Rough Cast vs Polished Magnets

[Music&Chaos]

Hello all,

Took a set of pickups I have had for awhile and swapped some A4 magnets into them. Damn did it take this set to another level! Started as a Blues Heritage set loaded with Rough Cast A5s. I have found that I generally dig the overall EQ of A4s in a lot of pickups and wanted to give it a try in these. These essentially are hot PAFs.

The neck got a polished A4 and it sounds damn perfect. I can't find anything to dislike about it or feel a need to try to balance anything out - that EQ sits right where I want it.

The bridge currently has a RC A4 in there and damn does it sound throaty and full. Really the perfect blues bridge pickup. Lots of sustain and the rough cast adds a certain low mid and more subdued top end. Again, the A4 has more of a bouncy/juicy midrange thing going on that just feels good under the fingers and really fluid with gain. It sounds great, but I am wanting something with just a bit tighter of a low end and bit more attack from the top end - so I will end up trying a Polished one in there and see if that gives me the extra bit of clarity I believe it will. It will reduce of the midrange added from the RC, and present a bit of a clearer and tighter sound profile I believe. We will see how it goes!

Mag swaps are an easy way to possibly improve on something you already thought was great.


Found a video on YT that already kinda confirms my thought on the polished vs rough cast. He only has an A5 in both cariants to compare on that front but they sound different in the ways I pretty much thought they would. Cool.

 

[Nigel]

I have a RC A4 in a Phat Cat neck and want for the polished for more cut/firmer bass.

Great post bro.

 

[Music&Chaos]

I have a RC A4 in a Phat Cat neck and want for the polished for more cut/firmer bass.

Great post bro.

Thanks for sharing! The A4 is so smooth already that unless it is really juiced coming from the pickup, it will probably have best results with a Polished variant.

I have a Road Pro (A4) set from Planet Tone and wonder if they use polished or cast.

Very clear and full and thick at the same time.

That set is also wound hotter than the Blues set I am fiddling with now.

I grabbed my magnets from Philadelphia Luthier Supply just in case you wanted to pick any up. They have a decent selection to choose from if you wanna swap in a different mag for testing.

 

[Shask]

I grabbed my magnets from Philadelphia Luthier Supply just in case you wanted to pick any up. They have a decent selection to choose from if you wanna swap in a different mag for testing.

Funny because I recently grabbed a couple polished A2 and A5 because I want to check them out in my Duncan Custom. I have never swapped magnets before.

 

[Music&Chaos]

Funny because I recently grabbed a couple polished A2 and A5 because I want to check them out in my Duncan Custom. I have never swapped magnets before.

Is that ceramic by default? The A2 will have a softer attack with a woody nature with an extension in the treble range throughout. A5 will be softer than the ceramic in ways but that is part of Alnico dynamics as opposed to ceramic. Poloshed A5s can be a bit bright and a touch scooped but work well in a number of pickups and guitars. Rough casting any magnet seems to add a certain 'smokiness' to the sound and decreases top end, pushes out some mids, but still has a string snap.

Lots of stuff to play with!

 

[mnemonic]

One thing to keep in mind with reviews of magnet swaps is that apparently not all alnico V is the same, (and II, III, IV), I remember watching interviews with various boutique winders in the past, and a lot of them lamented having to custom order multiple different type/composition of alnico IV or alnico V magnet for their pickup range.

Apparently magnet size also factors into things.

A while back I swapped some alnico IV’s into an some alnico II PAF-alike pickups I have in my LP, alnico II were really good and gained up very well (to my surprise), but alnico IV was a bit more ‘rocky’ and more ‘familiar’ for me.

I get my magnets from cermag in the U.K. (since I’m in the U.K.). Cheap and great selection.

 

[Music&Chaos]

One thing to keep in mind with reviews of magnet swaps is that apparently not all alnico V is the same, (and II, III, IV), I remember watching interviews with various boutique winders in the past, and a lot of them lamented having to custom order multiple different type/composition of alnico IV or alnico V magnet for their pickup range.

Apparently magnet size also factors into things.

A while back I swapped some alnico IV’s into an some alnico II PAF-alike pickups I have in my LP, alnico II were really good and gained up very well (to my surprise), but alnico IV was a bit more ‘rocky’ and more ‘familiar’ for me.

I get my magnets from cermag in the U.K. (since I’m in the U.K.). Cheap and great selection.

Great point!!

Did you swap in Polished or RC A4s?

 

[Shask]

Is that ceramic by default? The A2 will have a softer attack with a woody nature with an extension in the treble range throughout. A5 will be softer than the ceramic in ways but that is part of Alnico dynamics as opposed to ceramic. Poloshed A5s can be a bit bright and a touch scooped but work well in a number of pickups and guitars. Rough casting any magnet seems to add a certain 'smokiness' to the sound and decreases top end, pushes out some mids, but still has a string snap.

