Scott Henderson Sounds off on Internet/Music Business

[thisguy]

First off, Scott Henderson is rad and if anyone deserves to get paid for his shit it may as well be him. I think that stealing a less commercial artist's stuff is actually worse than stealing a mainstream pop act's stuff given how many other revenue streams the latter have but w/e. I'm typing this while I listen to Stern's upside downside record that I did buy off itunes a ways back btw, Ed Stealing is stealing and its only due to cognitive dissonance that people even try to rationalize this. Enough said. Gotta chug enough coffee to wake up for my last level of ear training final ever this morning, ugh.

Ear-training huh? I wasn't going to bother with the thread but this changed my mind.

First off, I Henderson is a fusion genius to me and I own some of his CDs.

BUT...jazz just isn't as marketable as it used to be (especially in the U.S.) and neither are "guitar hero" albums. As stated previously, he's in a fringe genre. I have the privilege of knowing some well-respected jazz musicians/composers with unbelievable resumes who still have to teach lessons or at a university just to make ends meet.

Back to the ear-training.

I am back in school completing the classical composition music degree I never finished. I have about 5 classes left after this semester. I am so burned out because the music you're forced to write may be contemporary and artful but what they don't understand is that NOBODY GIVES A CRAP ABOUT IT!!! Seriously, if people can figure out what key you're in it's wrong, you can't have anything repeat (eliminating any sense of beat or groove), etc. The music that makes the educators happy is completely unmarketable. Also, people complain constantly about people not showing up to performances if they can ever get anyone to perform it in the first place since audiences would rather hear the classics.

It's too late to change schools now so I am just to stick it out and get out of there.

 

[kasperjensen]

I remember doing my theses on this subject at Audio Engineering college...

I raised the point that the a lot of the problem lies in how we perceive our actions.
If you are born before 1990, you will most likely have spent your first years in life without internet. Internet and P2P comes along, and suddenly you can get your favourite music for free.
You know, and have been told, that this is in fact illegal, and can have serious ramifications should you get caught.
But does it seem illegal to you? No.
It seems illegal to rob a bank or a grocery store, because that is how you are raised. And you know that police are gonna get ya.
But sitting in your office or bedroom and downloading Beyonce? Doesn't really seem like a crime does it? And what are the chances of getting caught?
The minute people start getting busted left right and centre, things are gonna change. But which police force has time to recover Metallicas lost profit?

I think we simply have to accept that this is the order of the day. People steal music, and unless you can offer them a good alternative, then they are going to keep doing it.
Subscription services seem like the way forward. It has to be cheap, fast, and extremely high quality. And really flippin easy!
We must realise that selling albums at $16 (or whatever the price is) just isn't the way forward.
I think that we must also realise that the level of playing and innovation has been raised a lot since the 60s. And more people have the means to release their songs. So therefore the competition is just getting more and more vicious.
Do you really think that Santana could make it, if he was to start out today?

 

['63-Strat]

First off, Scott Henderson is rad and if anyone deserves to get paid for his shit it may as well be him. I think that stealing a less commercial artist's stuff is actually worse than stealing a mainstream pop act's stuff given how many other revenue streams the latter have but w/e. I'm typing this while I listen to Stern's upside downside record that I did buy off itunes a ways back btw, Ed Stealing is stealing and its only due to cognitive dissonance that people even try to rationalize this. Enough said. Gotta chug enough coffee to wake up for my last level of ear training final ever this morning, ugh.

Ear-training huh? I wasn't going to bother with the thread but this changed my mind.

First off, I Henderson is a fusion genius to me and I own some of his CDs.

BUT...jazz just isn't as marketable as it used to be (especially in the U.S.) and neither are "guitar hero" albums. As stated previously, he's in a fringe genre. I have the privilege of knowing some well-respected jazz musicians/composers with unbelievable resumes who still have to teach lessons or at a university just to make ends meet.

Back to the ear-training.

