School me on brutal playing and getting that tone

[ke2]

So it sounds like a 7 string would be a great thing to get. Any affordable 7's out there that are worth a salt?

Don't have any real particuliar band in mind, but that tight technical chugga sound, clean, crisp, deep. Both my guitars have trems on them so I haven't ventured past drop D.

Scott (Digital Jams) is selling his Schecter in the classifieds.
More than worth its salt for the price.


viewtopic.php?f=6&t=73982

 

[petejt]

This

Yep he's right, it's all in the pick attack. Also where along you hit the string and the palm muting.
The angled pick attack adds that 'harsh' harmonics that give that aggressive heavy edge to the sound.


Haha that was funny at the end- so bloody true! It encapsulates all these silly gear forums and lame YouTube guitar videos!




And about the James Hetfield technique........watch from 1:27-1:32->

 

[Heritage Softail]

I think people get to caught up in that mentality that you have to tune down to sound brutal.

Some of the most brutal stuff I have ever heard was in Eb.

Exactly.

 

[Johnny LaRue]

I think people get to caught up in that mentality that you have to tune down to sound brutal.

Some of the most brutal stuff I have ever heard was in Eb.

Yes. Can't tell me early Metalica doesn't kick ass, all in standard tuning. It's all in the attitude!
And, standard or 1/2 step down, just sounds better with high gain. You can hear everything going on.

 

[Mailman1971]

I think people get to caught up in that mentality that you have to tune down to sound brutal.

Some of the most brutal stuff I have ever heard was in Eb.

We play alot of Brutal stuff and the lowest I ever tune is Drop D on the low E string.
More in how you play it and attack the song like Juggernaut mentioned.

 

[Code001]

I think people get to caught up in that mentality that you have to tune down to sound brutal.

Some of the most brutal stuff I have ever heard was in Eb.

Yes. Can't tell me early Metalica doesn't kick ass, all in standard tuning. It's all in the attitude!
And, standard or 1/2 step down, just sounds better with high gain. You can hear everything going on.

Metallica is not as brutal as Cannibal Corpse or Suffocation. Period. You may prefer the music, but it's not as brutal.

 

[Mailman1971]

I think people get to caught up in that mentality that you have to tune down to sound brutal.

Some of the most brutal stuff I have ever heard was in Eb.

Yes. Can't tell me early Metalica doesn't kick ass, all in standard tuning. It's all in the attitude!
And, standard or 1/2 step down, just sounds better with high gain. You can hear everything going on.

Metallica is not as brutal as Cannibal Corpse or Suffocation. Period. You may prefer the music, but it's not as brutal.

Not even in the same ballpark.
Love me some older Cannibal Corpse and some Malevolent Creation!
Makes Metallica seem like POP music....

 

[Code001]

I think people get to caught up in that mentality that you have to tune down to sound brutal.

Some of the most brutal stuff I have ever heard was in Eb.

Yes. Can't tell me early Metalica doesn't kick ass, all in standard tuning. It's all in the attitude!
And, standard or 1/2 step down, just sounds better with high gain. You can hear everything going on.

Metallica is not as brutal as Cannibal Corpse or Suffocation. Period. You may prefer the music, but it's not as brutal.

Not even in the same ballpark.
Love me some older Cannibal Corpse and some Malevolent Creation!
Makes Metallica seem like POP music....

That's exactly why I asked the OP what his definition of "brutal" is. Let's face it, most of the guys here are more 80s oriented. That's fine, but there's a difference as to what they think is heavy and what the younger generation thinks is heavy. A Cannibal Corpse tone is different than an Exodus tone, a Sepultra tone, Kreator tone, etc.

 

[Mailman1971]

I think people get to caught up in that mentality that you have to tune down to sound brutal.

Some of the most brutal stuff I have ever heard was in Eb.

Yes. Can't tell me early Metalica doesn't kick ass, all in standard tuning. It's all in the attitude!
And, standard or 1/2 step down, just sounds better with high gain. You can hear everything going on.

Metallica is not as brutal as Cannibal Corpse or Suffocation. Period. You may prefer the music, but it's not as brutal.