Lots of stuff to play with!

Yeah, it is ceramic. Duncan has about 4 models where the only difference is the magnet. It is a common mod. The A2 is supposed to be similar to the Wolfgang pickups.

I read that polished was what Duncan used, which is why I bought those.

 

[Music&Chaos]

Yeah, it is ceramic. Duncan has about 4 models where the only difference is the magnet. It is a common mod. The A2 is supposed to be similar to the Wolfgang pickups.

I read that polished was what Duncan used, which is why I bought those.

I have a set from Planet Tone that replicates the sound EVH had in 'Pound cake'. They also use A2s. I am thinking of swapping something else into them for testing.

They are great pickups and get that sound, but different mags would be too fun to try so I am going to start swapping.

 

[Nigel]

Is that ceramic by default? The A2 will have a softer attack with a woody nature with an extension in the treble range throughout. A5 will be softer than the ceramic in ways but that is part of Alnico dynamics as opposed to ceramic. Poloshed A5s can be a bit bright and a touch scooped but work well in a number of pickups and guitars. Rough casting any magnet seems to add a certain 'smokiness' to the sound and decreases top end, pushes out some mids, but still has a string snap.

Lots of stuff to play with!

I wanna try a rough cast A5 in my JB’s. Might be able to get away with going back to Slinky’s from pure nickel strings.

 

[Music&Chaos]

I wanna try a rough cast A5 in my JB’s. Might be able to get away with going back to Slinky’s from pure nickel strings.

Definitely would add some smokiness to the character and ease it up a bit in the forwardness of the string/note attack and drop the treble presence.

 

[Shask]

I have a set from Planet Tone that replicates the sound EVH had in 'Pound cake'. They also use A2s. I am thinking of swapping something else into them for testing.

They are great pickups and get that sound, but different mags would be too fun to try so I am going to start swapping.

The current EVH Wolfgang pickups have A2, but the Peavey versions were A5. I thought about trying that since people said those were more aggressive, and the fact you can't easily change the pickups in those guitars.

 

[mnemonic]

Great point!!

Did you swap in Polished or RC A4s?

Rough cast. The A-II’s I took out were also rough cast.

 

[Music&Chaos]

Rough cast. The A-II’s I took out were also rough cast.

Those are extra smooth sounding.

 

[Music&Chaos]

As far as my Blues heritage set - makes sense why they have a rough cast in the bridge. Too jangly without it. The A4 is fun in there but isn't wired quite hot enough, but nearly is. The A5 rough cast went back in and that makes the most sense in there.

Will probably pop the RC A5 back in the neck and just sell the set instead of making it into something it isnt. Blues is in the name for a reason lol they are smokey and bitey and punchy with the RC A5s, so back in they will go. I understand that certain bassy sound is due to the RC and not the pickup or wiring or something now.

 

[scottosan]

Is that ceramic by default? The A2 will have a softer attack with a woody nature with an extension in the treble range throughout. A5 will be softer than the ceramic in ways but that is part of Alnico dynamics as opposed to ceramic. Poloshed A5s can be a bit bright and a touch scooped but work well in a number of pickups and guitars. Rough casting any magnet seems to add a certain 'smokiness' to the sound and decreases top end, pushes out some mids, but still has a string snap.

Lots of stuff to play with!

The difference between polished and rough is far more psychoacoustic than objective. The pole of a bar magnet is the narrowest edges not the rougher wide part. In most cases that narrow edge has also been smoothed flat. It's the non-pole side that are left rough. these narrow edges mage contact the keeper or slugs and the magnetic field is transferred up from the pole pieces. The string facing field is not created by the rough surfaces of the magnet. Aside from the coil specs, the magnetic strength and the ferric content (through inductance) of the magnet are what influences tone. Theres so much misinformation on the web. A rough cast from the same foundry is going to sound the same as a polished. They will have the same magnetic properties in that the difference in transference to the pole pieces is going to be nominal. As long is the transference is similar, it's the shape of the pole pieces that create the magnetic field. If you want to argue that a smooth slug will have a different field than a bullseye tooled slug, that legitimate, but all other things the same, you're not going to tell the difference in a blind A/B test from 2 magnets, one smooth one rough, with full charge from the same foundry. If you buy a magnet from mojotone and swap it with a Duncan magnet of different cast, the differences are going to in the difference in foundry composition.

You aren't going to "push" mids AND remove top end (add smokiness) with the cast difference of the same magnet. You are only going to add smokiness by either adding capacitance or shifting the resonant peak down. You can only shift down the resonant peak by adding ferric content to the magnet to increase inductance. This is why A2 is softer that A5. Replacing a pickup that has an A5 magnet with and A2 magnet will increase the inductance of the coil and lower the pickups resonant peak creating softer highs.

