Recording guitars - Home studio with upgraded professional monitors

[HellraiserJohnny]

I recently purchased a pair of Kali LP-8 studio monitors and this being my first pair of professional monitors, I now hear all my past mixes very differently. For the last 20 or so years I have used high end consumer speakers (JBL, Klipsch, Infinity etc.). Even though those were advertised as Studio or Reference monitors, I now can hear the bass and guitar tones are, let's just say, very different.

So now I'm listening to a lot of guitar heads and IR demos and I am finding that the tones are, to me, very nasal and high in the mids than I am used to hearing. In the past I have always wanted the sum of the tracks I cut to have a good tight bottom and some thump to them. Now with real studio monitors I am hearing my tracks, like the demos I hear on-line, are far more mid-range and less deep and powerful.

I have always made sure that in the end; my guitars don't step on the bass track too much and that the bass adds punch to the guitars and that the bass track doesn't step on the kick drums punch. Now it seems all out of balance and it's a bit frustrating to thing I have to go back over years of work and re-cut all my high gain tracks and re-mix everything. I've tried EQ and a little compression and it improves the tones but it seems like I just screwed myself thinking that the consumer speakers I used were not giving me an accurate account of what was initially recorded.

I know that guitar tones are very subjective and everyone is a little different so I won't ask what tone or amps or IR's to use but more of a question if anyone else has any input on recording their tracks and what you folks look for when recording guitars. My music is mostly focused on modern rock but I also write ballads with clean guitar tracks and acoustic. I am heavy in the sense of rhythmically heavy and melodic, I am by no means "Metal". I do blend clean guitar parts with high gain tracks on most songs on certain parts and blend high gain passages together in most songs as well.

It may be that I just have to re-train my ears to listen to the tracks and see how they blend on the new monitors. I am also thinking of using the old Klipsch R-50m's as a test refernce for the mix after I'm happy with what the LP-8s give me to see if the balance of the tracks translates to those speakers well.

Would really like some input. Thanks!

 

[DanTravis62]

It sounds (to me) like you are expecting raw guitar tracks on real monitors to sound like the "full mix" sound on consumer grade speakers. (as in, full, rich, pleasant to listen to) And you finally hear them for what they really are, frequency wise.

They are all going to, inherently, sound nasal and like there are too many high mids - that's the frequency range they are supposed to fill out.

Whether it actually is too much high midrange and cut, is of course, completely subjective. But maybe if you could give us some comparison clips we could hear what you're talking about?

 

[GearGasms]

I can't say what I'm looking for specifically when recording an electric track other than it needs to sit in the mix and support the song when all is said and done. I will say that now that I've learned more about it, the solo of a track with guitar on it by itself quite often sounds awful. For example it took me years to understand that bad ass sound on it's own often doesn't fit in the mix. That's one big reason I record direct and use Amplitube or PodFarm for the tracks. It gives me more options at mixing. And even on a mic with acoustics, I had to learn to carve up that glorious Taylor tone by scooping the mids like I was mixing Metallica. But it gave room for the vocal and in the final mix actually sounds better.

 

[RaceU4her]

It took me years to really learn my monitors to the point I can now get about 90% there on the first mix and have it translate well to all my listening devices. Lately I have been using my iphone of all things as my first “translator” as I find if it’s balanced and even on those little speakers, it generally sounds great in my truck, ear buds, home system and wherever else I listen. Usually it’s just some minor low mid tweaks from there

As for guitar tones, I just look at them as another part of the mix that are no more important than any other instrument, and there’s too many variables with tempo, tunings, what is going on with the bass to have any rules. I hardly ever solo my guitars anymore when working on a mix cause I’d end up tweaking the guitars to sound good, not the mix. If there’s a bridge or something in a song where there’s a solo guitar part, I’ll just record another track with a more pleasing solo tone or maybe automate some eq or whatever. Mostly in general though, guitars are always a little thinner and brighter than I would think would work, especially with the faster metal I usually play

 

[stratjacket]

Studio Monitors really very linear in price vs performance, you get what you pay for. As long as you know your monitors and your room, you can get good mixes though. Listening to tons of reference music that you are very familiar with will help in getting to know your new monitors. They will hype and cut different frequencies

 

[Chubtone]

It is going to take a while to learn how those new speakers actually sound. You need to listen to all your favorite artists through those speakers over and over again. Get completely dialed in to them. And when it comes down to it, it doesn't really matter how things sound on your home studio monitors because no one else will ever hear your music through your home studio monitors. The job of those studio monitors is so you can mix your music so it sounds good everywhere else besides your studio.

