Scott Henderson Sounds off on Internet/Music Business

[degenaro]

I stand corrected. My point is that you're not physically "stealing" something. You're committing copyright infringement. There's a big difference as far as the law is concerned.

I don't think folks will stop recording. Hell, my band is going to record soon. Do I expect explosive album sales? Not really. But I do expect to have another medium through which we can reach people who are interested in hearing us. And despite piracy, iTunes sales seem to be doing just fine.

We're not talking about some one with a day gig that plays music for fun and something might happen..or not. We're talking about serious Jazz heavy weight guys who have to teach to eat.

And yes itunes does okay, but that has very little to do with music, and much more with the overall sales incl. apps, which all of it falls into the middle aged guys gotta have category. It's much less profit because some one is buying an "item" they think they like but rather because they feel the pressure to buy to compete. Much like high end gear on the internet.

Plus how does it help musos when itunes is doing well, they lowered their pay-outs, and Jazz btw amounts for about 2% of all sales, and off those 2 percent 1 1/2 are Kenny G.

I get tht folks will not stop down loading, and in the end it doesn't matter.

And I see it every time go to the Tater, you have the guys that are just burning, and they play in front of 50 folks (at best).

 

[squealie]

And while I'm renting, I really like, and by like I mean hate middle aged hobby guys playing gigs for free. Fuck, I hate that damn near as much as any non Union gig.

Why?

There's heaps of guys willing to do it. And even less folks willing to go see them.

Hobby golfers aint costin' Tiger no tang.

I've yet to see a 'free' band take a dollar out of my gigging pocket. If it makes them happy, have at it. I personally know a hundred 'hobby' guitar players that deserve to be heard. For whatever reason, they've never been able put/keep together an act that will draw a crowd. By the same token, I won't listen to any of them that tell me I don't deserve my gig. I'm a weekender in a podunk town, but I ain't gonna be shamed out of it.

DJs are truly annoying. They plug in their Ipod, make money, are treated like rockstars, and Lady GaGa begs them to 'spin that record baby'. But they entertain (if indirectly) more people than 99.99999% of musicians. I don't see the point in complaining. Come up with a better, or at least competitive entertainment package, or STFU, I say.

Brings me back to the original point of the Henderson comment... this sense of entitlement that musicians have. None of this crap that we obsess about, has any intrinsic value. Whether you have the sickest set of guitar-licks, or biggest tits, or reliable 3 point jump-shots....none of it is worth a dollar until somebody slaps a dollar on the counter to see it.

But I ramble....

 

[OldSkoolNJ]

Things have changed forever. Just wonder whats next ?

Licensing fee's on Tribute bands??
Royalty fee's for Cover/Top 40 bands?

There was a lot of lawsuit talk last year regarding music on Juke boxes and the places they are in too..

 

[stephen sawall]

Things have changed forever. Just wonder whats next ?

Licensing fee's on Tribute bands??
Royalty fee's for Cover/Top 40 bands?

There was a lot of lawsuit talk last year regarding music on Juke boxes and the places they are in too..

It is already in place in some places. I know guys that pay to cover other peoples material.

 

[70strathead]

here's the part 1 interview...this one is a bit more tame and talks about his teaching style/guitar players/etc..

Scott rules.

 

[70strathead]

here's the part 1 interview...this one is a bit more tame and talks about his teaching style/guitar players/etc..

Scott rules.

 

[Anonymous]

the real question is...

who, but the most hardcore guitar geek would want anything to do with a Scott Henderson album

I am sure most of Henderson's fanbase gladly shells out for his cd's

 

[Rogue]

I agree that is akin to theft. I understand the frustration. I honestly don't know that it matters to the average musician. The big names are still going to make big money. The little names are still going to make little money. The only difference is the record labels aren't making the same bucks they were 20 years ago.

Is the difference between Scott Henderson's success or failure in his CD sales? I very seriously doubt it. That is going to apply to 99% of musicians out there. Hell, if it weren't for youtube (free) or internet forums (free) I wouldn't know who the hell Scott Henderson was. At least now if I knew he was playing a gig locally I might go check him out. I would buy a cd if I were into his stuff.

