So I have a question for you guys.

[Vrad]

There is more to it. Besides the R&D and production costs, you also have to factor in the distribution chain. Every link in the chain needs their margin. I questioned Mesa about their pricing policy of the new JP2C in Europe ($ 2,500 in USA vs $ 4,300 in Europe for consumers). They were pretty quick to respond and explained a lot, which is cool. I'll keep the lengthy discussion that ensued to myself, but I sensed some agitation about my question and in the end it was like: "don't buy it, if you think it is not worth it". Still a cool company, but I guess they have an old fashioned business model like some other companies. As said above, it boils down to supply and demand. I'm really hesitant to pay that amount of money for an amp. You would think that with the bankruptcy of many dealers over here, the companies would think twice (Unless you intend to remain small and operate in a niche market, or don't give a rat's ass about a global market). Luckily, there is enough competition and we have some good alternatives (Diezel, anyone?). Somehow the PRS Archon is priced reasonably well here too.

I´ve always imagined that Mesa Boogie is by far the US manufacturer that - for whatever reason - ends up proportionally more expensive than the others once the amps get to Europe. Is a new Roadking more expensive than a Friedman BE100 or a Bogner Ecstacy 101 over there in the states?

Nope. RK is $2799. The Friedman BE and Bogner XTC 101 is about $1000 more.

 

[Dave L]

The Roadking is about $150 more here, judging from the biggest european web shop down in Germany. No wonder they get defensive about their pricing model

 

[Vrad]

The Roadking is about $150 more here, judging from the biggest european web shop down in Germany. No wonder they get defensive about their pricing model

yeah no kidding... that's nuts

 

[Dave L]

That is nuts. I´ve bought a lot of expensive stuff in my day but for that very reason I´ve never even considered buying a new Boogie. People do, though, and lots of them.

 

[Vrad]

That is nuts. I´ve bought a lot of expensive stuff in my day but for that very reason I´ve never even considered buying a new Boogie. People do, though, and lots of them.

I wouldn't bother either. At a certain point you run into the law of diminishing returns. That was sort of my point with this tread...

 

[Deleted member 8761]

That is nuts. I´ve bought a lot of expensive stuff in my day but for that very reason I´ve never even considered buying a new Boogie. People do, though, and lots of them.

I wouldn't bother either. At a certain point you run into the law of diminishing returns. That was sort of my point with this tread...

Yep, for the RK $ 1,500 more. I made a comparison with the Mark V, that gap is "only" $ 1,050. It doesn't add up, but they think it does. Some adaptions to comply with EU rules may cost a bit more though. They sell enough (still relatively small numbers) to not lose any sleep over it. In fact, they keep running the business like they did the last decades. Judging by the underlying tone of my conversation, I believe that I wasn't the only one to question the pricing.

 

[Vrad]

That is nuts. I´ve bought a lot of expensive stuff in my day but for that very reason I´ve never even considered buying a new Boogie. People do, though, and lots of them.

I wouldn't bother either. At a certain point you run into the law of diminishing returns. That was sort of my point with this tread...

Yep, for the RK $ 1,500 more. I made a comparison with the Mark V, that gap is "only" $ 1,050. It doesn't add up, but they think it does. Some adaptions to comply with EU rules may cost a bit more though. They sell enough (still relatively small numbers) to not lose any sleep over it. In fact, they keep running the business like they did the last decades. Judging by the underlying tone of my conversation, I believe that I wasn't the only one to question the pricing.

It's like some folks in this thread said... if people are willing to pay the prices, there's no reason to drop them.

 

[psychodave]

I'm guessing Friedman's costs have changed with different production situations. If they're selling at the same price now, as when they were made in smaller volume and higher cost, more profit.

This plus everything else anyone ever speculated on. Revenue is important, gross profit is more relevant.
Insert golfer analogy "here". Dudes, this is business 101 and Mr Friedman is pretty damn good at it period end of story. Once you understand this, these types of questions stopped getting asked.

So what your saying is that it's not good to pass savings along to the customer if they are too stupid to realize what's going on?

 

[Mailman1971]

[No message]

 

[glip22]

You're terrible

 

[Mailman1971]

You're terrible

I love the far side.

 

[squank]

those are VERY different amps my friend... it's like comparing a camero to a ferarri... seriously.