I am back in school completing the classical composition music degree I never finished. I have about 5 classes left after this semester. I am so burned out because the music you're forced to write may be contemporary and artful but what they don't understand is that NOBODY GIVES A CRAP ABOUT IT!!! Seriously, if people can figure out what key you're in it's wrong, you can't have anything repeat (eliminating any sense of beat or groove), etc. The music that makes the educators happy is completely unmarketable. Also, people complain constantly about people not showing up to performances if they can ever get anyone to perform it in the first place since audiences would rather hear the classics.

It's too late to change schools now so I am just to stick it out and get out of there.

Well dictation part is today, locrian natural 2 and altered, chord progressions, rhythms, etc. next week is sight singing of the same. But wait, do you mean contemporary classical music isn't popular?

 

[kasperjensen]

First off, Scott Henderson is rad and if anyone deserves to get paid for his shit it may as well be him. I think that stealing a less commercial artist's stuff is actually worse than stealing a mainstream pop act's stuff given how many other revenue streams the latter have but w/e. I'm typing this while I listen to Stern's upside downside record that I did buy off itunes a ways back btw, Ed Stealing is stealing and its only due to cognitive dissonance that people even try to rationalize this. Enough said. Gotta chug enough coffee to wake up for my last level of ear training final ever this morning, ugh.

Ear-training huh? I wasn't going to bother with the thread but this changed my mind.

First off, I Henderson is a fusion genius to me and I own some of his CDs.

BUT...jazz just isn't as marketable as it used to be (especially in the U.S.) and neither are "guitar hero" albums. As stated previously, he's in a fringe genre. I have the privilege of knowing some well-respected jazz musicians/composers with unbelievable resumes who still have to teach lessons or at a university just to make ends meet.

Back to the ear-training.

I am back in school completing the classical composition music degree I never finished. I have about 5 classes left after this semester. I am so burned out because the music you're forced to write may be contemporary and artful but what they don't understand is that NOBODY GIVES A CRAP ABOUT IT!!! Seriously, if people can figure out what key you're in it's wrong, you can't have anything repeat (eliminating any sense of beat or groove), etc. The music that makes the educators happy is completely unmarketable. Also, people complain constantly about people not showing up to performances if they can ever get anyone to perform it in the first place since audiences would rather hear the classics.

It's too late to change schools now so I am just to stick it out and get out of there.

Indeed.

I think its like setting up a business that only repairs pre 1935 teddy bears, in your local area only. It just isn't going to work!

I don't reckon we will get any more Steve Vai's... And I also reckon that he has only stayed afloat because of his distribution deal with Sony (I think it is). They just keep 10%, and the rest goes back to Vai's pocket.
Sell more that 1m records... go figure.

 

[thisguy]

First off, Scott Henderson is rad and if anyone deserves to get paid for his shit it may as well be him. I think that stealing a less commercial artist's stuff is actually worse than stealing a mainstream pop act's stuff given how many other revenue streams the latter have but w/e. I'm typing this while I listen to Stern's upside downside record that I did buy off itunes a ways back btw, Ed Stealing is stealing and its only due to cognitive dissonance that people even try to rationalize this. Enough said. Gotta chug enough coffee to wake up for my last level of ear training final ever this morning, ugh.

Ear-training huh? I wasn't going to bother with the thread but this changed my mind.

First off, I Henderson is a fusion genius to me and I own some of his CDs.

BUT...jazz just isn't as marketable as it used to be (especially in the U.S.) and neither are "guitar hero" albums. As stated previously, he's in a fringe genre. I have the privilege of knowing some well-respected jazz musicians/composers with unbelievable resumes who still have to teach lessons or at a university just to make ends meet.

Back to the ear-training.

I am back in school completing the classical composition music degree I never finished. I have about 5 classes left after this semester. I am so burned out because the music you're forced to write may be contemporary and artful but what they don't understand is that NOBODY GIVES A CRAP ABOUT IT!!! Seriously, if people can figure out what key you're in it's wrong, you can't have anything repeat (eliminating any sense of beat or groove), etc. The music that makes the educators happy is completely unmarketable. Also, people complain constantly about people not showing up to performances if they can ever get anyone to perform it in the first place since audiences would rather hear the classics.

