mojotone
New member
SED =C= are second only to Sylvania 6CA7's as far as I am concerned.
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guitarman967
New member
Sorry to disagree about your favorite tubes man, didnt know you were this sensitive about it.. Now youre taking ball and going home huh? Damn, my bad..JTyson":dqo8bgcz said:guitarman967":dqo8bgcz said:, my opinion is worth as much as your's and any builder. Builder's are builders, but not always guitar players, they have their vision, and I have mine. You're sold on the notion that any builder's opinion automatically trumps the customers they're selling the amps to. It's actually the other way around!
So stop with your superiority complex would ya?
You came in and acted like a prick, so I called it like I saw it... It happens..
Maybe you should put on your big-boy panties before you come in and say things like "my opinion is worth as much as any builders" and try to convince an entire thread of people who think SED's are better because of years of trial and error that they are all full of shit.
Maybe you could test your own theory and take a poll here to see how many people here value your opinion as much as the builders we have here. I'm sure that will turn out well for you
I'm done here, Trust me when I say I really could not possibly care any less than I do about this
blackba
Well-known member
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just42dave
Well-known member
i have a few quads for sale
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RG955TT
New member
I like winged C's too & they do last but for me and the Bogner 20th the EL34BHT's are where it's at in my 20th XTC. Better fuller bottom end, great mids and present but not overbearing top end. Like em so much I bought 3 spare sets from Doug's Tubes in case they don't keep selling them. SED's are in my 101B and they sound a bit thinner to me at lower stage controlled volumes and brighter on the top end for what I like but if that's your thing they do sound sweet. My 2 cents...YMMV...
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guitarman967
New member
Wait, what's this? Havent you heard the word?RG955TT":1kkm0gqo said:
Only SED tubes are good enough for the rig talk majority!
Your opinion is not valid. Big name builders who know more about tone than you, DO NOT agree!!!!
Sorry guys.
EnGl
New member
guitarman967":3g3h88r6 said:Wait, what's this? Havent you heard the word?RG955TT":3g3h88r6 said:
Only SED tubes are good enough for the rig talk majority!
Your opinion is not valid. Big name builders who know more about tone than you, DO NOT agree!!!!
A bird is the word
napalmdeath
Well-known member
guitarman967":3bwqy5sh said:Hmm, I dont know, your post sounds fairly fanboyish to me. Proving my point accidentally?
Youre dropping big names and including ALL tube vendors to prove that theses power tubes are supposedly "better".
So let me get this straight, you say, don't bother with the alternatives because Mike Fortin says so? And Mike Fortin knows what type of sound is best for me?
Sounds more like a case of "these arent the droids you're looking for", than cold hard facts!
Also , guys who build amps for a living think SED's are best? Funny, I don't see many off the shelf amps with a quad of SED's in them. Vast minority actually. We're talking 1%
You'd probably also have me believe that you could tell the difference between all your other tubes and the SED's in a blind test, right? I mean, thats how you came to these emphatic conclusions, right?
Hey man, It's your opinion, you're entitled to it, I'm simply stating that these tubes are not the best "value" nor are the worth the pricing upcharge.
That's my opinion after my own testing ( nothing strictly scientific, mind you) and I'll stick to it. Beyond that, they simply do not sound best in every amp I have.
By the way, I've have a set of JJ's last longer than the SED's before, it CAN happen.
I agree. SED is a fanboy tube - just like the Camerons & Friedmans. It's just "cool" to spend $80 on a pair of SED's. I don't believe they are "THE BEST", and all this B.S. in these posts would lead one to believe they have the BEST bass, BEST mids, BEST highs, BEST harmonic detail, BEST, BEST, BEST. I say bullshit. I buy my non-J.J. tubes from Doug Preston, and guess what, he doesn't recommend the SED's off the bat. I just sold 2 pairs of SED's, because the KT77's do more of what I want in the JVM. I have Svetlana EL34's, JJ KT77's, JJ 6CA7's, E34L's, and SED's. Go ahead, drop a wad of cash on a quad of SED's, it's your choice. But, I wouldn't based on B.S. you read on the net. For pure, raw aggressive tone in an EL34-based amp, KT77's edge the SED's in terms of tone, at half the price, in my opinion.
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Racerxrated
Well-known member
My opinion is only based on the tubes I've had in MY amps..I certainly haven't tried ALL types of EL34s in the Marshalls that I've had. I've had so many Marshalls in and out of my house over the past 5 years and the tubes they've come with have mostly been JJ. They sound good..but then I bought a pair of used Cs and it made the 800 I had sound BETTER to my ears. The Siemens EL34s sound as good as the Cs to me also..but EHs, GTs, Penta and others just didn't sound as good to me so I stick with the Cs. BTW most of the Marshalls I've bought lately have come with Cs so I've really only paid for 1 pair, and they were used anyway. I just ship the Marshalls I haven't kept with the JJs and others..I keep the Cs. Maybe I need to try KT77s..hmmm.. 