Only in your mind

Friedman has the industry inside track with his rockstar clientele out in L.A, and good for him. He can charge Lynch, Stevens, Chris Shiflett, et al big money for his amps. I've owned and played several of Dave's amps, and they are great. But his amps aren't any better than the Archon. Different, yea, but not better. The Archon can get heavier than any Friedman amp I've played. It has better cleans, imo. But maybe modern metal ain't your thing, and that's cool too.

Friedman is cashing in on all the wannabe/usedtobe/nevergonnabe players who love those same 80s rockers who use Friedman stuff. I paid $4k for an amp once (not one of Dave's), and I'll NEVER do that again. No amp is worth that.

 

[jc986]

those are VERY different amps my friend... it's like comparing a camero to a ferarri... seriously.

Only in your mind

Friedman has the industry inside track with his rockstar clientele out in L.A, and good for him. He can charge Lynch, Stevens, Chris Shiflett, et al big money for his amps. I've owned and played several of Dave's amps, and they are great. But his amps aren't any better than the Archon. Different, yea, but not better. The Archon can get heavier than any Friedman amp I've played. It has better cleans, imo. But maybe modern metal ain't your thing, and that's cool too.

Friedman is cashing in on all the wannabe/usedtobe/nevergonnabe players who love those same 80s rockers who use Friedman stuff. I paid $4k for an amp once (not one of Dave's), and I'll NEVER do that again. No amp is worth that.

Agreed. For the stuff I play I like the Archon better than any Friedman amp I've ever played through or heard clips of.

PRS typically isn't shy about pricing towards the high end of the market, so I was pleasantly surprised at the pricing of the Archon when it came out.

 

[Chubtone]

I heard your Archon clips Vrad. I would agree that amp sounds really good if it had hurt your wallet more. I do not allow my thumb to point in an upward fashion on an amp that costs less than $3k.

Go ahead and play a peasants amp if you can look yourself in the mirror afterwards. My golden ears can hear the amount of $$$$ that changed hands to purchase this amp and you did not shell out enough to acquire a tone approved by me.

Wrap three $100 bills around each power tube and once they burn up to a crisp then I will LOVE the way this amp sounds.

And like others have said, it is VERY DANGEROUS to imprint MADE IN USA on anything these days. If one single component or material is not from the USA, you are opening yourself up to lawsuits. Case in point, an original 1959 Gibson Les Paul Standard would make companies nervous to stamp Made In USA on now. The rosewood was from Brazil. The mahogany was from Honduras. These days that means the entire product was not Made In USA. Grover Jackson now imprints his guitars with "Made On Planet Earth By Grover Jackson".

 

[Gitfiddler]

The cost of living/doing biz in north hollywood is likely higher than in MD.

 

[mjtripper]

The two biggest costs are trannies and labor. Import those and you can keep costs low.

 

[jc986]

The two biggest costs are trannies and labor. Import those and you can keep costs low.

I can verify for certain that transformer on my Archon is made in the USA. They are using Classic Tone by Magnetic Components transformers.

 

[glip22]

I'm sure some of you guys will get all uppity about all this. But meh... I couldn't care less.

Here goes...
I got this PRS Archon. I just opened it up and it's entirely PTP-wired. So if PRS can make a PTP amp, that's 100 Watts and sounds awesome for under $2k new, why can't other manufacturers do that? A 100 watt Friedman is $3500-4000. Do any of you feel like that's kinda dumb pricing?

Please enlighten me.

I think the question to be asked is if Dave Freidman can remain successful selling his amplifiers for 3600.00 why would he lower the price

Friedman amps can do as they please with their brand. We don't worry about why Bogner charges what they do when they make their amps in house. They have others like ETI Sound who owns Boutique Amp Distributors to pay as well as earn their royalties on the BE100. At 3700 per amp they might only get like $700 per BE100 in royalties. BAD is a solid company that can build allot of amps. Hundreds per month. None of our business honestly. Buy a Friedman if you want or buy another brand. Who cares.

 

[squank]

I played an Archon once. Was severely underwhelmed. It's worth $800 to me.

Dude, we know you don't like Archons. You never pass up an opportunity to tell people this. Guess what - other people like them. No need to crap all over them for liking an amp that you don't.

Also, that last sentence of yours is a pretty shitty thing to say to another forum member. Dude is excited about his new amp. Why insult him like that? That's just wrong.

 

[jc986]

Also there are so many variables to playing just one (insert item here) once and forming a valid opinion. If I made up my mind about Gibson Les Pauls by "playing one once and being severely underwhelmed" that would have been a mistake. I've played a ton of absolute shit Les Pauls but others (even others of the same year/model) are amazing guitars.