Speaker swapping question

[braintheory]

I have Diezel 412 FL currently with all K100’s and I wanna experiment with keeping 2 of them in there and have them crossed with 2 Fane F90’s. I’ll probably later swap the remaining 2 K100’s for something else like V30’s since I’m not a huge fan of K100’s, but wanna start out with that combo.

I’ve done several other speaker swaps before without a problem where the stock speakers were already mixed (like in my Ubercab and Friedman 215/212), but have not done one yet in a cab with all 4 speakers being the same. Can anyone here help me out and tell what I’d need to do for this kinda swap? Like which wires to connect to which?Thanks in advance

It’ll be a little while before I actually get the Fanes and can have time to install them, but still thought I’d ask in advance

 

[CornNutz]

Just buy a pair of whatever speakers you want to mix in, make sure to get the same Ohm rating, and plug them in the exact spot where you took the others out. That is it.

 

[Racerxrated]

Just buy a pair of whatever speakers you want to mix in, make sure to get the same Ohm rating, and plug them in the exact spot where you took the others out. That is it.

Yup, this exactly. In case the wires fall away and you don't remember which are +/-, just take a pic of the speakers as they are presently wired. Then you'll have a reference. Most cab wires are different colors so it's pretty simple.

 

[blackba]

For sure take many pictures before you start putting in the new speakers.

Also when mixing speakers, especially different brands there are a few things to keep in mind.
First, the sensitivity of the speakers may be difference so one may dominate. Its easy to find within a brand, but between brands they may be measured differently
Second, In general small dust cap speakers mix well with other small dust cap speakers and large dust cap speakers mix well with other large dust cap speakers. Where you are more likely to find issue is mixing small dust cap speaker with a large dust cap speaker.

 

[ke2]

Put some masking tape on the wires, and mark them with + and - before you remove them from the original speaker. That way, it's pretty foolproof to put in the new. Do one at the time.

 

[CornNutz]

Where you are more likely to find issue is mixing small dust cap speaker with a large dust cap speaker.

Hmm, curious how you came to that conclusion?

Bogner Ubercab has G12T75's (big dust cap), and v30's (small dust cap)
I've ran k100's(big dust cap), and v30's, sounded great.

Also never worried about the sensitivity miss-match, never had issues with that.



One thing however to keep in mind is the cab itself can/will dictate what speaker combo sounds good.

 

[Racerxrated]

Where you are more likely to find issue is mixing small dust cap speaker with a large dust cap speaker.

Hmm, curious how you came to that conclusion?

Bogner Ubercab has G12T75's (big dust cap), and v30's (small dust cap)
I've ran k100's(big dust cap), and v30's, sounded great.

Also never worried about the sensitivity miss-match, never had issues with that.



One thing however to keep in mind is the cab itself can/will dictate what speaker combo sounds good.

Sensitivity is a real consideration; when you think about the V30/GB combo Friedman uses the V30’s have a higher sensitivity than the GBs, with the GBs on top they mix nicely. If you reverse that all you’d hear would be the V30’s.

 

[blackba]

Where you are more likely to find issue is mixing small dust cap speaker with a large dust cap speaker.

Hmm, curious how you came to that conclusion?

Bogner Ubercab has G12T75's (big dust cap), and v30's (small dust cap)
I've ran k100's(big dust cap), and v30's, sounded great.

Also never worried about the sensitivity miss-match, never had issues with that.



One thing however to keep in mind is the cab itself can/will dictate what speaker combo sounds good.

Got the information from Jim at Scumback speakers on the dust cap. Sensitivity differences is my own personal experience.

As always let your ears be your guide.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

A large dust cap speaker softens the treble slightly, while small dust caps do not. When you mix them it can be tough to properly EQ the upper mids and treble with your amp.

 

[CornNutz]

Sensitivity is a real consideration; when you think about the V30/GB combo Friedman uses the V30’s have a higher sensitivity than the GBs, with the GBs on top they mix nicely. If you reverse that all you’d hear would be the V30’s.

Yeah, never had that issue. I've built out cabs with that combo many times. I've had them at ear level, and they sound balanced to me. I've been at the front of a stage while a band playing through one of the cabs I done this combo on, still nothing overpowering, just a good blend.

I dunno, maybe I'll record them both up close, and see if there is any difference in volume.