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guitarman967
New member
Dont get me wrong, Winged C are good tubes. Possibly the best choice depending on the amp and user. Ive had a few amps where they worked really well.Racerxrated":3u3kjgqi said:My opinion is only based on the tubes I've had in MY amps..I certainly haven't tried ALL types of EL34s in the Marshalls that I've had. I've had so many Marshalls in and out of my house over the past 5 years and the tubes they've come with have mostly been JJ. They sound good..but then I bought a pair of used Cs and it made the 800 I had sound BETTER to my ears. The Siemens EL34s sound as good as the Cs to me also..but EHs, GTs, Penta and others just didn't sound as good to me so I stick with the Cs. BTW most of the Marshalls I've bought lately have come with Cs so I've really only paid for 1 pair, and they were used anyway. I just ship the Marshalls I haven't kept with the JJs and others..I keep the Cs. Maybe I need to try KT77s..hmmm..
I think its worth mentioning that in my experience power tubes have an optimal bias setting. If I want a tight punchy attack, a more negative bias usually does the trick.
Sometimes Its tough to compare tube brands when there's other factors that can affect performance. That being said, I still think that certain amps and playing styles may benefit from other tubes other than Winged C's. They are not a magic wand of tone. The best tone is not automatic because the most money has been spent.
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baron55
Active member
Doesn't really matter what power tubes people use. I think the original post was what would people here recommend. And many recommend SED.
Basically in the late 80's the Siemens EL34's were running out and there were no alternative quality EL34's. The Sovteks at the time were firecrackers, and the Chinese were worse. The Tesla factory closed and their just was no good alternative. Marshall and others started making their amps with the commonly had 5881WXt from Sovtek, this tube really wasn't a 5881 or even a 6L6, still isn't. But a Russian military tube with similar specs and could handle high voltages and power. These were also stock tubes in SLO's at the time too.
Then in the early 90's a company in St. Petersburg Russia started making a EL34, designed to handle overload conditions found in guitar amps. These tubes were as good as the NOS Siemens and were better than any other tube at the time in the EL34 category. Marshall started back up with EL34 based production. The SED was the only EL34 people would buy at the time. The SED is the only current production tube that can handle 500 volts on the screens. No others can. Thus the bullet proof reputation of the SED.
SED's have more of the vintage EL34 tone and are harder sounding and more mid focused. Players that favor vintage style amps love these, thus the love. But if you are a modern player and want more bass and less mids and more compression, then the JJ and Chinese tubes are popular.
The SED EL34 is better built, more rugged and will last longer plain and simple than the other tubes mentioned here. Whether or not you like the tone is something else.
Yes they are more money, but if you replace them less then it is a wash. Tube manufactures do not make tubes as good as they could because they need to have us keep buying them.
SED have always been the more expensive tube, but since they are much more of a lower volume factory, and the tubes are replaced less often, they charge more.
So as far as taste on what tubes to buy that is up to you, just like the amp and guitar you play.
My favorite preamp tubes are the Chinese, my favorite EL34 is the SED, my favorite KT88 is SED, a close Second is the Penta Labs (Shuguang) KT88SC which ironically is a outstanding tube that costs the same as the SED. 3rd is the KT88-88 that is re-branded by Ruby and Valve art (Shuguang made)
Some of the Sovtek tubes are good (Electro Harmonix, Tung Sol, Mullard, Genelex, Gold Lion)
Buy the way how come no one bitches about the cost of the Genalex (Sovtek) KT77, same cost as the SED's (80.00 a pair)
Basically in the late 80's the Siemens EL34's were running out and there were no alternative quality EL34's. The Sovteks at the time were firecrackers, and the Chinese were worse. The Tesla factory closed and their just was no good alternative. Marshall and others started making their amps with the commonly had 5881WXt from Sovtek, this tube really wasn't a 5881 or even a 6L6, still isn't. But a Russian military tube with similar specs and could handle high voltages and power. These were also stock tubes in SLO's at the time too.
Then in the early 90's a company in St. Petersburg Russia started making a EL34, designed to handle overload conditions found in guitar amps. These tubes were as good as the NOS Siemens and were better than any other tube at the time in the EL34 category. Marshall started back up with EL34 based production. The SED was the only EL34 people would buy at the time. The SED is the only current production tube that can handle 500 volts on the screens. No others can. Thus the bullet proof reputation of the SED.
SED's have more of the vintage EL34 tone and are harder sounding and more mid focused. Players that favor vintage style amps love these, thus the love. But if you are a modern player and want more bass and less mids and more compression, then the JJ and Chinese tubes are popular.
The SED EL34 is better built, more rugged and will last longer plain and simple than the other tubes mentioned here. Whether or not you like the tone is something else.
Yes they are more money, but if you replace them less then it is a wash. Tube manufactures do not make tubes as good as they could because they need to have us keep buying them.
SED have always been the more expensive tube, but since they are much more of a lower volume factory, and the tubes are replaced less often, they charge more.
So as far as taste on what tubes to buy that is up to you, just like the amp and guitar you play.
