RCA5 in Lower DCR Pickup?

[PDC]

Has anyone swapped out the more typical Polished A2 / Polished A5 in a lower output Humbucker with a Rough Cast A5? If so - what were your thoughts? I know at some point I just have to pull the pickup out from the guitar in question and do the magnet swap. But if anyone has some info as to what I might expect, that would help.

I have swapped an RCA5 in a 14k Duncan Custom wind with good results. I have also read good things about the RCA5 in the JB wind. Over time, I have really gravitated toward the lower output pickups in my collection. I really dig the Whole Lotta Humbucker, Pasadena White, and '78. But I have a guitar that leans on the 'bright' side of the tonal spectrum and I am wondering if a Rough A5 would soften some of the top end in these lower output pickups.

 

[harddriver]

I have not done that swap but I think your line of thinking is correct for what you want and what to expect. The only swap I've every done was an NOS early 1980's Duncan RCCeramic to and A-8 and I found I liked the RCceramic more. I don' t know how or why a RCA5 would have those effects but according to Seymour it does. I still prefer the WLH with that A-5 to my Steckel Candy with the A4. Here is how Seymour describes the WLH with the characteristics attributed to the rough cast A5 versus polished.

https://www.seymourduncan.com/singl...z48psv7vsOl33vEFlMA14L62YPgCzbSprbHkkCOjWVUK2

"The recipe for this pickup set begins with a rough cast alnico 5 magnet, plain enamel wire, and Seymour’s unique winding pattern. The bridge is a vintage-hot 8.78k DC resistance and the neck is similarly beefy at 8.20k. The rough cast magnets add warmth and balance so everything sounds bigger."

 

[lespaul6]

subscribed... I have a set of alnico 3 custombuckers coming that I plan on swapping with an alnico 2 and a rc5 to see which one I like better.. sometimes adding more mids with the 2 attenuates the highs more so than a 5 which can be scooped city.

 

[PDC]

"The recipe for this pickup set begins with a rough cast alnico 5 magnet,

I had never read this - that makes perfect sense. I have a couple of WLHs in different guitars and they do not have the same 'bite' as the '78 which is a smooth A2. Hmmm... I think I'm going to just take the plunge and try an RCA5 in my '78. If I don't dig it I can always swap it back.

Great catch on the WLH being a rough cast 5 to begin with!

 

[harddriver]

I had never read this - that makes perfect sense. I have a couple of WLHs in different guitars and they do not have the same 'bite' as the '78 which is a smooth A2. Hmmm... I think I'm going to just take the plunge and try an RCA5 in my '78. If I don't dig it I can always swap it back.

Great catch on the WLH being a rough cast 5 to begin with!

You would think the A-2 would have less bite but that is not the case in my experience, I find the A-2 in the 78 model offsets the Floyd increase in brittleness compared to a standard Fender trem just enough and yet is still aggressive enough for me. I guess there is a reason Seymour is still the pickup guru after all these years.

I find my Steckel Candy to be just a bit underwound for my tastes and application even though MJ did overwind it to 7.8K per my request. I wonder what a 8.8-9K A4 Steckel Candy would sound like??????? All in all my WLH still sounds great and different to a polished A-5 and is a nice option to my 78 model that's in a different guitar.

Do they use roughcast A-5 magnets in JB pickups? Probably the early ones is my guess???

 

[PDC]

The '78 is such a special pickup. The one I have on my shelf is a Custom Shop / No Logo MJ wind. I think rather than swap the A2 out of that one, I'm going to put one of my WLH in this particular guitar and report back.

 

[PDC]

Project took kind of a hard left turn - but I thought I'd post my results.

Guitar is an Alder Warmoth Strat / Maple Neck - Maple Fretboard /single hum / 2-post hipshot trem. Had a Duncan Custom Custom (A2) in there which sounded fine. Rounded off top end, big mids, fairly compressed. Great for legato leads - sort of a 'saxophone' smoothness to leads and rounded off pick attack.

I was going to toss a Duncan '78 in there - but remembered that I had snagged a Custom Shop Frankenstein from a forum member in the classifieds some time ago and it was sitting patiently on my parts shelf. I did a deep dive on the differences between the Custom Shop Frankenstein and the Custom Custom despite their near identical DCR and A2 magnet. I figured this would be a great time to do a back-to-back since I was SO accustomed to how this particular guitar sounded and felt with the Custom Custom.

Yes - the Custom Shop Frankenstein has noticeably more top end without being strident or harsh. Definitely tighter bottom end. Overall, less compression and noticeably more clarity and string separation. It is surprising how different the 2 pickups are in the exact same guitar.

I still dig the Custom Custom, but it is a little too compressed and 'rolled off' sounding in lighter weight guitars - I am betting it would really shine in a Northern Hard Ash guitar or maybe a guitar with a thick maple cap. I can see how the Custom Custom would balance some of the brighter, harder edges that a Floyd Rose can bring to the table.

For now, I am really digging this slap-together Warmoth Partscaster with the Custom Shop Frankenstein!

 

[harddriver]

Project took kind of a hard left turn - but I thought I'd post my results.

