Tube Thread 2025..........

[Erock]

Anyone have suggestions for good eBay or Reverb sellers with NOS tubes? ie. GE, Siemens, Mullard, RFT, etc... ?

 

[The~Kid]

Anyone have suggestions for good eBay or Reverb sellers with NOS tubes? ie. GE, Siemens, Mullard, RFT, etc... ?

Yeah I do but kind of don't want to see those dry up.........


As dry as they are already......


JK honestly look up some Hammond vintage relabled 12AX7...... if it ain't NOS no biggie those Hammond preamps were ever hardly pushed hard in those things ever......... and they are tried and true and can be had for a song and are pretty much White GE labled 12AX7 but relabled for Hammond.



Honestly...... just get a Mullard RI or Sovtek LPS for the same money and you'll have an as good tube or better but if your looking for vintage check those out.

 

[The~Kid]

These things don't sound so bad........ Going into my Epi 59 Standard with Burstbucker 3 in bridge and Burstbucker 2 in neck.......


Not half bad........ I like them


Groove Tube 12AX7-C current production in V2, Sovtek LPS in V1, Tungsol RI 12AX7 in V3 with TungSol RI EL84 in the power amp section of an AC15C1 Vox current production.

 

[The~Kid]

I like modern short-plate tubes in some of my amps, expecially combo amps.

I always prefer an NOS if I can get one in there in some spot but not always feasible.

I will say that I have some Ruby's in an amp and Groove Tubes, and some nice shuguangs before all of the stuff happened over there that have kicked around here a long time, in a good way. I do not always think the tone has the most 'dimension' with these tubes but they are clear, quiet, and have held steady through some definite abuse.

When I was doing different output tube testing, the Shug El84s had the best sound overall, even over an older Mullard, at least in my little Vox.

They did not have the same warmth and soundstage as the RCA I tried in there, but the specific one I had had a ring to it, and could not be used in combo amps.

I may get a set or a quad of Shuguangs for backups.

Mainly a TungSol El84 guy but Shugs have a great tone and sound better than JJs for sure.

 

[CDawg]

Anyone have suggestions for good eBay or Reverb sellers with NOS tubes? ie. GE, Siemens, Mullard, RFT, etc... ?

I'll buy off anyone with good measurements/reviews. I've cross referenced a lot of people using various testers and 98% of the time I felt people were making a good attempt to be accurate and honest.

For American tubes... I've bought a lot of tubes from Michelle's Electronic Tubes n More and Tube Maze over the years and always been happy. For European stuff I'd look at Alibossa or Euroklang.

 

[The~Kid]

And well when it comes to tone......



Tone is Tone........




And as much as I'd like to buy Western Tubes or Western Tube in this case because the only country in the "West" that makes tubes is JJ in Slovakia but they are such complete ass.......... and are complete garbage IMO and IME vs Russian or Chinese Tubes.........


I like quality tubes and quality Tone and that is what Russian and Chinese tubes bring.........


Otherwise I mean maybe there should be more options aside from two countries against US and Western interest in general making great tubes......... and the only other manufacturer that happens to be aligned with the West happens to make shit tubes.......



Can't a factory be made in Vietnam, India, Mexico........... Guatemala or Salvador....... or hell Fort Wayne, Indiana.........



Where technology from the 40s or earlier is made...... it isn't so fucking hard to imagine or make......


Jeezus lighters are older than fucking Tubes........ yet BIC could make affordable lighters in France, Spain and the USA......




What's the excuse for not making affordable tubes in the West aside from the garbage Slovakia churns out.........




What's so fucking hard about making a fucking tube?



And Yeah hey Fender, Mesa, Top $$$$$$ Boutique Amp Manufacturers.......... You take so much fucking pride in making things in the USA or well maybe as far away from China/Russia as anyone would like to think...... and use garbage tubes from JJ/Slovakia and say it's good enough because it ain't from China/Russia........ yet JJ tubes ate complete shit........




I'm just tired of buying into this "Everything From The West is Better" mentality in gear........ when yeah for the most part American amps IMO are that much better than import counterparts save for a few examples and even then......... even then we see American amps and big $$$$$$ BOUTIQUE AMPS......... BEING SOLD WITH SHIT JJ TUBES.......



Let's face it....... a lot of these companies such as Fender, Gibson/Mesa, Big Boutiques make a big clamour about how shit in the US is better or Western Products in general are better....... well.......



