Sick & tired of chasing that recorded tone!

[black.shadow]

Yea, there is no bass in most of them. That said after adding bass I get even more irritated, because I start obsessing about the bass sound then. It does bring things somewhat close.

haha, it never ends!

 

[kasperjensen]

I find that dialling everything around noon seems to work good in a lot of cases (maybe with a slight edge on the treble), and a sm57 straight in the middle, gets 90% of the work done.
I might add (I use Logic 8) a Spreader and a dab of Exciter, which if done right does absolute wonders.
But I can spend sooooo much time in finding the harmonics, and all the rest of it, when it really does not make that big a difference.

Have you tried a re-amp box? I have not yet tried it out, but from what I gather its brilliant.

Another little neat trick (avant garde technique, but its interesting to experience with) that an engineer taught me was to dub a part with extreme settings. So first record the track with the bass on your amp dialled all the up, and the mid and treble all the way down. Then another track with the mid turned all the way up on the amp, and the bass and treble all the way down. Then treble all the way up and... Get me? (This would or course be less time consuming with a re-amp box).
Then you can effectively control the amps tonal balance in mix-down...

Just my 2p

 

[kasperjensen]

I am not sure that came out right... anyway... its just to enable you to EQ the guitar channel using the amps EQ, rather than the mixer or the programme.

 

[nbarts]

I am not sure that came out right... anyway... its just to enable you to EQ the guitar channel using the amps EQ, rather than the mixer or the programme.

WOW! That sounds insane! That's hellova lot work & I'm REALLY skeptical about the results form this technique. One thing for sure, it ain't gonna give the same sound you would have from dialing the EQ on your amp.

 

[kasperjensen]

Yeah I get what you mean... I still havent actually tried it out myself, but I am really curious as to how it would work. In theory it should produce a good result as you are just adjusting the volume of 3 EQ bands... And an EQ itself just being a frequency specific volume control... But thats in theory.
It could fall flat on it arse, in practical terms

I am going to have to try it out one of these days. I am really intrigued now.

However... I still think the way forward is a re-amping box.

 

[lolzgreg]

You guys added some more gas into the burning fire. Just made a new metal clip with Herbert.

Not for nothing, but I've never heard a recorded clip of a Herbert that was even remotely awesome.

If you said you're using an iso box and attempting to get huge metal tones, that's issue one.

Issue two, as mentioned, is that a solid bass tone is the foundation of a beastly guitar sound.

You need to toy with your rig more. Some of the best engineers use a single 57 on a cabinet into a preamp and so zero post-processing to get the tone they're after. I also go by this approach. Check these clips of Mike Fortin's Meathead; there is no post processing and they were recording with a 57 into a $300 dollar recording interface:

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=58365

 

[nbarts]

You guys added some more gas into the burning fire. Just made a new metal clip with Herbert.

Not for nothing, but I've never heard a recorded clip of a Herbert that was even remotely awesome.

If you said you're using an iso box and attempting to get huge metal tones, that's issue one.

Issue two, as mentioned, is that a solid bass tone is the foundation of a beastly guitar sound.

You need to toy with your rig more. Some of the best engineers use a single 57 on a cabinet into a preamp and so zero post-processing to get the tone they're after. I also go by this approach. Check these clips of Mike Fortin's Meathead; there is no post processing and they were recording with a 57 into a $300 dollar recording interface:

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=58365

Well, unfortunately I don't have the luxury of not using an isobox. I wish I did.

2nd, Herbert is capable of too many tones, so everyone has his own understanding of what it should sound like; this is not to say that I'm happy with the recorded tone I have, if I was this topic wouldn't be here. For instance your Fortin clip didn't do anything for me, so I guess there is the taste factor too.

 

[kasperjensen]

Do you have any particular sound you are going for? A reference maybe?

Or is just the overall result that you are not completely satisfied with?

 

[chunktone]

Ya, upgrading studio gear can be a never ending process. So many mics, pre's, compressors etc...We had a very well known producer interested in producing us...for a grand a song!He's probably worth much more than that, but that does not mean we have it! It just seems that theres no end to the things you can throw money at.

If you're talking about somebody that simply kicks bootay (i.e. not just "well known"), that's a reasonable price. I'm assuming the "producer" is also the recording engineer? Did he indicate how much his mastering house would charge? Or, would the mixing engineer be mastering also?

