Sell your mark IIC+: the black album was a mark 3.

I had a legit C+ DRG and a black-dot-upgraded-to-red-stripe III DRG at the same time, and with the III's presence turned down, it sounded the same to me as the C+. The C+ had softer attack and a bit more bloom to the notes. So I could tell them apart from their feel but not really their sound.
 
Meeotch said:
Sounds to me like you started this thread just to stir up some drama, and then complain about it. Exo said it best, your thread sucks donkey balls.

That being said, I'd really like to try a IVa some time.
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Im not upset in the least, I’m just laughing at people who think bob rock is some senile old man and confused, it’s just hillarious how butthurt these guys get about that MAYBE their beloved amp wasn’t used in the way they thought it was, same as with MOP. The fact that you can’t start a thread like this without guys taking it way too seriously, should tell you everything you need to know about how people feel about this subject.
 
I feel like vesmedic is at odds with people a lot. It is amusing. I don't care. But thing is, we now need to bring a c+ and a III and c++ and whatever iterations to my house. I will play them and tell you which is best. Ves medic will be there too. and Ultimate guitar guy is welcome too. It is the only thing that makes sense. I will wait here.
 
Smashedguitarist said:
I feel like vesmedic is at odds with people a lot. It is amusing. I don't care. But thing is, we now need to bring a c+ and a III and c++ and whatever iterations to my house. I will play them and tell you which is best. Ves medic will be there too. and Ultimate guitar guy is welcome too. It is the only thing that makes sense. I will wait here.
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Im in! I just call them like I see them bro, same as anyone else!
 
VESmedic said:
I’ve hinted at this before on this forum, and I knew I wouldn’t get anywhere without some kind of proof. I’ve seen pictures but I can’t find them at the moment. For anyone that has the AJFA box set, apparently hetfield talks about this as well and confirms it as well. But from the man himself, bob rock. It was a mark 3. Go to the 1:57:00 mark. I realize some won’t believe this or it won’t matter at all, but I still think it’s interesting how this 10k dollar amp has taken on this mythical proportions that stems mostly from
This record, Atleast a huge proportion of it. I never thought the C+ sounded anything like the black album to me personally, but the mark 3 does, and for AJFA as well: which they used a BBE on :) enjoy.

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I believe it for sure. the iva can REALLY nail the black album tones (i can do through the never pretty easily, especially with an eq in the loop to sculpt it just right), and the III green stripe is super close to IVa's, so no argument from me. I could listen to bob rock all day too... one of my idols. can he remember parameteric eq settings from the main board? that probably matters as much if not more. bottom line is.... you'll never really nail those tones, no matter how much loot u spend, unless you can hire bob :p
 
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Back to the video...I found a few things interesting for sure. First being, sometimes a very strange piece of gear OR the order things are setup on a pedalboard make all the difference in the world to a player. On my board I still have my SD1 and Danelectro EQ pedal hooked up, even though they rarely get used. I removed those two and when I ran the 72 Marshall it was not as pleasant sounding as before...I thought my tubes were on the way out. Then I hooked up those two pedals again, in the same sequence and there was the perfect tone (for me anyway). They are off though. Maybe they act as a buffer?
Another thing though, Bob Rock talks about the V30 being used mostly in the 80s to record. Problem is the first V30 was in 86 in the Marshall Studio 15...and the following year they went into the Jubilee cabs. So I'm not sure if that's quite accurate for bands he recorded pre 86.
Maybe his memory is not quite what it used to be; with the V30 statement that might be the case. Which would lend to question the Mark III statement.
 
Racerxrated said:
Back to the video...I found a few things interesting for sure. First being, sometimes a very strange piece of gear OR the order things are setup on a pedalboard make all the difference in the world to a player. On my board I still have my SD1 and Danelectro EQ pedal hooked up, even though they rarely get used. I removed those two and when I ran the 72 Marshall it was not as pleasant sounding as before...I thought my tubes were on the way out. Then I hooked up those two pedals again, in the same sequence and there was the perfect tone (for me anyway). They are off though. Maybe they act as a buffer?
Another thing though, Bob Rock talks about the V30 being used mostly in the 80s to record. Problem is the first V30 was in 86 in the Marshall Studio 15...and the following year they went into the Jubilee cabs. So I'm not sure if that's quite accurate for bands he recorded pre 86.
Maybe his memory is not quite what it used to be; with the V30 statement that might be the case. Which would lend to question the Mark III statement.
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I get this. I don't use any pedals now, but i used to have my full board setup. One time I tried to switch the order to something that made more sense to the way most people set it up, and it was horrible. Had to go right back to the way i had it.
 