I agree with Western/American Amps being that much better than alot of import amps and not so much guitars where the QC has gotten that much higher and tighter but with amps yeah Western Made amps are that much better........ I mean why subsidize shitty tubes only made in one western region of the world such as JJ while they make garbage and not use Russian/Chinese Tubes that are that much better than any garbage coming out of Slovakia or the JJ FACTORY.......



And if you are going to supply Western Tubes at least make them actually good or hey if JJ ain't making good tubes and the industry like Fender, Mesa and all these other Blue Blood Boutiques in America are still set on about using Western Tubes......... subsidize and invest in India, Vietnam, Mexico or anywhere outside of China/Russia/Slovakia.......



And make quality tubes in the West in India, Vietnam, Mexico etc etc etc hell make them in Fort Wayne, Indiana as as said as it's been shown it's pretty much the same as slave labor or as competitive to do so vs China/Russia per SweetWaters example.

 

[The~Kid]

What pisses me off about threads like this is well.....



JJ tubes are garbage and should be better........ Fender/Mesa and well any other manufacturer in the US worth a fuck especially the Big Name Boutiques should give a fuck more......


And not just pretend JJ TUBES are good and only have that as a source for tubes pretty much.....



What pisses me off is I don't actually want to buy Chinese/Russian Tubes by principle but given how Fender/Mesa and every Big Boutique uses nothing but Garbage JJs...... Thats what I am forced to buy........ because the Chinese/Russian tubes are so much better.....





Because when it comes to tone I don't discriminate but at the same time hey maybe you big name fuckers over at Fender/Mesa...... Insert whatever big Boutique Name in the States "xxxx"(here)......... Ahem ahem nvm the big stores SweetWater/GC/MF....... who have a say in this shit too or Ruby Tubes or Groove Tubes or any other seller and supplier of tubes.....
.


Maybe fucking look for, subsidize, pay for whatever the fuck and make better tubes and alternatives to the shit they make at the JJ factory in Slovakia or as good or better than Russian/Chinese tubes.......







How hard is it to make tubes in Vietnam or India or Fort Wayne Indiana guys at Fender/Mesa/Big Boutiques and SWEETWATER....... how hard is it to make tubes here in the USA or in fucking Mexico or Guatemala or fuckign Brazil or Argentina or some shit........... anywhere other than Russia/China or the worst tubes from Slovakia/JJ........




BIC can make a FUCKING afforable lighter across the planet/globe from FRANCE/SPAIN/USA.......... What's your excuse

 

[The~Kid]

Pretty much aside from making this thread to bring attention to quality tubes in 2025......




Hey Fender/Mesa/USA Boutique Fucks.......




Invest in making quality tubes in the the West/USA and if not in the USA or Fort Wayne, Indiana you other fucks at SweetWater who have so much say in the industry....... make them in Vietnam, India or Mexico, Guatemala, Argentina, Brazil, Chile or something.........


Provide other options aside from Slovakia which are complete shit by the way or Chinese/Russian Tubes.....



As said BIC can make affordable lighters in France/Spain/USA....... so what's your fucking excuse Amp industry, Fender/Mesa/USA Boutique amp manufacturers


HAVE SOME FUCKING GUY ON ETSY MAKE TUBES FOR A DECENT PRICE......


Something......... this isn't rocket science and even lighters are as old or older technology..... yet BIC could make affordable lighters all across the fucking world.........



What's so hard about making fucking tubes that it can't be made outside of China/Russia or Slovakia!?!??!?

 

[The~Kid]

Let's face it Fort Wayne, Indiana USA is probably no better or actually worse than a sweatshop in China/Russia or Vietnam or Mexico............ as per SweetWaters example....... NVM Amazon and another type of sweatshop within the USA and another 3rd World Country whithin a 3rd World Country in the USA.



Why can't quality tubes be made there or other similar sweatshop 3rd World Like Countries within the United States or regions within the USA or other actual 3rd World Countries or pretty much 3rd World Countries....... like India, Mexico, Guatemala, Brazil, Argentina etc etc........




What's the excuse from Fender/Mesa other US Big Boutique Amp manufacturers for not investing in tubes other than the shit made in China/Russia or well the complete garbage/trash made in Slovakia by JJ TUBES.......