Not even in the same ballpark.
Love me some older Cannibal Corpse and some Malevolent Creation!
Makes Metallica seem like POP music....

That's exactly why I asked the OP what his definition of "brutal" is. Let's face it, most of the guys here are more 80s oriented. That's fine, but there's a difference as to what they think is heavy and what the younger generation thinks is heavy. A Cannibal Corpse tone is different than an Exodus tone, a Sepultra tone, Kreator tone, etc.

I grew up on the 80's metal. I am 39 years old and that was the scene when I was a teen. But the really BRUTAL stuff came out after the Thrash Metal scene.

 

[Digital Jams]

Hey now.................Devin Townsend is an 80s guy Vai's Bad Horsie is heavy as well

Just cause we don't always talk about CC does not mean we can't get heavy

I agree about pick attack btw, the person has to be able to play heavy regardless of tunings, gear, etc.

 

[fearhk213]

I think people get to caught up in that mentality that you have to tune down to sound brutal.

Some of the most brutal stuff I have ever heard was in Eb.

Exactly.

Or how about the new Gojira album where they're only tuned to D std. It's definitely all in the attitude of how you play (like someone else said) & the vibe the music creates.

 

[Code001]

I think people get to caught up in that mentality that you have to tune down to sound brutal.

Some of the most brutal stuff I have ever heard was in Eb.

Exactly.

Or how about the new Gojira album where they're only tuned to D std. It's definitely all in the attitude of how you play (like someone else said) & the vibe the music creates.

Gojira isn't brutal. It's good stuff, but it's not brutal.

 

[thegame]

Just like EVH has "the touch" for his tone, heavy players have their own touch for getting brutal tones. I don't find some of these limp wristed metalcore or numetal players very "brutal". Many use so much gain you can't hear the pick attack anymore so there goes the individuality.

I agree E standard can sound as heavy as anything. That doesn't mean tuning super low (B or lower) can't be just as effective, when done correctly which IMO is rare. Some great examples of good tone at very low tunings are Fear Factory and Carcass (Heartwork). I'm not into 7 strings because by the time you get that low B super tight sounding, the high strings sound too thin.

 

[D-Rock]

I think people get to caught up in that mentality that you have to tune down to sound brutal.

Some of the most brutal stuff I have ever heard was in Eb.

Exactly.

Or how about the new Gojira album where they're only tuned to D std. It's definitely all in the attitude of how you play (like someone else said) & the vibe the music creates.

Gojira isn't brutal. It's good stuff, but it's not brutal.

Actually, I think they have some pretty devastating parts in their songs. They're not ALL brutal, all the time, but they do have their moments.

I prefer staying in standard drop d with 11-50 strings. Purely for clarity's sake. I find a lot of the very low tunings to all have that generic sound that encompasses the whole tone coming from the amp. I like a fast, crisp and tight response with detailed note seperation.

 

[fearhk213]

I think people get to caught up in that mentality that you have to tune down to sound brutal.

Some of the most brutal stuff I have ever heard was in Eb.

Exactly.

Or how about the new Gojira album where they're only tuned to D std. It's definitely all in the attitude of how you play (like someone else said) & the vibe the music creates.

Gojira isn't brutal. It's good stuff, but it's not brutal.

I guess it depends on what defines something as "brutal". Heavy as balls riffs, dark atmosphere, aggressive playing, and makes you want to punch senior citizens are all qualities in Gojira's new album. It definitely isn't a relentless on slaught of non stop blasts (though some are there), death metal vocals, & ultra fast tremelo picking. I'd still say Gojira brings plenty of brutality or with whatever that word means I guess

 

[Code001]

I guess it depends on what defines something as "brutal". Heavy as balls riffs, dark atmosphere, aggressive playing, and makes you want to punch senior citizens are all qualities in Gojira's new album. It definitely isn't a relentless on slaught of non stop blasts (though some are there), death metal vocals, & ultra fast tremelo picking. I'd still say Gojira brings plenty of brutality or with whatever that word means I guess

Which is, yet again, why I asked the OP to describe what he means by brutal.