 

[Faded Abyss]

How are your speakers set up in the room? Up against a wall? Are they set up symmetrically (Use a laser to measure, not a tape) 30 degree toe in? Is the room symmetrical? Do the dimensions of your room have equal/square numbers which would make room modes stack top of each other (very bad) The farther away you are from the speakers, the more you are hearing the rooms influence which will color the sound massively. You’re probably better off using headphones. A lot of people listen very close and call it “ultra near-field”. You should look at listening distances for your speakers to see if they work out for ultra near-field

The speakers will be fine but you need to get your speaker position and listening position sorted and treat first reflection points. Then measure your room using REW software and and look at the decay times, distortion, estimated time curve, group delay, phase, waterfall plots, spectrogram etc. there are some good tutorials on YouTube

If you have deep pockets you can get speakers with cardioid bass respond and it would help marginally. Bass comes out of the speaker Omni-directional and interacts with boundaries and comb filters the direct sound of the speaker. A million dollar speaker in a room with poor acoustics will sound like a $200 speaker

 

[HellraiserJohnny]

Thanks for the feedback. I agree that I'm just going to have to get used to the new boxes. I spent a few hours on a mix last night and it seems like the mix now sounds the same (balance between instruments). I also noticed I had to turn the guitar tracks up and re-balance the different tracks, this seems to be consistant in all of my old mixes. The only difference now is the amount of bottom changed with each systems capabilities. Even though the bass and kick were deeper, the track had the same balance. The bass and kick did not dominate the mix because of better range. Thats what I was running into with the old speakers. This is heading in the direction I was looking for when I made the purchase. Still testing and listening. I take the mix to other systems after I think the mix is done to see how it sounds.

Here is the mix: New Mix

 

[CoreyW]

It is going to take a while to learn how those new speakers actually sound. You need to listen to all your favorite artists through those speakers over and over again. Get completely dialed in to them. And when it comes down to it, it doesn't really matter how things sound on your home studio monitors because no one else will ever hear your music through your home studio monitors. The job of those studio monitors is so you can mix your music so it sounds good everywhere else besides your studio.

This can not be emphasized enough.

New speakers need to be broken in, a long weekend of loud listening will do wonders.

You need to also spend a lot of time just sitting and listening to them, play your favorite albums through them, and change the volume levels. You have to learn what those speakers are doing.

Reference tracks are a huge help in getting your room dialed in. Learn what is emphasized on your speakers and compare it with ear buds or a phone or car speakers, so you know what the other sources will sound like.

 

[RaceU4her]

I have a huge A/B list I call it with all my favorite productions, I constantly compare when I’m tweaking mixes

 

[Faded Abyss]

I have a huge A/B list I call it with all my favorite productions, I constantly compare when I’m tweaking mixes

curious what technique you use to A/B. Have you tried the Metric AB plugin? It’s my go-to

 

[RaceU4her]

curious what technique you use to A/B. Have you tried the Metric AB plugin? It’s my go-to

im just listening to music and comparing. i have ozone10 that has some eq match thing where you can load songs in and it supposedly matches your mix to that, but it always sounds like shit to me and just seams like cheating. im pretty primitive with plugins, i always tried to keep it as if i was in a real studio, SSL channel and comp, 1176, la2a, api eq's, pultec, fairchild comp.. i never got into the fabfilter stuff or any of that, even ozone i really only use for limiting now.

 

[nightlight]

With studio monitors, a good rule of thumb is that none of them are exactly flat. There are always some notches and bumps that effect what you are hearing, over and above the quirks of your room. Just keep hearing and mixing and mastering and don't be afraid to keep repeating when you hear inconsistencies on other speakers. Eventually you'll learn the character of the speakers and room and your mixing skills will improve from there.

 

[Faded Abyss]

im just listening to music and comparing. i have ozone10 that has some eq match thing where you can load songs in and it supposedly matches your mix to that, but it always sounds like shit to me and just seams like cheating. im pretty primitive with plugins, i always tried to keep it as if i was in a real studio, SSL channel and comp, 1176, la2a, api eq's, pultec, fairchild comp.. i never got into the fabfilter stuff or any of that, even ozone i really only use for limiting now.

I have a similar outlook. The new plugins coming out every week has driven me crazy. I try to wait until Black Friday to buy the select few I will do free trials with.

The metric A/B plugin is utility only. It’s invaluable to me because I can go back and forth to certain parts of other songs in a split second which doable without it but tough to pull off

 

[ultimatemetalguitartones]

For everyone using studio monitors in a non calibrated room I recommend getting sound ID Reference by Sonarworks. It's a game changer

 

[stratjacket]

For everyone using studio monitors in a non calibrated room I recommend getting sound ID Reference by Sonarworks. It's a game changer

I have an Apollo x6 interface that I’ve had for years. UA partnered with Sonarworks to have it embedded in the Apollo so there’s no switching it on and off when bouncing tracks it anything, it’s just always on. There was a cost to add it and it also works with my Sub to balance out the room. Totally worth it. I also have a treated room, it sounds amazing.