It's too late to change schools now so I am just to stick it out and get out of there.

Well dictation part is today, locrian natural 2 and altered, chord progressions, rhythms, etc. next week is sight singing of the same. But wait, do you mean contemporary classical music isn't popular?

I'm not saying contemporary classical is not popular as a whole although it's not going to compete with John Mayer or Lady GaGa. I'm more specifically talking about certain teachers take on the genre. I've heard so much contemporary classical get trashed it's not even funny. A lot of it doesn't meet up with the snobbish standards. I just feel they are out of touch with current reality.

My point is still valid. I'm talking about a genre that is not a strong seller, composers struggling to get music performed which results in a lack of income. Meanwhile, there are constant rants from people I know about not being accepted. Incidentally, many legendary composers weren't well-accepted while they were alive either.

 

['63-Strat]

First off, Scott Henderson is rad and if anyone deserves to get paid for his shit it may as well be him. I think that stealing a less commercial artist's stuff is actually worse than stealing a mainstream pop act's stuff given how many other revenue streams the latter have but w/e. I'm typing this while I listen to Stern's upside downside record that I did buy off itunes a ways back btw, Ed Stealing is stealing and its only due to cognitive dissonance that people even try to rationalize this. Enough said. Gotta chug enough coffee to wake up for my last level of ear training final ever this morning, ugh.

Ear-training huh? I wasn't going to bother with the thread but this changed my mind.

First off, I Henderson is a fusion genius to me and I own some of his CDs.

BUT...jazz just isn't as marketable as it used to be (especially in the U.S.) and neither are "guitar hero" albums. As stated previously, he's in a fringe genre. I have the privilege of knowing some well-respected jazz musicians/composers with unbelievable resumes who still have to teach lessons or at a university just to make ends meet.

Back to the ear-training.

I am back in school completing the classical composition music degree I never finished. I have about 5 classes left after this semester. I am so burned out because the music you're forced to write may be contemporary and artful but what they don't understand is that NOBODY GIVES A CRAP ABOUT IT!!! Seriously, if people can figure out what key you're in it's wrong, you can't have anything repeat (eliminating any sense of beat or groove), etc. The music that makes the educators happy is completely unmarketable. Also, people complain constantly about people not showing up to performances if they can ever get anyone to perform it in the first place since audiences would rather hear the classics.

It's too late to change schools now so I am just to stick it out and get out of there.

Well dictation part is today, locrian natural 2 and altered, chord progressions, rhythms, etc. next week is sight singing of the same. But wait, do you mean contemporary classical music isn't popular?

I'm not saying contemporary classical is not popular as a whole although it's not going to compete with John Mayer or Lady GaGa. I'm more specifically talking about certain teachers take on the genre. I've heard so much contemporary classical get trashed it's not even funny. A lot of it doesn't meet up with the snobbish standards. I just feel they are out of touch with current reality.

My point is still valid. I'm talking about a genre that is not a strong seller, composers struggling to get music performed which results in a lack of income. Meanwhile, there are constant rants from people I know about not being accepted. Incidentally, many legendary composers weren't well-accepted while they were alive either.

I wasn't disagreeing with you But its really no different than other non-music departments in college being totally oblivious to whats outside their ivory tower, IMO. Business doesn't run how commerce profs would like, people don't read what english profs would like and the public sure as hell doesn't care that kanye and T pain can't sing to save their lives.

 

[degenaro]

I remember doing my theses on this subject at Audio Engineering college...

