SLO vs. the ripoff Rev C Dual Recto- Have you actually played them both?

[cardinal]

I think you are right on the money at Mike being mainly upset about the rectos selling like hot cakes and him not making a dime from those sales.

I mean, if you thought you designed something original and saw something clearly inspired by it without attribution, would you be upset?

Seems like there's always two separate debates when this topic comes up. One is whether they sound the same (they don't, though you can get them in the same ballpark), and the other is the ethics of what Mesa did. Similar examples abound. Matchless made the DC30 when working, accurate AC30s where a bit hard to find. They sound different but again there's overlap. Vemuram makes a pedal that's very nearly the Timmy but tweaked. Bassman/JTM45.

 

[311boogieman]

Here is the flip side of the whole argument.

What if there had been strict patent/circuit type regulations and enforcement. Meaning everyone had to come up with their own thing with very LITTLE overlap?

 

[Dale B]

YT link: Friedman and Soldano discuss the Mesa/SLO similarities

I've owned both the Rev C and the SLO at the same time. Dave pretty much sums it up in the video. The power sections are completely different. The RevC I had was pushing about 445 vDC on the plates. The SLOs I've had were putting well over 500 vDC on the plates of the power tubes. The output transformers are different. The SLO is a HiFi OT, and the Recto's is underspec'd to bring on the whole "core saturation" thing earlier, like the rest of their amps.

The EQ controls behave similarly. Without the depth mod engaged on the SLO, notice how the lead channel starts getting fatter around 10:00. The Rev C does the same damn thing.

I used to play harder stuff on both. The SLO will do whatever you want it to do. It depends on how you play and what you're playing. Quit focusing on just amps and play your guitars, folks. That's why I don't post here that often anymore.

 

[rstites]

They aren't the same. There are a couple differences as I explained earlier that make a pronounced difference in the sound. However, aside from those couple differences the circuits are almost identical. This isn't a bad thing. Many amps are derived from other amps. The first Marshalls were basically copies of a Bassman. The AC30 is the basis for a host of other amps (Orange, Matchless, Bad Cat, etc.).

The first Marshalls were straight-up Bassman copies, except using commonly available British parts rather than commonly available American parts, for certain. I think it gets seen differently due to the rationale as much as anything. British musicians couldn't afford the imported Fenders, so Marshall started building a less expensive alternative for them. Also, there's certainly something different to our eyes when stealing designs from the big-boy on the block by a startup vs. the big company stealing the unique idea from the small builder down the street. In theory, they're similar but then they really aren't either.

The AC30 is interesting in how many years there are between those. The original amplifiers were long out of production before the copies started coming out. I keep thinking I'm going to build an amp in that vein myself, but never do get around to it.

 

[Candiria]

at the risk of sounding like a moron, if rev C is so great why wouldnt they just keep it?

They realized the shift that was happening in music and kept revising the amp until they got it to a point that fit the vibe of music at the time.

They went from Rev C to Rev F within a year and to Rev G about a year after that. The Recto sound of the 90's and 00's is Rev F/G.

 

[Candiria]

……no



SLO BIGGER in the bottom end? That’s hillarious.



Extremely close? Get your hearing checked….

If you look at his post he says he was running the Red mode in Vintage. That activates both presence controls, and if he had the presence on the Orange channel turned up high that would make the Red Channel much tighter and thinner, so it's possible.

 

[Racerxrated]

Smith continuing to revise the Recto revs was because the Rev C sounded nothing like the SLO, so he needed to make it softer & more bloated till he got it right with the G!

For years now I've had the hypothesis that Soldano wasn't pissed about the design being "copied", since everyone copies circuit designs. I think he's pissed that the Recto was wildly successful and the SLO, which in his mind is far superior, was not.

Not quite right with this. The Soldano shop was a very small staffed crew..through their history, when you placed an order for any amp(if a dealer didn't have one in stock) you had to wait a bit. There was no shortage of orders. Mesa could and did produce far greater numbers than Soldano EVER could. So, this wasn't as much a "he stole orders from my pocket" vs a Fortin-esque "he stole my circuit!" irritation. The SLO was also near double the price of the Rectos, so a totally different buyer from the get go.

 

[311boogieman]

Not quite right with this. The Soldano shop was a very small staffed crew..through their history, when you placed an order for any amp(if a dealer didn't have one in stock) you had to wait a bit. There was no shortage of orders. Mesa could and did produce far greater numbers than Soldano EVER could. So, this wasn't as much a "he stole orders from my pocket" vs a Fortin-esque "he stole my circuit!" irritation. The SLO was also near double the price of the Rectos, so a totally different buyer from the get go.