I think most of the confusion comes from people swapping an UOA5 with a A5 smooth. They arent the same the UOA5 is weaker because it is isotropic vs anisotropic for standard A5 meaning the pole can be charged in any direction, so its pull is not as focused. A2 is also isotropic

 

[rsm]

neodymium?


https://www.q-tuner.com/

 

[Music&Chaos]

The difference between polished and rough is far more psychoacoustic than objective. The pole of a bar magnet is the narrowest edges not the rougher wide part. In most cases that narrow edge has also been smoothed flat. It's the non-pole side that are left rough. these narrow edges mage contact the keeper or slugs and the magnetic field is transferred up from the pole pieces. The string facing field is not created by the rough surfaces of the magnet. Aside from the coil specs, the magnetic strength and the ferric content (through inductance) of the magnet are what influences tone. Theres so much misinformation on the web. A rough cast from the same foundry is going to sound the same as a polished. They will have the same magnetic properties in that the difference in transference to the pole pieces is going to be nominal. As long is the transference is similar, it's the shape of the pole pieces that create the magnetic field. If you want to argue that a smooth slug will have a different field than a bullseye tooled slug, that legitimate, but all other things the same, you're not going to tell the difference in a blind A/B test from 2 magnets, one smooth one rough, with full charge from the same foundry. If you buy a magnet from mojotone and swap it with a Duncan magnet of different cast, the differences are going to in the difference in foundry composition.

You aren't going to "push" mids AND remove top end (add smokiness) with the cast difference of the same magnet. You are only going to add smokiness by either adding capacitance or shifting the resonant peak down. You can only shift down the resonant peak by adding ferric content to the magnet to increase inductance. This is why A2 is softer that A5. Replacing a pickup that has an A5 magnet with and A2 magnet will increase the inductance of the coil and lower the pickups resonant peak creating softer highs.

I think most of the confusion comes from people swapping an UOA5 with a A5 smooth. They arent the same the UOA5 is weaker because it is isotropic vs anisotropic for standard A5 meaning the pole can be charged in any direction, so its pull is not as focused. A2 is also isotropic

I have some rough cast that are rough on top , bottom and sides and some that are just rough on top and bottom. My rough cast A4s sound different than the polished ones for sure - but the RC are rough all over. I can see the actual magnet looks ever so slightly smaller from the 'rough casting'. Pushing more midrange in any sound as opposed to extra bass and treble 'smoothes' the top end to the ear, which may be the 'reduction' that is heard - just a rounding. Who knows, it is definitely there though. Magnetism runs the universe, it is some odd stuff. Some things don't equate the way you always want to of course, that is the way it goes in life.

Are you going to start building pickups again?

I have wanted a Whiskey since I first heard it and then you stopped it seems. That pickup uses a short roughcast ALNICO 5 - what do you find that does ot the top end compared to a polished variant? Is that in part what gives that pickup the throaty haracter I heard? I may grab some to try if I can find any similar enough.

 

[Music&Chaos]

I noticed in a number of the pickups that I find interesting like the Whiskey are higher DC with a short rough cast magnet. I am guessing the decreased field gives that more lush sound but can be kinda weak sounding without a lot of push but you up the output and all of that turns into thick harmonics and juicy goodness. Interesting. If I could, when I swap in the RC A4 into this pickup, I would wind it hotter, it would work very well. I am going to start wiring them when I can as well myself for only myself to play with and experiment, not as a business or anything. Just think it would be a lot of fun.

 

[scottosan]

I noticed in a number of the pickups that I find interesting like the Whiskey are higher DC with a short rough cast magnet. I am guessing the decreased field gives that more lush sound but can be kinda weak sounding without a lot of push but you up the output and all of that turns into thick harmonics and juicy goodness. Interesting. If I could, when I swap in the RC A4 into this pickup, I would wind it hotter, it would work very well. I am going to start wiring them when I can as well myself for only myself to play with and experiment, not as a business or anything. Just think it would be a lot of fun.

I started using the 2.36 magnet earlier than the Whiskey. It was my standard magnet for my bridge pickups starting with the Sunset Strip, Roxy, then the Whiskey. It does have a decrease in gauss at the pole pieces which would result in slightly less highs and lows and the lows would be tighter. But, the driving factor for the use of that magnet was from the rabbit hole of reading that EVH famed PAF was from a 1961 ES335. By 1961 Gibson had standardized and was using the 2.36 A5. My earlier pickups were wound with higher tension and to be able to facilitate tight high gain tones and quick response. By time I got to the whiskey was when I really started deviating from traditional winding patterns and tension. The Whiskey was really the first pickup where I got back to some of my favorite tones when I favored the more relaxed feel under the fingers and thicker single note tones. As a result, the whiskey has a much lower spike than other high output pickups. It does well in bright guitars light maple capped Les Pauls and bolt on alder or ash body guitars. Can do rhythm well enough but i put more focus on lead tones with this pickup.