D-Rock, check out Arsis' last 2 albums for some killer downtuned, tight, ridiculous playing.

 

[D-Rock]

I guess it depends on what defines something as "brutal". Heavy as balls riffs, dark atmosphere, aggressive playing, and makes you want to punch senior citizens are all qualities in Gojira's new album. It definitely isn't a relentless on slaught of non stop blasts (though some are there), death metal vocals, & ultra fast tremelo picking. I'd still say Gojira brings plenty of brutality or with whatever that word means I guess

Which is, yet again, why I asked the OP to describe what he means by brutal.

D-Rock, check out Arsis' last 2 albums for some killer downtuned, tight, ridiculous playing.

Thanks, I'll check that out. I've never heard their stuff.

 

[moltenmetalburn]

The newest arsis record is killer!

 

[petejt]

Just like EVH has "the touch" for his tone, heavy players have their own touch for getting brutal tones. I don't find some of these limp wristed metalcore or numetal players very "brutal". Many use so much gain you can't hear the pick attack anymore so there goes the individuality.

I agree E standard can sound as heavy as anything. That doesn't mean tuning super low (B or lower) can't be just as effective, when done correctly which IMO is rare. Some great examples of good tone at very low tunings are Fear Factory and Carcass (Heartwork). I'm not into 7 strings because by the time you get that low B super tight sounding, the high strings sound too thin.

I agree wholeheartedly. To me that "brutal" attitude is a lot in how you attack the strings. Dig into them. Try and break them if you can. Use that energy to drive a hot signal into your amp, rather than just rely on tonnes of gain and a boost pedal.

A lot of the modern metal & nu-metal stuff doesn't sound brutal to me at all, for the same reasons that you said.
In fact I think a lot of older music sounds more "brutal" to me in comparison- it has that aggression and attitude, even if it isn't as gainy and bassy. And I don't mean metal, I mean rock music you could watch on re-runs of Count Down from the 1970s. It's still tough music.

I get a brutal sound by using thick strings, even when I'm in Standard E tuning (which nowdays is 90% of the time). I also use a thick pick (3mm) and hit the strings really hard, using the side of the pick rather than the tip. A tight, but thick, chuggy sound is important. But what adds to that a lot is a roaring, growling midrange so it feels like it's crushing you and a searing, sizzling crunchy top end that is so sharp it slices your face off. That sinister, violent sound is what makes it brutal. An amp or pair of amps that really bring out and accentuate the aggression you direct towards the guitar's strings, is essential. And solid closed-back 4x12 cabs. You want it to sizzle, but not to fizz. It has to sound solid, thick as solid bricks, but be clear. Make it mean. Odd chords too also help for a dark vibe.

 

[glpg80]

B Standard was what divine heresy was tuned to, and is also my favorite tuning.

i prefer 12-56 for this tuning. in all actuality i prefer one guitar strung with a lighter gauge for tracking solo's in the tuning and another with thicker strings and a brighter wood combination for tracking rhythm for the aggressive mixing attitude.

Whitechapel has always tuned A from what i can recall. Graves of valor, Rose Funeral, early All Shall Perish, As blood runs black, Emmure, Heaven Shall Burn (my avatar), Suicide Silence, etc.

most of the reason for having any scale length longer than 25.5 has nothing to do with intonation and everything to do with decreasing string gauge without sacrificing tension. by giving a more loose feeling for vibrato and also more tuning stability you also gain the added benefit of larger fret area on the neck for upper fret access.

I think one of my personal favorites right now is As good as dead, tuned B standard:

If you have a 7 string, the guitar is tuned to E standard with a B as your 7th string. if you have a 6 string you will have to drop the E to a B and this is where the entire guitar has to be rock solid and well setup to handle the added tension/stress of larger gauge strings. i use 11's for C, 10's for D.

IMHO this is where laying your strings on the fretboard actually hurts that aggressive attitude, you lose alot of attack and articulation in your right hand by trying to go for the lowest action possible. that works great for solo tracking and comfort, but you will get more mids, more resonance, and much tighter rhythm control with the action raised to a medium comfort level on your guitar.