Guitar is an Alder Warmoth Strat / Maple Neck - Maple Fretboard /single hum / 2-post hipshot trem. Had a Duncan Custom Custom (A2) in there which sounded fine. Rounded off top end, big mids, fairly compressed. Great for legato leads - sort of a 'saxophone' smoothness to leads and rounded off pick attack.

I was going to toss a Duncan '78 in there - but remembered that I had snagged a Custom Shop Frankenstein from a forum member in the classifieds some time ago and it was sitting patiently on my parts shelf. I did a deep dive on the differences between the Custom Shop Frankenstein and the Custom Custom despite their near identical DCR and A2 magnet. I figured this would be a great time to do a back-to-back since I was SO accustomed to how this particular guitar sounded and felt with the Custom Custom.

Yes - the Custom Shop Frankenstein has noticeably more top end without being strident or harsh. Definitely tighter bottom end. Overall, less compression and noticeably more clarity and string separation. It is surprising how different the 2 pickups are in the exact same guitar.

I still dig the Custom Custom, but it is a little too compressed and 'rolled off' sounding in lighter weight guitars - I am betting it would really shine in a Northern Hard Ash guitar or maybe a guitar with a thick maple cap. I can see how the Custom Custom would balance some of the brighter, harder edges that a Floyd Rose can bring to the table.

For now, I am really digging this slap-together Warmoth Partscaster with the Custom Shop Frankenstein!

Well I guess you went from 9K ish ohms to 14-15K ish ohms............ As long as it does what you want PDC that's all that matters. Seymour wound those Custom Shop Frankenstein p/u's for the $25,000 runs of the Franky, it's nice to hear it is a departure from the standard Custom Custom.

I've only owned one Custom Custom and I found it a compressed, muddy mess with no high end details so It's interesting Seymour wound in much more high end detail which contributes to nice crunchy.grind which I really, really love. I have a Jalen Pinnacle here that is supposed to be like the SD Frankenstein wind you have used here.

Congrats on the NPD PDC, thanks for the feedback!

 

[PDC]

I've only owned one Custom Custom and I found it a compressed, muddy mess with no high end details

I totally get this! It is remarkable how different the exact same pickup can sound in different guitars: body wood / hardware / ??? - so much goes into how everything interacts to get the final 'sound' coming out of the amp. I am really surprised at how soft and 'round' the Custom Custom sounds compared to the Frankenstein.

 

[harddriver]

I totally get this! It is remarkable how different the exact same pickup can sound in different guitars: body wood / hardware / ??? - so much goes into how everything interacts to get the final 'sound' coming out of the amp. I am really surprised at how soft and 'round' the Custom Custom sounds compared to the Frankenstein.

Your description of the Custom Custom is what I heard when it was installed in a Meanstreet Basswood bodied Kramer clone around 2003(Soft, round, smooth, muddy) and I hated that pickup so much and it was such a disappointment to me I swore I'd never buy another.......And I haven't and I probably will not ever..... That guitar was total piece of shit as well, so maybe the Custom Custom works in some guitars but definitely not that one. I don't even remember what I did with that guitar it was such a hunk of junk, I've blocked it from my memory.......

It's nice the hear the SD OG Frankenstein p/u is more balanced and has highs with some grind to it...........I've been tempted to pickup the OG Frankenstein just becasue but I liked how the Jalen Pinnacle sounds in all the clips but I can't help but think ole Seymour has some tricks up his sleeve learned through years of winding.

 

[ChurchHill]

The Custom Custom is actually one of my favorite pickups, but I totally get why some don't like it. I've got it in a couple of guitars, but they all have Floyds. I've tried it in a Les Paul and it was too soft, round, and smooth.

 

[scottosan]

At least between the polished vs rough cast A5s, the difference is negligible. The poles are the 1/8 inch edges that butt up against the screws and slug and it’s the pole pieces that form the magnetic field toward the strings, not the magnet.

 

[ChurchHill]

I might suppose that the differences between rough cast and polished are more likely caused by differences in the composition of the alnico. All things being equal, composition, size, orientation, if that's the only difference, rough vs polished, it's just physical proximity to the pole pieces.

I've found bigger differences between oriented and unoriented A5 and maybe a little more so between short and long. OTOH, if I have an A5 that needs a little more smoothness, I might try an A4 or UOA5 if it wasn't already. But the wire and winding is really where most of this comes from, hence the differences between a Custom Custom and a Frankenstein or an RTM.

Scottosan knows much more about this than I do, so please correct if any of that is off base. The idea of using tension, density, scatter, and coil geometry to vary how a pickup sounds fascinates me, but I've never jumped down that rabbit hole.

 

[BlueParfait]

I haven't done swaps, but I've had a 7.2 and 8.5k RCA5 PAF set

I think they sounded great

 

[Music&Chaos]

I love messing with magnets. I have found that A4s work well in a number of pickup makes - they just do the thing for me.

 

[Music&Chaos]

At least between the polished vs rough cast A5s, the difference is negligible. The poles are the 1/8 inch edges that butt up against the screws and slug and it’s the pole pieces that form the magnetic field toward the strings, not the magnet.

That is cool info.

i have found that a lot of black polepieces do not conduct properly. Must be some of the coating for the color, but I have had to sand them for proper conductivity. This is with various makers as well. Something I think a lot of people dont think of but it does affect the sound in its own way due to changing the field interaction.