My favorite preamp tubes are the Chinese, my favorite EL34 is the SED, my favorite KT88 is SED, a close Second is the Penta Labs (Shuguang) KT88SC which ironically is a outstanding tube that costs the same as the SED. 3rd is the KT88-88 that is re-branded by Ruby and Valve art (Shuguang made)
Some of the Sovtek tubes are good (Electro Harmonix, Tung Sol, Mullard, Genelex, Gold Lion)
Buy the way how come no one bitches about the cost of the Genalex (Sovtek) KT77, same cost as the SED's (80.00 a pair)
shane159
New member
I have =C='s in my Shiva ,but for shits and giggles, I popped in a set of Ruby BSTR's and I like them better. They seem larger and clearer sounding than the Winged C's. In my JVM the Winged C's sounded better than anything I tried, so I really do think it depends on the amp.
EnGl
New member
Damn, thanks guys.
Well, I see that C get so many love ...
You know , I want to buy C not only because of tone.Quality and reliability is on the top of my list. And I know they are very robust , can handle 500 PV or even more.
Not many tubes can handle my amp plate voltage(480) so I'm searching for the best reliability.
I was interested also in JJ 6CA7 (they can handle 500pv) but meh ... We all know the JJ quality.
Well, I see that C get so many love ...
You know , I want to buy C not only because of tone.Quality and reliability is on the top of my list. And I know they are very robust , can handle 500 PV or even more.
Not many tubes can handle my amp plate voltage(480) so I'm searching for the best reliability.
I was interested also in JJ 6CA7 (they can handle 500pv) but meh ... We all know the JJ quality.
shane159
New member
The JJ 6ca7's were way to boomy for me.
EnGl
New member
shane159":3khutz1a said:
You know , It's not about the tone , it's about reliability. And we all know that JJ don't have good rep
80% of tone is in the preamp (at least in 6505 series) and the rest is only subtle difference.
And is there something in tubes like "break in" period ? You know , the same thing with speakers ...
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baron55
Active member
EnGl":3bo0fnbg said:
It is not plate voltage that's the issue, never has been. ALL EL34's can handle 800 volts on the plates no problem, that is minim design spec. Plates don't usually fail unless you have a catastrophic bias runaway. The max design spec limit on screen voltage is 425v to 450v. Most of the Mullards were 425V.
It is the screen voltage that is a tubes limiting factor. Most of the large bottle power tubes were always designed to have the screens run 40% to 50% less than the plate voltage. So if you ran a set of EL34's at 800 volts, the screen would be run at 320 to 400 volts. This would require dual power supplies or 40% taps on the OT which is common in Bass and Hi Fi amps.
But the early guitar amp manufactures wanted to save money, so instead, they tied the screen voltage to the same power supply with just a tad more filtration and usually put a inline series resistance. (aka screen resistor) The screen resistor is supposed to limit current as the screens try to pull current, this causes the voltage to drop hopefully enough to prevent screen meltdown.
The problem, is is you start with the screen voltage above the max limit, (most big guitar amps run 450 and above on the screens) then the chance of failure is much higher.
Most people who talk about plate voltage too high don't understand what they are talking about. Now that comment wasn't directed at anyone here, but to the supposed gurus who think they know. Also the tube companies and vendors spew the same crap, can handle the higher plate voltages, etc.
In most big guitar amps, we run the tubes way out of design spec for the sake of tone. Since the scrrens run pretty close to the plates, is where the misleading plate voltage limitation comes from.
Since SED's had beefed up screens (500v) they were able to much better able to handle the high screen voltages found in most guitar amps.
EnGl
New member
baron55":hjh7veww said:
Thanks , I know that the screens are more harder factor than plates. And as you mentioned - most of el34 can handle 425 or 450.
My amp has 480 PV ( I found info on the net - guy measured pv in 6534 and it was 480 so I don't ever measured this) so the screens can be lower ? I mean 460 or 470 ? (This is what some user pointed )
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baron55
Active member
EnGl":15iy53vs said:
It depends on the amp, many mass produced amps like Peaveys, don't use chokes. Instead they use a resistor, this adds to the screen resistor resistance and in many causes causes the screen voltages to drop to safer levels.
One thing you see a lot is guys replacing that resistor with a choke, in doing so, unless they adrees the screen rersistors or volatge node, they could be raising the screens above their design limit. EL34 screens are the most sensitive and fragile of the power tubes.
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Rogue
New member
Why do the screens have a different voltage with a choke than a resistor?baron55":2580gf3k said:
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baron55
Active member
Rogue":12hbqjl7 said:
Why do mass produced amps not use chokes? Simple, cost. Resistors are pennies, chokes are 10 to 20 bucks a pop.
The resistor/capacitor and choke/capacitor network are designed to do the same thing, remove the ripple in the DC voltage. The big difference between the two, is that as the current draw in the amp increases the resistor/capacitor network will drop the voltage much more than the choke/capacitor network. Since the choke is an inductor, current flowing through sort of creates a energized effects which results in less voltage drop. The choke/capacitor network is more effective and the design of the choke makes a big impact on how the amp sounds and feels. Thus the reason larger botique amps use them still.