Do you think its more of a driver issue on the iems or the mix?

it was an apples to hippos case use. not my guitar, running a Helix LT DI which i dial 3 patches on using an amp the night before, barely knew the songs, and unfamiliar with the app which did not have instrument channels labeled! i was lucky to hear anything period so QC was not a luxury i was afforded that day

akin to being asked impromptu to speak at a strangers funeral then being pantsed as you take the stage

 

[GuitarBilly]

My band uses 2 completely different signal paths for the FOH and for our IEM's.

For my guitar, I use a Palmer PDI-09 between my amp and cab, it sounds really good on in-ears and it's non intrusive to the soundguy.
We use a Yamaha EAD10 for the IEM drum sound. Also works really well and again, it doesn't intrude with the house drum mics For bass and vocals we use Radial MS2 Pro XLR splitters. This all goes to our X-Air 18 mixer, which is not connected to the house in any way, shape or form. Our monitoring mix is completely independent and never touches the house board.

Then the soundguy uses whatever mics/DIs he wants for the FOH. That keeps things easy and consistent from show to show and we don't have to ask the house for anything.