Especially given SweetWaters headquarters in Indiana at Fort Wayne and pretty much a 3rd World Country within a 3rd World Country in the US in Indiana (cheap prices/cheap labor/cheap pay/cheap State)......... if not there or some other place in the USA..... we have Vietnam, Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, Guatemala, India etc etc etc.


The world needs more tubes than just the whatever is coming out of China/Russia nvm by JJ/Slovakia.

 

[The~Kid]

It's not that fucking hard to make bulbs......... these things are fucking lightbulbs for Christ Fuckings Sake........



And the only options shouldn't be from China/Russia/Slovakia....



And well alot of these guys making a huff about how USA their products are ahem ahem ahem Fender/Mesa/Big Boutique manufacturers nvm well even owners like me who like American Amps.............. maybe state how much of the shit you guys make here isn't made in the USA or hell if it ain't made in places that make garbage tubes that happen to be Western Countries like JJ/Slovakia........



Maybe state how much of your "USA" product is not actually made in the USA or derives there from....... and well maybe make a point of how much of it is made in Russia/China being so proud of making "American Whatever the Fuck".................. maybe use Chinese/Russian tubes for the fact they are actually better than. garbage made in Slovakia/JJ short of any other Western alternatives





Pretty much until the big FuckTards at Fender/Mesa/Big Boutique USA Amp Manufacturers move away from keeping to ask for the same old same old shit from JJ/Slovakia and having the only other alternatives be from China/Russia........ all I'm buying are Russian/Chinese tubes.




Tone is Tone and well yeah Western Countries aren't making tubes worth a fucking shit or damn.......... The only Western Country making Tubes is Slovakia/JJ and they are complete shit/trash/garbage.

 

[CDawg]

There's about a dozen other tube manufacturers I can think of but they mainly cater to other tube gear like hifi.

$575 USD for a 5U4G from KR Audio Czech Republic, $375 USD for a 5U4G from Emission Labs Czech Republic or $300 USD for a 5U4G from Straditube out of South Korea. A USA NOS 5U4G is about $35 USD. JJ 5U4G $25 USD. How would you like to fill that Triple Rectifier? Give it 5 years and I bet some of those guys will be making high quality 12AX7s.

I think the best strategy for getting good gear affordably is begging large corporations to return. I want the successful companies that walked away from audio for more money to start making guitar gear as a pet project. Companies like GE, NEC, Philips, Siemens, etc. need to just come back.

 

[The~Kid]

There's about a dozen other tube manufacturers I can think of but they mainly cater to other tube gear like hifi.

$575 USD for a 5U4G from KR Audio Czech Republic, $375 USD for a 5U4G from Emission Labs Czech Republic or $300 USD for a 5U4G from Straditube out of South Korea. A USA NOS 5U4G is about $35 USD. JJ 5U4G $25 USD. How would you like to fill that Triple Rectifier? Give it 5 years and I bet some of those guys will be making high quality 12AX7s.

I think the best strategy for getting good gear affordably is begging large corporations to return. I want the successful companies that walked away from audio for more money to start making guitar gear as a pet project. Companies like GE, NEC, Philips, Siemens, etc. need to just come back.

I mean something needs to be done......

Only tubes worth it that actually sound good are Chinese/Russian....... Slovakian tubes are the only other option but they are complete ass.


I just don't figure it's so hard to make a tube and yeah they can be made in India, Mexico, Guatemala or Fort Wayne Indiana....... or in Southern CA or Texas or something.....


Maybe like a Coke Glass bottle factory could be retrofitted to make tubes since they already make glass.......


This is technology from the 40s, it's not AI/Quantum Computing

 

[bigviolin]

Material acquisition and environmental laws provide some pretty big hurdles to opening a tube manufacturing plant in the US. Combine that with a very small and ever shrinking market…

As much as I’d love to see it happen I don’t think it’s a viable investment.

 

[The~Kid]

Material acquisition and environmental laws provide some pretty big hurdles to opening a tube manufacturing plant in the US. Combine that with a very small and ever shrinking market…

As much as I’d love to see it happen I don’t think it’s a viable investment.

Then get rid of them.......

They were put in place and they can be removed or deregulated...... part of the reason glass bottles aren't made in CA anymore or at all is for the same reason yet we can make them easily, cost effective and quality too..... only reason we don't is these stupid environmental laws......