I raised the point that the a lot of the problem lies in how we perceive our actions.
If you are born before 1990, you will most likely have spent your first years in life without internet. Internet and P2P comes along, and suddenly you can get your favourite music for free.
You know, and have been told, that this is in fact illegal, and can have serious ramifications should you get caught.
But does it seem illegal to you? No.
It seems illegal to rob a bank or a grocery store, because that is how you are raised. And you know that police are gonna get ya.
But sitting in your office or bedroom and downloading Beyonce? Doesn't really seem like a crime does it? And what are the chances of getting caught?
The minute people start getting busted left right and centre, things are gonna change. But which police force has time to recover Metallicas lost profit?

I think we simply have to accept that this is the order of the day. People steal music, and unless you can offer them a good alternative, then they are going to keep doing it.
Subscription services seem like the way forward. It has to be cheap, fast, and extremely high quality. And really flippin easy!
We must realise that selling albums at $16 (or whatever the price is) just isn't the way forward.
I think that we must also realise that the level of playing and innovation has been raised a lot since the 60s. And more people have the means to release their songs. So therefore the competition is just getting more and more vicious.
Do you really think that Santana could make it, if he was to start out today?

How has the level of playing been raised since the 60s? Maybe in a given genre like Rock. As in Rock guys finally caught up to the ability of guys in other genres.

 

[amiller]

Yep...stealing is still...STEALING!

Oh, and for the record, Scott Henderson is "with the times." He has his own website complete with product sales links. Check it out: http://www.scotthenderson.net/

I love his music and I PAY for the privilage of listening...over and over again.

 

[thisguy]

First off, Scott Henderson is rad and if anyone deserves to get paid for his shit it may as well be him. I think that stealing a less commercial artist's stuff is actually worse than stealing a mainstream pop act's stuff given how many other revenue streams the latter have but w/e. I'm typing this while I listen to Stern's upside downside record that I did buy off itunes a ways back btw, Ed Stealing is stealing and its only due to cognitive dissonance that people even try to rationalize this. Enough said. Gotta chug enough coffee to wake up for my last level of ear training final ever this morning, ugh.

Ear-training huh? I wasn't going to bother with the thread but this changed my mind.

First off, I Henderson is a fusion genius to me and I own some of his CDs.

BUT...jazz just isn't as marketable as it used to be (especially in the U.S.) and neither are "guitar hero" albums. As stated previously, he's in a fringe genre. I have the privilege of knowing some well-respected jazz musicians/composers with unbelievable resumes who still have to teach lessons or at a university just to make ends meet.

Back to the ear-training.

I am back in school completing the classical composition music degree I never finished. I have about 5 classes left after this semester. I am so burned out because the music you're forced to write may be contemporary and artful but what they don't understand is that NOBODY GIVES A CRAP ABOUT IT!!! Seriously, if people can figure out what key you're in it's wrong, you can't have anything repeat (eliminating any sense of beat or groove), etc. The music that makes the educators happy is completely unmarketable. Also, people complain constantly about people not showing up to performances if they can ever get anyone to perform it in the first place since audiences would rather hear the classics.

It's too late to change schools now so I am just to stick it out and get out of there.

Well dictation part is today, locrian natural 2 and altered, chord progressions, rhythms, etc. next week is sight singing of the same. But wait, do you mean contemporary classical music isn't popular?

I'm not saying contemporary classical is not popular as a whole although it's not going to compete with John Mayer or Lady GaGa. I'm more specifically talking about certain teachers take on the genre. I've heard so much contemporary classical get trashed it's not even funny. A lot of it doesn't meet up with the snobbish standards. I just feel they are out of touch with current reality.

My point is still valid. I'm talking about a genre that is not a strong seller, composers struggling to get music performed which results in a lack of income. Meanwhile, there are constant rants from people I know about not being accepted. Incidentally, many legendary composers weren't well-accepted while they were alive either.

I wasn't disagreeing with you But its really no different than other non-music departments in college being totally oblivious to whats outside their ivory tower, IMO. Business doesn't run how commerce profs would like, people don't read what english profs would like and the public sure as hell doesn't care that kanye and T pain can't sing to save their lives.

Oops, I totally overlooked the in your post.

