So this is why (warning Metallica content)...

That song is damn near impossible to quad track. The speed yes, but the damn sliding main riff is the real ass kicker.
 
Philhouse said:
Just for an 'math intervention' exercise, if we accept the MOP bpm is commonly considered as being 212bpm, Whats the actual tempo difference between recording at 435 and the speeding up to 440?

What bpm did they record it at, and is that in reality a significant difference?

(I'm too low on caffeine to do the math rn)
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Is it a difference of (440-435)/435 x 100 = 1.15%

212 bpm less 1.15% = 209 bpm

So: They tuned guitar to 435hz and recorded at 209 bpm to result in a track that when pitched up to 440 is now at 212bpm?


Not a huge difference.
It's not like they were recording it a half speed to fool the world. Pretty sure the demo tapes all have James playing it at full tempo anyway, then there is the live footage of them playing at the speed of cocaine bpm. Was it all just one of Flemming's studio tricks used to give him the tightest recording he could get, rather than a super secret that James needed to achieve the absolute perfect tempo of 212?
 
Philhouse said:
Is it a difference of (440-435)/435 x 100 = 1.15%

212 bpm less 1.15% = 209 bpm

So: They tuned guitar to 435hz and recorded at 209 bpm to result in a track that when pitched up to 440 is now at 212bpm?


Not a huge difference.
It's not like they were recording it a half speed to fool the world. Pretty sure the demo tapes all have James playing it at full tempo anyway, then there is the live footage of them playing at the speed of cocaine bpm. Was it all just one of Flemming's studio tricks used to give him the tightest recording he could get, rather than a super secret that James needed to achieve the absolute perfect tempo of 212?
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Where did they say they tuned to 435hz?? that dosent sound like much of a difference, but youre definitely gonna notice 3bpm playing that fast for that long. shits not easy, its why they stop every couple measures to take a break and james can ask if everyone if they are still alive
 
RaceU4her said:
Where did they say they tuned to 435hz?? that dosent sound like much of a difference, but youre definitely gonna notice 3bpm playing that fast for that long. shits not easy, its why they stop every couple measures to take a break and james can ask if everyone if they are still alive
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:ROFLMAO: fuck I hate that 'Are you alive??' line

James really needs to freshen up his repetoire




Anyway, yeah, It's in his studio notes (this is the sheet he's pointing at also in the video at around 10 secs in)

7TYuaRt.jpeg
 
I dont care what tempo they recorded it in at the studio as long as James could play it live at full speed, i doubt they are the first metal band to do it that way. And theres plenty of videos of him playing at full speed and even faster during that tour.
 
Les Zombie said:
I dont care what tempo they recorded it in at the studio as long as James could play it live at full speed, i doubt they are the first metal band to do it that way. And theres plenty of videos of him playing at full speed and even faster during that tour.
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Almost double tempo in Canada
 
Brandonrz said:
Only two takes and a thicker only on chugs. From Flemming. So 2.25 takes I’d call it. Each take had three mics on it though which is where the 6 number comes from. And back then had to manually phase align… what a nightmare. And why it sounds super phasey.

Some guys nowadays get real crazy with the mics and stuff because of what you can do on digital. I think Vogg recently had something like quad takes, so two left and two right, but each cab had 6 mics on them lol. 24 tracks total.
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OK, is it the same for the Black Album as well? Or did he do more than a few takes on the rhythm tracks? Of Wolf And Man sounds like there's a bunch of individual takes?? Like 3 per side, one down the middle??
 
anomaly said:
OK, is it the same for the Black Album as well? Or did he do more than a few takes on the rhythm tracks? Of Wolf And Man sounds like there's a bunch of individual takes?? Like 3 per side, one down the middle??
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Fleming was only talking about Puppets for that 2.25 takes story. Black album would be a whole other thing.
 
anomaly said:
OK, is it the same for the Black Album as well? Or did he do more than a few takes on the rhythm tracks? Of Wolf And Man sounds like there's a bunch of individual takes?? Like 3 per side, one down the middle??
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I believe it was one each side and one in the middle. Same kind of deal. Multiple mics including the room mixed way down. Which caused the phasey Metallica sound.

Ironically enough after all the eq and shit the closest I’ve heard anyone get to the black album was that cover mark lewis recorded… and he used a rev f rectifier (not mark iic+/ mark iii, again who knows with that one… and marshall) with the same speakers as the black album, Marshall vintage, and multiple mic set up. Main mics always being the 57 and 421.

For what it’s worth my early black stripe mark iii I had sounded WAY more like the black album than my mark iic+, ++, straight in. Not trying to derail and start a whole other thing with that, just my experience.

 
Brandonrz said:
I believe it was one each side and one in the middle. Same kind of deal. Multiple mics including the room mixed way down. Which caused the phasey Metallica sound.

Ironically enough after all the eq and shit the closest I’ve heard anyone get to the black album was that cover mark lewis recorded… and he used a rev f rectifier (not mark iic+/ mark iii, again who knows with that one… and marshall) with the same speakers as the black album, Marshall vintage, and multiple mic set up. Main mics always being the 57 and 421.

For what it’s worth my early black stripe mark iii I had sounded WAY more like the black album than my mark iic+, ++, straight in. Not trying to derail and start a whole other thing with that, just my experience.

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That video sounds very, very close, yeah.

But oh my god that guy is hitting the last two "dun dun" palm mutes of the main riff just a little bit early each time, not enough that it's super obvious, but just enough that it messes with the swing, and it's killing me lol.
 
TheGreatGreen said:
That video sounds very, very close, yeah.

But oh my god that guy is hitting the last two "dun dun" palm mutes of the main riff just a little bit early each time, not enough that it's super obvious, but just enough that it messes with the swing, and it's killing me lol.
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I just need to stop being such a pussy and buy a 421 lol. I like doing my stuff with just a 57 to prove it’s doable but that 421 just adds a bit more of the good stuff.
 
TheGreatGreen said:
That video sounds very, very close, yeah.

But oh my god that guy is hitting the last two "dun dun" palm mutes of the main riff just a little bit early each time, not enough that it's super obvious, but just enough that it messes with the swing, and it's killing me lol.
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Yeah his timing sucks. Even the verse is screwy sounding.
 
Brandonrz said:
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Man this cover is fascinating to me. The production is close and the tones are good, but it just doesn't have the sauce or the weight of the original. I feel nothing when I listen to it. Maybe that band is great at their own stuff though, who knows.

My point is that hearing covers like this makes me wonder how many songs that didn't do anything for people might have been all timers if they just had a bit more muscle and juice to them. And by that same token, I wonder how many subpar songs are considered top of the mountain simply because of how great they sound and were performed.
 
TheGreatGreen said:
Man this cover is fascinating to me. The production is close and the tones are good, but it just doesn't have the sauce or the weight of the original. I feel nothing when I listen to it. Maybe that band is great at their own stuff though, who knows.

My point is that hearing covers like this makes me wonder how many songs that didn't do anything for people might have been all timers if they just had a bit more muscle and juice to them. And by that same token, I wonder how many subpar songs are considered top of the mountain simply because of how great they sound and were performed.
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I think an issue with any band covering Metallica, Pantera, etc honestly any real iconic song is you get shit if it’s dead nuts like the original. You do anything different, and you get shit too lol.
 
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