Remember the Kramer Nightswan?

[yngzaklynch]

Well looks like it's being made again by Buddy Blaze
https://cgi.ebay.com/Buddy-Blaze-2009-NA ... 634.c0.m14

 

[Digital Jams]

He has been making them for several years, your boys at Funky Monky carry them or at least last year did.

Price is nuts.

 

[yngzaklynch]

I can't see how BB has come up with a hefty price like this???? It's a fairly basic guitar isn't it?

 

[Digital Jams]

I have seen some of his models for well over $3000.

I think he believes his name will sell them, imo not going to happen.

 

[jack butler]

$2300.00 with a blem, take another hit buddy.

 

[stanbog]

jesus, that price =

 

[vultures]

Price is nuts.

PRICED TO MOVE

 

[JeF]

I've never heard of Buddy Blaze. What's his history ?

 

[Digital Jams]

I've never heard of Buddy Blaze. What's his history ?

He created the first Nightswan for Vivian Cambell and Kramer took the design over, the first promo pic was Buddy's guitar Vivian was holding.

 

[Chubtone]

He created the first Nightswan for Vivian Cambell and Kramer took the design over, the first promo pic was Buddy's guitar Vivian was holding.

I think that is his entire claim to fame. The price they want for his stuff is wacky. Please man. You can buy Tom Anderson's, Suhr's, custom shop Charvels and several other well known custom guitars that will still be worth something the day after you buy them. Unlike these Blaze's. And I say this as a fan. I dig the Kramer Nightswan. Original ones are $600-1000 so I'm not sure the real world is ready to spend $3k on a new one.

 

[ranalli]

Seems a bit over-priced IMO. It's cool to have a short-scale super-strat but again....I think that's a bit much.

Anyone remember the Kramer Liberty:

Now that was a cool guitar.....oh and the Stagemasters were cool too.

 

[Little B]

You really need to go the kramer website, or a fansite..theyre really detailed about the nightswans history( which isnt much).I bought one new @ thouroughbred music back in the day; shouldve kept it..hindsight....There was also a nightswan II.same guitar except hum,sing,sing coil..So far the new nightswans ive seen dont quite resemble the old ones at all.Buddy Blaze is over seas making them,...but since Vivian C. dropped them,they lost their appeal to a lot people.He now uses Tom A's or Pauls

 

[King Guitar]

Seems a bit over-priced IMO. It's cool to have a short-scale super-strat but again....I think that's a bit much.

Anyone remember the Kramer Liberty:

Now that was a cool guitar.....oh and the Stagemasters were cool too.

Remember the Kramer Liberty? Great Guitar, I rock it...

 

[ranalli]

Seems a bit over-priced IMO. It's cool to have a short-scale super-strat but again....I think that's a bit much.

Anyone remember the Kramer Liberty:

Now that was a cool guitar.....oh and the Stagemasters were cool too.

Remember the Kramer Liberty? Great Guitar, I rock it...

That's a beautiful guitar....I always thought they were like the Les Paul Customs of Super-strats if that makes any sense.


What is the control knob layout on that? Is the scale 25 1/2"?

 

[guitarnate2000]

I've never heard of Buddy Blaze. What's his history ?

I think he is most famous for the mods he did to the Dean ML that Dimebag played.. in fact.. the Dean ML sported the famous Lightning bolt paint job before the Kramer Night Swan sported it...


I dig Vivian Campbell but here in Texas, thats what Buddy is famous for... and he was an awesome guy to bring your guitar to for mods and whatnot..

 

[grilledchickensalad]

Apologies, if needed, for the necro bump. Having dealt with this company, I figured it best to share the experience. My experiences are based on doing business with the company, hearing stories from the persons own mouth and, most recently, conversing with other customers.

The Nightswan is a great guitar. I am the original owner of one and it's great. If you can get one, I'd encourage it. I was told the original was made from Warmoth parts. It's interesting that you can go to warmoth and pretty much get a similar neck, down to the ping pong inlays. I was also led to believe that there was a bit of interplay between Kramer and Vivian and Floyd Rose and Blaze so that Vivian would only go to Kramer if Blaze went with him and that they (Campbell and Blaze) retained the rights to the name and design. There was an interest in Warmoth supplying the parts, but ESP was able to provide the parts for less. I was also told that due to issues with not getting payments for units sold and how the Kramer ProAxe was pretty much a nightswan rip-off, Vivian left Kramer and stopped playing the guitar.

I don't know, because I wasn't there, but someone did tell me that Blaze admitted a guy at Speir Music was behind the Lightning Storm graphic. Once again, simply what I heard. that being the case, Dimes Dean From Hell is pretty much a guitar someone painted, Blaze put a Floyd on and was given back to Dime. Just as the Nightswan is pretty much a guitar based on a prototype built from parts from Warmoth, although the body was re-shaped a little for the extreme cutaways. If you look at the Lightning Storm graphic on the Kramer, done by guys like Kline, and the graphic done on Shredder is the past several years, and the same graphic on the DFH and Vivians own model, it is my opinion that the Blaze finish is the odd man out. Which is to say, it supports the things I've been told.