You're completely right about them being oblivious to reality. I just took some time out to attend this semester and I am faced with the irrelevance of what I am doing. I'm not really learning anything that is helping me improve, I'm just doing the busy work so I can finish up. I completed my ear-training, theory, and other music classes years ago.

I just keep reminding myself that it won't last much longer.

 

[mixohoytian]

I'm not saying contemporary classical is not popular as a whole although it's not going to compete with John Mayer or Lady GaGa. I'm more specifically talking about certain teachers take on the genre. I've heard so much contemporary classical get trashed it's not even funny. A lot of it doesn't meet up with the snobbish standards. I just feel they are out of touch with current reality.[/quote]

I got a degree in music, but did not pursue a teaching credential
the truth is, whether its teaching or film scores, it's STILL a day job
I got some great advice from a composer, after I had already come to the same conclusion:
if you want to be a great composer, get a shit job, save your energy for composing at night and weekends

as far as I'm concerned, artistic music is disappearing. Classical music these days = film scores
I hate film
I believe it has ruined music
music exists to serve as a background for pretty faces pretending to do things on screen

 

[thisguy]

I got a degree in music, but did not pursue a teaching credential
the truth is, whether its teaching or film scores, it's STILL a day job
I got some great advice from a composer, after I had already come to the same conclusion:
if you want to be a great composer, get a shit job, save your energy for composing at night and weekends

as far as I'm concerned, artistic music is disappearing. Classical music these days = film scores
I hate film
I believe it has ruined music
music exists to serve as a background for pretty faces pretending to do things on screen

My biggest complaint is feeling the music I compose gets bastardized by making it fit in with what is expected. As a result, I don't even want anyone to hear it.

 

[mixohoytian]

My biggest complaint is feeling the music I compose gets bastardized by making it fit in with what is expected. As a result, I don't even want anyone to hear it.[/quote]



music that makes money = a day job
you need to separate music for music's sake and music for $

 

[thisguy]

I got a degree in music, but did not pursue a teaching credential
the truth is, whether its teaching or film scores, it's STILL a day job
I got some great advice from a composer, after I had already come to the same conclusion:
if you want to be a great composer, get a shit job, save your energy for composing at night and weekends

as far as I'm concerned, artistic music is disappearing. Classical music these days = film scores
I hate film
I believe it has ruined music
music exists to serve as a background for pretty faces pretending to do things on screen

music that makes money = a day job
you need to separate music for music's sake and music for $



My biggest complaint is feeling the music I compose gets bastardized by making it fit in with what is expected. As a result, I don't even want anyone to hear it.

You've got the quotes all screwed up.

 

[mixohoytian]

I know I just fixed it via edit I think
(I'm at my shit job)

 

[thisguy]

music that makes money = a day job
you need to separate music for music's sake and music for $

Yeah, that 's what I'm doing. I got the same advice from others who were successful in the program. Some of those people felt the same way about there music too.

The thing is I'm not getting paid for this music and I don't respect it either. The best way for me to look at is to compare it to an essay in where you didn't like the book/idea and don't agree with the point of view you have to take for the teacher to not hate it. You just do it and get through the class.

 

[mixohoytian]

music that makes money = a day job
you need to separate music for music's sake and music for $

Yeah, that 's what I'm doing. I got the same advice from others who were successful in the program. Some of those people felt the same way about there music too.

The thing is I'm not getting paid for this music and I don't respect it either. The best way for me to look at is to compare it to an essay in where you didn't like the book/idea and don't agree with the point of view you have to take for the teacher to not hate it. You just do it and get through the class.

well school is one thing
I never felt connected to my schoolwork
wrote fugues etc...
with me: I took everything I learned and put it into my own music that satisfies me, and involves my guitar + pop/jazz etc...
I didn't really want to be a classical composer
but someday I might...if I do, it will be unique, having little to do with school
my fav composer's are Martinu & Prokofiev.....2 that were kind of on the outskirts...not mainstream
you:
if you are really into modern classical, then do whatever to make money and put your energy into REAL study (post school) and crafting your art
and don't come in here, cause you'll throw it all away just to touch an axe fx

 

[ejecta]

I agree that is akin to theft. I understand the frustration. I honestly don't know that it matters to the average musician. The big names are still going to make big money. The little names are still going to make little money. The only difference is the record labels aren't making the same bucks they were 20 years ago.