NineShallDie said:
I just think Bob Rock have a hard time remembering the details 30 years afterwards.
I’d rather trust the pictures from the sessions showing the Mark IIC++ and Mark IV amps. As well as the 1991 interview with Hetfield saying he used the same Mark II he used on earlier albums. And if I remember correctly it was Toby Wright that said “I think they were Mark III” in the Justice box set, not Hetfield.

“Did you experiment with different amps and cabinets?


Hetfield: “We tried a bunch of amps, but I ended up using the same Mesa/Boogie Simulclass Mark II that I've used on the last three albums. In Los Angeles there are a million amps you can try out, but none of them were up to snuff.”

https://www.guitarworld.com/features/metallica-black-album-1991-interview
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you really think he had his bass up to 10 or were those random settings? i'm going with the later. you can never go by their exact settings in those pics, even if thats what they really used. its probably not even going to get you to what you'd consider "close". with those outboard parameterics, it could sound like literally anything.
 
Who would've thought that Randall Smith would one day create an amp that's still causing meltdowns on the internet 40 years later.
 
Kyrpajyra said:
Who would've thought that Randall Smith would one day create an amp that's still causing meltdowns on the internet 40 years later.
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No meltdowns here. Just guys not believing what a nearly 70 yr old producer/engineer really remembers. He could very easily be wrong.

I mean, if someone were to say that recording a 1x12 can sound just as good as a 4x12 for metal...well, that might cause a meltdown.
 
VESmedic said:
Not the point of my thread at all, don’t put words in my mouth homie. Your reaction and your hostility, was 100 percent the point. I needed a good laugh. Maybe some of your favorite albums were SOLELY ( keyword, by itself) with a mark series amp; I can’t think of one record I love that is solely a mark series amp: the only thing coming close to that for me is lamb of god, which sound great no doubt, but that’s about it for me.
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I ain't your homie and I am far from hostile. If you need a good laugh, go watch a funny video or sth.
 
JimAnsell said:
you really think he had his bass up to 10 or were those random settings? i'm going with the later. you can never go by their exact settings in those pics, even if thats what they really used. its probably not even going to get you to what you'd consider "close". with those outboard parameterics, it could sound like literally anything.
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That picture is not from the studio. It’s from Orion fest where they had some of their old gear on display for the audience. That was to show that the same amp that literally says MKIIC++ on front can be seen on pictures from the studio.

Yeah, looking at amp settings alone won’t get you the tone. Metallica always used parametric EQ’s with their Boogies.
But you’d be surprised how close you get to the Puppets tone using Flemming Rasmussen’s notes and using somewhat the same gear.
 
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Racerxrated said:
Back to the video...I found a few things interesting for sure. First being, sometimes a very strange piece of gear OR the order things are setup on a pedalboard make all the difference in the world to a player. On my board I still have my SD1 and Danelectro EQ pedal hooked up, even though they rarely get used. I removed those two and when I ran the 72 Marshall it was not as pleasant sounding as before...I thought my tubes were on the way out. Then I hooked up those two pedals again, in the same sequence and there was the perfect tone (for me anyway). They are off though. Maybe they act as a buffer?
Another thing though, Bob Rock talks about the V30 being used mostly in the 80s to record. Problem is the first V30 was in 86 in the Marshall Studio 15...and the following year they went into the Jubilee cabs. So I'm not sure if that's quite accurate for bands he recorded pre 86.
Maybe his memory is not quite what it used to be; with the V30 statement that might be the case. Which would lend to question the Mark III statement.
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I had that.., my amp sounded better with a digitech bad monkey in the chain. Turned off. I would have kept it there except I think it has a ground issue and started zapping me. So for what it cost me, I chucked it in my pedal bin.

What are those racked 500 series EQ? B&B EQ2.. google gave me nothing.
 
Kapo_Polenton said:
I had that.., my amp sounded better with a digitech bad monkey in the chain. Turned off. I would have kept it there except I think it has a ground issue and started zapping me. So for what it cost me, I chucked it in my pedal bin.

What are those racked 500 series EQ? B&B EQ2.. google gave me nothing.
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Try Aphex EQF-2. They were originally called B&B, but Aphex bought the company and changed the name, but they are exactly the same. Metallica used them a lot back in the day.
 
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