The key before was air play. Without exposure, you weren't making money. That hasn't changed. The only thing that has changed is the control of "air play", which is now more demand driven as opposed to who and what you listened to was being decided for you.

There may be a handful of bands that cd sales ultimately determine their fate....but very few.

 

[nbarts]

I hope he doesn't drink before he goes home to his daughter.

 

[RaceU4her]

its such an old and tired argument at this point. the only people who i see still pissed and complaining are middle aged dudes who arent selling anything anymore anyway who are still stuck in the vinyl age let alone the internet age. its like the old landscaper i know who damns the internet because he sees all his other friends getting business from their website while he sits around waiting for calls that arent going to come in from his phone book ad because no one reads the phone book anymore. Instead of getting with the times and buying a computer and getting a site going he would rather just complain, keep printing his ad and keep losing business. im starting to look at musicians the same way. you can either find ways like other musicians are to sell and keep their stuff out there or you can just keep complaining, go about your old ways and not sell anything and not have your band heard.

 

[Anonymous]

Henderson is a guitar god. But I think his snifter of brandy went straight to the skinny part of his dreds on this one.

One second he's talking about how people are poor, and suffering in this economy, in the next breath, he calls them 'thieving motherfuckers' for downloading music.

The whole thing is debatable. And has been debated ad nauseum. You can't stop people from downloading. You either figure out a way to make your product marketable, or you don't. Or you get out of the entertainment business. Quit crying.

You're right - no one is going to stop downloading music...

HOWEVER... while I have no horse in this race, and as such, really don't care, IMO stealing someone's hard work is fucked. Pure and simple. There is nothing debatable about that. I don't care how poor you are - you don't steal other people's work and take the bread out of their family's mouth.

He's drinking a glass of red wine, btw...

Steve

Guys, please stop using the word "stealing". Because, by definition, downloading music is NOT stealing. It is copyright infringement.

You cannot prove that the person who downloaded the music was actually going to buy the album. Therefore, it is NOT a lost sale. In fact, it's possible that the person who downloaded that music illegally may actually go out and BUY the album if they like it. Heck, I've bought some albums on vinyl that I also have on MP3 from downloads. That's like a $30+ sale (sometimes more depending on the rarity of the album) that would never have happened if I hadn't listened to it in MP3 first to see if it was good or not.

Walking into a music store and taking CDs Empire Records style IS stealing. It is the acquiring of material property without paying for it. MP3s are not material property, they are intellectual, and as such fall under an entirely different set of (sometimes even more unfair) rules. For example, I could download MP3s and go to court with the RIAA, where they would literally try to ruin me financially (think upwards of $100000+ in "punitive" damages for as little as an album's worth of MP3s). However, I could go into a music store, steal a CD, and walk away with a pittance in fines, and if I'm extremely unlucky, a few days jail-time and some probation.

Unless you're selling hundreds of thousands of records, you're going to make significantly more money touring than selling CDs. My mom knows a band in Wisconsin that made $2000 for a piss-easy gig at a restaurant. They're not huge, they aren't selling millions of CDs. But that's a lot of coin for a couple hours work.

Personally, with my band I would throw the music up on iTunes and give CDs away for free just to promote. I don't care if people spread our music; more people listening means more people likely to come to our shows. More popularity = bigger gigs = more exposure = more money from ticket sales. Album sales are a bonus.

But that is just my opinion. For me, I only care about making the music and people having access to it in any way possible. If that means I give my stuff away for free, fine. That doesn't mean we can't sell CDs at a show, or make money with gigs, etc.

And with services like Slacker Radio and Pandora... honestly, musicians need to stop deluding themselves that album sales are going to make them rich. Heck, once you become more focused on getting rich rather than making a good living doing something you love, I think you've missed the point anyway.

Whatever works for you (or rather, whatever is left for you to try to make a living as a musician..)

Taking someone's hard work that they WANT to sell, for free, is stealing, I don't give a shit about the semantics...

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

the only people who i see still pissed and complaining are middle aged dudes who arent selling anything anymore anyway who are still stuck in the vinyl age let alone the internet age.