Seems like that pretty much sums it up.

Way to put a bow on this thread and call it good.

 

[bigviolin]

It wasn't the circuit.

It was the fucking diamond plate.

 

[Meeotch]

I haven't played either but can tell you from online schematics that the entire circuits are polar opposites of one another. And youtube clips clearly show that they sound identical as long as you are using JJ's and running EMG's into that Misha pedal out front. Great for a low volume practice rig!!

 

[braintheory]

I haven't played either but can tell you from online schematics that the entire circuits are polar opposites of one another. And youtube clips clearly show that they sound identical as long as you are using JJ's and running EMG's into that Misha pedal out front. Great for a low volume practice rig!!

You are actually I think touching on a big reason for why many mistakenly think 2 pieces of gear sound similar or even the same. In comparisons either they’re using too much gain, boosting it, using super compressed pickups, stupid modulation like reverb or delay, and other things like that imo are often one of the culprits. IMO it’s critical for AB comparisons to keep things as dry and honest as possible. I often for AB tests use less gain than I would normally, lower output pickups, no boosts or any pedals or fx, and all gear that’s constant and stuff I’m used to

For those who think any recto or slo sound remotely similar (I have a Rev D, ‘89 SLO and 2 Rev F Triple’s fwiw) I can only wonder what they’d think doing more subtle comparisons like tube swaps or different pickups

 

[SBlue]

This is from last week.
Unfortunately I no longer have an SLO to direct A/B them like I did before.
An 87 PRS CST24 into a Rev C Dual and G12-65 speakers in a WEM 4x12. No boost used.

 

[braintheory]

This is from last week.
Unfortunately I no longer have an SLO to direct A/B them like I did before.
An 87 PRS CST24 into a Rev C Dual and G12-65 speakers in a WEM 4x12. No boost used.

SLO would be interesting vs those. I can say my ‘89 SLO sounds nothing at all like my Rev D. Even if I homogenized everything with boosts, reverb, delay, emg’s and all that bs, nothing would make them similar lol

I’m curious with those ‘80’s PRS’s like that one, what type of finish did they use back then? I’m curious to try some of those older ones like that

 

[blackba]

I mean, if you thought you designed something original and saw something clearly inspired by it without attribution, would you be upset?

Seems like there's always two separate debates when this topic comes up. One is whether they sound the same (they don't, though you can get them in the same ballpark), and the other is the ethics of what Mesa did. Similar examples abound. Matchless made the DC30 when working, accurate AC30s where a bit hard to find. They sound different but again there's overlap. Vemuram makes a pedal that's very nearly the Timmy but tweaked. Bassman/JTM45.

As an engineer I have had my designs copied and yes I was not happy, even though copying of circuits, songs, etc goes on all the time.

Anyway you slice it Soldano didn't get the money from the huge popularity of the recto amps, although as was pointed out they were not a high volume production shop either. Would have been cool if Mesa had gone to Mike and struck up a partnership on the rectos, but that is history.

 

[thegame]

This is from last week.
Unfortunately I no longer have an SLO to direct A/B them like I did before.
An 87 PRS CST24 into a Rev C Dual and G12-65 speakers in a WEM 4x12. No boost used.

That simply sounds awesome

 

[danielraible]

This SLO/Mesa revG comparison video adds the 5150 to the mix which is nice:

 

[RaceU4her]

This SLO/Mesa revG comparison video adds the 5150 to the mix which is nice:

im always saying i watch these guys on youtube and im not sure how they cop the tones they are through the same gear i have and this is a perfect example, i dont know how he makes his triple G sound like that towards the end with basically the same settings i would use, they say tone isnt in the hands but i dont know lol. this is a great demo though

 

[GJgo]

He's using a cab IR. That's a good step in making them sound different, yet all the same.

That said I can still hear the amp to amp differences having had them all.

 

[saxxamafone]

im always saying i watch these guys on youtube and im not sure how they cop the tones they are through the same gear i have and this is a perfect example, i dont know how he makes his triple G sound like that towards the end with basically the same settings i would use, they say tone isnt in the hands but i dont know lol. this is a great demo though

The amp is only a part of the overall sound.. and not the biggest part of the overall tone.
Cabs/mics will change tone much more than an amp will and then you have guitars/pickups in there too