Is the difference between Scott Henderson's success or failure in his CD sales? I very seriously doubt it. That is going to apply to 99% of musicians out there. Hell, if it weren't for youtube (free) or internet forums (free) I wouldn't know who the hell Scott Henderson was. At least now if I knew he was playing a gig locally I might go check him out. I would buy a cd if I were into his stuff.

The key before was air play. Without exposure, you weren't making money. That hasn't changed. The only thing that has changed is the control of "air play", which is now more demand driven as opposed to who and what you listened to was being decided for you.

There may be a handful of bands that cd sales ultimately determine their fate....but very few.

But your points make too much sense.

Fact is if you want to make more money making music you are going to have to give more people the music they want to hear. The more people you reach the more you make regardless of downloads. This to some means you have to compromise the music you play. If you want to play music that it so out of the box that only Jazz freaks want to hear then that's your choice but don't bitch that you have to have a day job because you chose to write music to a small pool of people. That said the public isnt always wanting to be feed pitch corrected crap either. People do like new music.... but you can't take it so far out that you lose people.

I had a painting teacher tell me once.... if you want to be a true artist then sit at home and paint and sell your paintings but you better have a real career or if you want to make living being artistic you better get into commercial art and be willing to give the people what they want and put just little of yourself in there to satisfy your artistic side. After 15 years in the artistic field of print, animation, and now jewelry design those words were some of the best I've had.

 

[mixohoytian]

I had a painting teacher tell me once.... if you want to be a true artist then sit at home and paint and sell your paintings but you better have a real career or if you want to make living being artistic you better get into commercial art and be willing to give the people what they want and put just little of yourself in there to satisfy your artistic side. After 15 years in the artistic field of print, animation, and now jewelry design those words were some of the best I've had.[/quote]

this is truth
my brother made a great living painting children's stories for disney etc..
he gave it all up to become a missionary, now for the 1st time, he paints because he wants to paint


music is the same

 

[thisguy]

music that makes money = a day job
you need to separate music for music's sake and music for $

Yeah, that 's what I'm doing. I got the same advice from others who were successful in the program. Some of those people felt the same way about there music too.

The thing is I'm not getting paid for this music and I don't respect it either. The best way for me to look at is to compare it to an essay in where you didn't like the book/idea and don't agree with the point of view you have to take for the teacher to not hate it. You just do it and get through the class.

well school is one thing
I never felt connected to my schoolwork
wrote fugues etc...
with me: I took everything I learned and put it into my own music that satisfies me, and involves my guitar + pop/jazz etc...
I didn't really want to be a classical composer
but someday I might...if I do, it will be unique, having little to do with school
my fav composer's are Martinu & Prokofiev.....2 that were kind of on the outskirts...not mainstream
you:
if you are really into modern classical, then do whatever to make money and put your energy into REAL study (post school) and crafting your art
and don't come in here, cause you'll throw it all away just to touch an axe fx

I'm not really into modern classical. I don't hate it but it isn't what I want to do. I am doing this because my degree was close to being finished so I decided to go finish it.

I'll be okay, I'm just trying to get myself more motivated to get things done.

 

[thisguy]

I had a painting teacher tell me once.... if you want to be a true artist then sit at home and paint and sell your paintings but you better have a real career or if you want to make living being artistic you better get into commercial art and be willing to give the people what they want and put just little of yourself in there to satisfy your artistic side. After 15 years in the artistic field of print, animation, and now jewelry design those words were some of the best I've had.

This is a better solution to me. Find a balance between your art and what the public can digest. I'm not interested in making art that no one hears, I want people to enjoy it.