I have to support the opinions on the pricing. I see that and hear that a lot. Even people that know the guy has said the same. I'm not saying that I'd spend $4000 on a Suhr or an Anderson, but I can say that based on the attention to detail that you get from a Suhr or an Anderson that they are closer to being warranted. I know guys that get their wood from the same place and they actually build more by hand than the CNC method used by Blaze and the cost is significantly less. So I would lean toward the notion that it is someone relying on their name and something they did over 25 years ago.

There are a few headstock designs to mention and they are not terribly original or functional. The one with the notch looks like an Ibanez. I think there a banana head with a notch, which almost invokes the Peavy V series. There are a couple of variations of the regular banana head, one with a slant similar to the Nightswan and one with a slant pitched a little more severe. Both are known to not be terribly functional when it comes to the high E string, as the string path just doesn't go under the string tree very well. This causes problems ranging from stringing it up...to it not keeping the string down in the nut.

Some guys get the guitars and like them. I won't buy another, mainly due to QC issues that should have never made it out of the shop and also due to the grief endured to address it and to get it resolved. Other guys I know have just stopped buying them with one guy selling his to get the entire hassle of dealing with it out of his system. Another dude sold most of his, keeping at least one that he put a lot of himself in to.

The actual Nightswan really seems to be the way to go. Even in the current market, you are going to pay a LOT less. Worse case would be that if it needs some work, and you would still come out ahead. If you want a fancy graphic, you can look up a guy like Dennis Kline online and after apying for a real Kline on a real Kramer you would even still be coming out ahead.

 

[Mesa\Kramer]

 

[Deleted member 13074]

Looks like your avatar

 

[thiswaythatway]

Apologies, if needed, for the necro bump. Having dealt with this company, I figured it best to share the experience. My experiences are based on doing business with the company, hearing stories from the persons own mouth and, most recently, conversing with other customers.

The Nightswan is a great guitar. I am the original owner of one and it's great. If you can get one, I'd encourage it. I was told the original was made from Warmoth parts. It's interesting that you can go to warmoth and pretty much get a similar neck, down to the ping pong inlays. I was also led to believe that there was a bit of interplay between Kramer and Vivian and Floyd Rose and Blaze so that Vivian would only go to Kramer if Blaze went with him and that they (Campbell and Blaze) retained the rights to the name and design. There was an interest in Warmoth supplying the parts, but ESP was able to provide the parts for less. I was also told that due to issues with not getting payments for units sold and how the Kramer ProAxe was pretty much a nightswan rip-off, Vivian left Kramer and stopped playing the guitar.

I don't know, because I wasn't there, but someone did tell me that Blaze admitted a guy at Speir Music was behind the Lightning Storm graphic. Once again, simply what I heard. that being the case, Dimes Dean From Hell is pretty much a guitar someone painted, Blaze put a Floyd on and was given back to Dime. Just as the Nightswan is pretty much a guitar based on a prototype built from parts from Warmoth, although the body was re-shaped a little for the extreme cutaways. If you look at the Lightning Storm graphic on the Kramer, done by guys like Kline, and the graphic done on Shredder is the past several years, and the same graphic on the DFH and Vivians own model, it is my opinion that the Blaze finish is the odd man out. Which is to say, it supports the things I've been told.

I have to support the opinions on the pricing. I see that and hear that a lot. Even people that know the guy has said the same. I'm not saying that I'd spend $4000 on a Suhr or an Anderson, but I can say that based on the attention to detail that you get from a Suhr or an Anderson that they are closer to being warranted. I know guys that get their wood from the same place and they actually build more by hand than the CNC method used by Blaze and the cost is significantly less. So I would lean toward the notion that it is someone relying on their name and something they did over 25 years ago.

There are a few headstock designs to mention and they are not terribly original or functional. The one with the notch looks like an Ibanez. I think there a banana head with a notch, which almost invokes the Peavy V series. There are a couple of variations of the regular banana head, one with a slant similar to the Nightswan and one with a slant pitched a little more severe. Both are known to not be terribly functional when it comes to the high E string, as the string path just doesn't go under the string tree very well. This causes problems ranging from stringing it up...to it not keeping the string down in the nut.

Some guys get the guitars and like them. I won't buy another, mainly due to QC issues that should have never made it out of the shop and also due to the grief endured to address it and to get it resolved. Other guys I know have just stopped buying them with one guy selling his to get the entire hassle of dealing with it out of his system. Another dude sold most of his, keeping at least one that he put a lot of himself in to.

The actual Nightswan really seems to be the way to go. Even in the current market, you are going to pay a LOT less. Worse case would be that if it needs some work, and you would still come out ahead. If you want a fancy graphic, you can look up a guy like Dennis Kline online and after apying for a real Kline on a real Kramer you would even still be coming out ahead.

The Nightswans were made from ESP parts. The one's the pros played were usually made from Warmoth parts and by 2 or 3 guys. I worked at the Neptune factory back in 1989 for about 6 months or so.