Sure. You're resigned to the fact that your music is worthless, young guy.

Steve

 

[degenaro]

Things have changed forever. Just wonder whats next ?

Licensing fee's on Tribute bands??
Royalty fee's for Cover/Top 40 bands?

There was a lot of lawsuit talk last year regarding music on Juke boxes and the places they are in too..

Always has been there...just happens to be the venues responsibility. I love this entitlement shit...you're perfectly happy to make money off some one else's work, but have an issue for them to get paid?

 

[degenaro]

I agree that is akin to theft. I understand the frustration. I honestly don't know that it matters to the average musician. The big names are still going to make big money. The little names are still going to make little money. The only difference is the record labels aren't making the same bucks they were 20 years ago.

Is the difference between Scott Henderson's success or failure in his CD sales? I very seriously doubt it. That is going to apply to 99% of musicians out there. Hell, if it weren't for youtube (free) or internet forums (free) I wouldn't know who the hell Scott Henderson was. At least now if I knew he was playing a gig locally I might go check him out. I would buy a cd if I were into his stuff.

The key before was air play. Without exposure, you weren't making money. That hasn't changed. The only thing that has changed is the control of "air play", which is now more demand driven as opposed to who and what you listened to was being decided for you.

There may be a handful of bands that cd sales ultimately determine their fate....but very few.

Tell you what, and SUhr touched on to it...get a Rhapsoday subscription, it's 15 buncks a month to stream any of their stuff. And the artist get o.oo67$ in other words 2/3 a penny per play per tune, that model to me makes perfect sense. Pay for subscription and split those monies by usage.

 

[degenaro]

the real question is...

who, but the most hardcore guitar geek would want anything to do with a Scott Henderson album

I am sure most of Henderson's fanbase gladly shells out for his cd's

See the thing is that once upon a time the guitar magazines had the power to make or break a career or a product. Just because you think if it wasn't for on-line exposure you wouldn't know about Scott isn't necessarily a fact.
But yes this really is largely a matter of things having to (d)evolve past where they're right now.

 

[Stratboy151]

And while I'm renting, I really like, and by like I mean hate middle aged hobby guys playing gigs for free. Fuck, I hate that damn near as much as any non Union gig.

Why?

There's heaps of guys willing to do it. And even less folks willing to go see them.

Hobby golfers aint costin' Tiger no tang.

I've yet to see a 'free' band take a dollar out of my gigging pocket. If it makes them happy, have at it. I personally know a hundred 'hobby' guitar players that deserve to be heard. For whatever reason, they've never been able put/keep together an act that will draw a crowd. By the same token, I won't listen to any of them that tell me I don't deserve my gig. I'm a weekender in a podunk town, but I ain't gonna be shamed out of it.

DJs are truly annoying. They plug in their Ipod, make money, are treated like rockstars, and Lady GaGa begs them to 'spin that record baby'. But they entertain (if indirectly) more people than 99.99999% of musicians. I don't see the point in complaining. Come up with a better, or at least competitive entertainment package, or STFU, I say.

Brings me back to the original point of the Henderson comment... this sense of entitlement that musicians have. None of this crap that we obsess about, has any intrinsic value. Whether you have the sickest set of guitar-licks, or biggest tits, or reliable 3 point jump-shots....none of it is worth a dollar until somebody slaps a dollar on the counter to see it.

But I ramble....

the problem is these guys will play for next to nothing so the bars/clubs establish that as the going rate, in turn YES taking money out of our pockets when a fee is trying to be negotiated to book a band.

 

[degenaro]

And while I'm renting, I really like, and by like I mean hate middle aged hobby guys playing gigs for free. Fuck, I hate that damn near as much as any non Union gig.

Why?

There's heaps of guys willing to do it. And even less folks willing to go see them.

Hobby golfers aint costin' Tiger no tang.

I've yet to see a 'free' band take a dollar out of my gigging pocket. If it makes them happy, have at it. I personally know a hundred 'hobby' guitar players that deserve to be heard. For whatever reason, they've never been able put/keep together an act that will draw a crowd. By the same token, I won't listen to any of them that tell me I don't deserve my gig. I'm a weekender in a podunk town, but I ain't gonna be shamed out of it.