In any event, it seems expensive, but $1k a tune by somebody well known and *GOOD* is a bargain.

He produced all the RATT songs you've heard on the radio and quite a bit more. He's worth much more than what he was asking, but if you don't have it, you don't have it.

 

[TimLyons]

Truth be told, one of the main problems I hear is that you're taking a really close, dry metal tone and have the drums compressed and reverberated to hell and back (at least on a few of the clips, the others sounded similar in the drums but I couldn't tell the reverb for sure since they were never allowed to breathe). The guitars need to come down in the mix and need to be glued together with the rest a bit more, either with a multi-band compressor or some kind of small reverb... although you could always just make the drums a bit more dry as well - probably both.

Then you definitely need to add bass. Nothing fancy, but it would give the guitar more balls.

 

['63-Strat]

Truth be told, one of the main problems I hear is that you're taking a really close, dry metal tone and have the drums compressed and reverberated to hell and back (at least on a few of the clips, the others sounded similar in the drums but I couldn't tell the reverb for sure since they were never allowed to breathe). The guitars need to come down in the mix and need to be glued together with the rest a bit more, either with a multi-band compressor or some kind of small reverb... although you could always just make the drums a bit more dry as well - probably both.

Then you definitely need to add bass. Nothing fancy, but it would give the guitar more balls.

Agreed. Worrying about how the guitars sound on their own is kind of a futile exercise. I can't stress enough how much of an eye-opener it can be to hear how a lot of "heavy" guitar tracks sound on their own. Generally a lot less gain and bass than you'd think and then double/quadruple tracked. The heaviness really does come from how they fit in with the bass and drums IMO but ymmv. Without fail, they're almost always a lot boxier than many of us would consider to sound "good" on its own in the room.

 

[kasperjensen]

Truth be told, one of the main problems I hear is that you're taking a really close, dry metal tone and have the drums compressed and reverberated to hell and back (at least on a few of the clips, the others sounded similar in the drums but I couldn't tell the reverb for sure since they were never allowed to breathe). The guitars need to come down in the mix and need to be glued together with the rest a bit more, either with a multi-band compressor or some kind of small reverb... although you could always just make the drums a bit more dry as well - probably both.

Then you definitely need to add bass. Nothing fancy, but it would give the guitar more balls.

Agreed. Worrying about how the guitars sound on their own is kind of a futile exercise. I can't stress enough how much of an eye-opener it can be to hear how a lot of "heavy" guitar tracks sound on their own. Generally a lot less gain and bass than you'd think and then double/quadruple tracked. The heaviness really does come from how they fit in with the bass and drums IMO but ymmv. Without fail, they're almost always a lot boxier than many of us would consider to sound "good" on its own in the room.

I think that pretty much hits the nail on the head.

 

[stefvorcide]

Nbarts, I have the solution for you !! Buy a tape simulator, a mastering compressor, mastering EQ, and more mics...and maybe a reverb room like they used on the VH albums??

You'll be broke but happy, that's the most important part.

 

[nbarts]

Nbarts, I have the solution for you !! Buy a tape simulator, a mastering compressor, mastering EQ, and more mics...and maybe a reverb room like they used on the VH albums??

You'll be broke but happy, that's the most important part.

I'm afraid I am broke already!

 

[nbarts]

Truth be told, one of the main problems I hear is that you're taking a really close, dry metal tone and have the drums compressed and reverberated to hell and back (at least on a few of the clips, the others sounded similar in the drums but I couldn't tell the reverb for sure since they were never allowed to breathe). The guitars need to come down in the mix and need to be glued together with the rest a bit more, either with a multi-band compressor or some kind of small reverb... although you could always just make the drums a bit more dry as well - probably both.

Then you definitely need to add bass. Nothing fancy, but it would give the guitar more balls.

I actually do agree with you on that one, with exception that I think I need a whole new upfront sounding drums.

 

[kasperjensen]

I have had some great results with Superior Drums 2.0 by Toontrack.

 

[TimLyons]

I have had some great results with Superior Drums 2.0 by Toontrack.

Likewise. Good sounding stuff, and The Metal Foundry pack is also good, although kind of mislabeled since the drum sounds do damn good at things other than metal.