And if not here in CA or Texas or Indiana..... what's stopping the big guys at Fender/Mesa/Big Boutique Amp manufacturers from seeking tubes be made in Mexico, India, Brazil or Guatemla or something.

 

[bigviolin]

Investment costs vs return. If it made sense they would already be doing it.

 

[The~Kid]

Investment costs vs return. If it made sense they would already be doing it.

It makes sense given the subpar quality of Slovakian JJ tubes...... and the only alternatives that are actually good being from countries not particularly friendly to the US like China/Russia.


It makes every bit of sense to do so especially now more than ever.


And as far as investment/returns I could see that playing out in favor of investors at tube factories in Mexico, Guatemala, India or even Fort Wayne Indiana given how SweetWater can run a 3rd World Country operation out of there within the US and be successful or anywhere in the US given Amazons example also running 3rd World Country operations within the US already nvm other industries as well....... why can't they or others with the means do the same for tubes there or any of the other places mentioned......



BIC Pens and BIC lighters and BIC can do it....... why can't the music industry........

 

[The~Kid]

BIC found a way to make products here in the USA as efficiently and as cost effective as possible...... The music industry as a whole in 2025 can't do the same for some technology from the 40's such as tubes......


And if China/Russia/Slovakia can do it we can do it better here or if not here in the US it could be done in Mexico, India, Vietnam etc etc etc.


I call BS and yeah the industry and consumers need other viable options for tubes outside of China/Russia/Slovakia in 2025.

 

[CDawg]

I mean something needs to be done......

Only tubes worth it that actually sound good are Chinese/Russian....... Slovakian tubes are the only other option but they are complete ass.


I just don't figure it's so hard to make a tube and yeah they can be made in India, Mexico, Guatemala or Fort Wayne Indiana....... or in Southern CA or Texas or something.....


Maybe like a Coke Glass bottle factory could be retrofitted to make tubes since they already make glass.......


This is technology from the 40s, it's not AI/Quantum Computing

I think JJ, New Sensor, Psvane and Shuguang will be the only game in town for a few more years and they have the economy of scale thing down. Any of the other companies would be considered boutique and I don't see them making a 12AX7 for less than $150 USD.

That's why I'm going to beg. GE 70 billion in revenue. NEC 25 billion in revenue. Philips 20 billion in revenue. Siemens 85 billion in revenue. All those guys have billions. They already made tubes in the past and can do it again. They STILL make tubes right now including USA and Europe. Look at what an X Ray tube costs lol. It just gets worse after you see what an X Ray tube costs.

 

[The~Kid]

I think JJ, New Sensor, Psvane and Shuguang will be the only game in town for a few more years and they have the economy of scale thing down. Any of the other companies would be considered boutique and I don't see them making a 12AX7 for less than $150 USD.

That's why I'm going to beg. GE 70 billion in revenue. NEC 25 billion in revenue. Philips 20 billion in revenue. Siemens 85 billion in revenue. All those guys have billions. They already made tubes in the past and can do it again. They STILL make tubes right now including USA and Europe. Look at what an X Ray tube costs lol. It just gets worse after you see what an X Ray tube costs.

Yup pretty much the only reason I buy Russian or Chinese tubes reluctantly is because they are like the only tubes worth a damn now tone wise......... and pretty much the only places that make tubes aside from Slovakia/JJ that are any decent.

I'm not complaining about quality but however it's done the market just needs more sources for tubes outside of just three countries IMO. At somepoint given volatility in supply chain its just not going to be viable anymore or sustainable and well the industry should think ahead and seek other sources IMO if not from America then Mexico, Vietnam, India, Indonesia etc etc etc.

 

[The~Kid]

Also I mean just looking at how they make tubes now at Shuguang without knowing much about how to actually make a tube and then looking at how a place like Volkswagen, Tesla or even BIC make stuff in 2025 for example and have highly or fully automated processes and manufacturing lines........


It's pretty much like a 1920s way of making and manufacturing things vs the 21st century way of making things........


There is a lot of room for improvement in the manufacturing of tubes to not just increase efficiency and lower cost but make them even that much better and consistent and IMO it's time the music industry does the responsible thing and move production of tubes to the West in any capacity and if not in America then Mexico, India, Vietnam, Indonesia etc etc etc.


It's not just the responsible thing to do it's thinking ahead because the Status Quo is simply unsustainable IMO.