DJs are truly annoying. They plug in their Ipod, make money, are treated like rockstars, and Lady GaGa begs them to 'spin that record baby'. But they entertain (if indirectly) more people than 99.99999% of musicians. I don't see the point in complaining. Come up with a better, or at least competitive entertainment package, or STFU, I say.

Brings me back to the original point of the Henderson comment... this sense of entitlement that musicians have. None of this crap that we obsess about, has any intrinsic value. Whether you have the sickest set of guitar-licks, or biggest tits, or reliable 3 point jump-shots....none of it is worth a dollar until somebody slaps a dollar on the counter to see it.

But I ramble....

the problem is these guys will play for next to nothing so the bars/clubs establish that as the going rate, in turn YES taking money out of our pockets when a fee is trying to be negotiated to book a band.

I skipped over this, can't believe I missed the point you responded to...
I have no clue what you do for a living, but say you're in customer service for a US bank and all of a sudden your job goes off shore to some one that doesn't speak English with good diction...for much less money than you make. That make ya happy?

Just because you're having fun as a weekend warrior does not mean that working guys should not be able to make their living.
Now as far as I'm concerned the opinion you're displaying drips with entitlement.

 

[RaceU4her]

the only people who i see still pissed and complaining are middle aged dudes who arent selling anything anymore anyway who are still stuck in the vinyl age let alone the internet age.

Sure. You're resigned to the fact that your music is worthless, young guy.

Steve

im in my mid 20s, so i see what some of my younger friends bands are doing like a studio/live dvd when you buy the album, a ticket to a show if you buy the album, free code for this and that if you go to the show, a bunch of stupid shit. a ton of people go to their shows, they got a ton of twitter followers and whatever and they are doing great. then i see my older friends who are a better band and equally as marketable stuck in 1994 sending their cd's to the local radio stations, no twitter, want everyone to pay for everything wondering why their band isnt taking off. much like my landscaper buddy, until they figure out times are changing and the methods that worked years ago arent gonna work today they are going to get no where.

 

['63-Strat]

First off, Scott Henderson is rad and if anyone deserves to get paid for his shit it may as well be him. I think that stealing a less commercial artist's stuff is actually worse than stealing a mainstream pop act's stuff given how many other revenue streams the latter have but w/e. I'm typing this while I listen to Stern's upside downside record that I did buy off itunes a ways back btw, Ed Stealing is stealing and its only due to cognitive dissonance that people even try to rationalize this. Enough said. Gotta chug enough coffee to wake up for my last level of ear training final ever this morning, ugh.

 

[degenaro]

the only people who i see still pissed and complaining are middle aged dudes who arent selling anything anymore anyway who are still stuck in the vinyl age let alone the internet age.

Sure. You're resigned to the fact that your music is worthless, young guy.

Steve

im in my mid 20s, so i see what some of my younger friends bands are doing like a studio/live dvd when you buy the album, a ticket to a show if you buy the album, free code for this and that if you go to the show, a bunch of stupid shit. a ton of people go to their shows, they got a ton of twitter followers and whatever and they are doing great. then i see my older friends who are a better band and equally as marketable stuck in 1994 sending their cd's to the local radio stations, no twitter, want everyone to pay for everything wondering why their band isnt taking off. much like my landscaper buddy, until they figure out times are changing and the methods that worked years ago arent gonna work today they are going to get no where.

How much do you make a year with that band? More than 10K?
Your older buddy's issue is not so much changing with the times but rather sitting on his ass., Just like you had to hustle and go hang on the Strip in front of Gazarri's in the 80s to market your band and get chicks to the shows, now you use the internet.

But lets me serious for a second, unless your myspace has a million hits you might as well concentrate on a day gig.,..


My point is when you have guys like Joe Zawinul (may he rest in piece) who has to go on the road even though he's to ill to do so...there is something wrong with how we take care of artists. The union having rendered largely useless due to guys working for free should be taking care of members that kept the Union alive for 5 = decades. But without funds...how can they.