 

[Racerxrated]

Sensitivity is a real consideration; when you think about the V30/GB combo Friedman uses the V30’s have a higher sensitivity than the GBs, with the GBs on top they mix nicely. If you reverse that all you’d hear would be the V30’s.

Yeah, never had that issue. I've built out cabs with that combo many times. I've had them at ear level, and they sound balanced to me. I've been at the front of a stage while a band playing through one of the cabs I done this combo on, still nothing overpowering, just a good blend.

I dunno, maybe I'll record them both up close, and see if there is any difference in volume.

I’ve tried X pattern GBs and V30’s, V30’s overpower them easily to my ears. That was a few yrs ago, then I learned the V30’s have a higher sensitivity and will dominate what you hear over a less sensitive speaker. Even with the T75/V30 mix all I heard was V30. Lol

 

[CornNutz]

A large dust cap speaker softens the treble slightly, while small dust caps do not. When you mix them it can be tough to properly EQ the upper mids and treble with your amp.

Good, info. Now I'm going to start modding speakers with different dust caps

BTW, I recently tried a scumback cab from what I hear you made a limited run of, naked no tolex. Damn, loved it, very lively.

 

[CornNutz]

I’ve tried X pattern GBs and V30’s, V30’s overpower them easily to my ears. That was a few yrs ago, then I learned the V30’s have a higher sensitivity and will dominate what you hear over a less sensitive speaker. Even with the T75/V30 mix all I heard was V30. Lol

I do recall trying GB/V30 in X, and not liking it as well as the top/bottom config. Seem to me that it was more of a low end thing, v30, have more low end which is better suited on the bottom.

Really there are more factors in what combo sounds good, such as the cab. For example v30/k100 in X sounded great in a randal cab I had, but sounded like ass in a recto cab. Likewise with the GB/v30 in different cabs.

You either use a known cab, and speaker combo that sounds good (maybe store bought ala Friedman), or get lucky.
Or have a lot of cabs, and speakers to try on hand.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

A large dust cap speaker softens the treble slightly, while small dust caps do not. When you mix them it can be tough to properly EQ the upper mids and treble with your amp.

Good, info. Now I'm going to start modding speakers with different dust caps

BTW, I recently tried a scumback cab from what I hear you made a limited run of, naked no tolex. Damn, loved it, very lively.

Glad you liked the naked 69 spec cab. Dave Friedman asked me to build those for him, and they caught on.

Swapping speaker dust caps...I don't recommend it. A piece of glue or crud can get into the voice coil gap under the dust cap when you remove it to swap, and you toast the speaker's sound, which could require a recone.

 

[CornNutz]

A large dust cap speaker softens the treble slightly, while small dust caps do not. When you mix them it can be tough to properly EQ the upper mids and treble with your amp.

Swapping speaker dust caps...I don't recommend it. A piece of glue or crud can get into the voice coil gap under the dust cap when you remove it to swap, and you toast the speaker's sound, which could require a recone.

Yeah, but i'll do it anyway I've repaired them many times, and done re-cones. Funny what some of the local musicians will ram through their cones when they are partying hard on stage.

 

[moltenmetalburn]

A large dust cap speaker softens the treble slightly, while small dust caps do not. When you mix them it can be tough to properly EQ the upper mids and treble with your amp.

Please elaborate if possible.

Ive mixed speaker dustcap sizes for years and never had this issue at all. Voice coil sizes as well. You simply adjust treble/mids for the brighter speaker, that’s it. Like not even a consideration IMO. I may experiment some more with this to see if I missed something.

Is this a close miking the darker speaker issue?

Ive only found that sensitivity and wattage/breakup need be well addressed.

Wattage was a real eye/ear opener for high gain. Mixing 100 and 60-70 watt speakers for high gain was futile. The 100 watt added girth and bottom but also created a mismatch in drive levels. This resulted in either not enough breakup in the 100 or way too much in the 70 while trying to find a middle ground.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

A large dust cap speaker softens the treble slightly, while small dust caps do not. When you mix them it can be tough to properly EQ the upper mids and treble with your amp.

Please elaborate if possible.

Large dust caps make the treble silkier/smoother (ala G12-65 35 oz magnet weight speakers) while small dust caps (G12M-Creamback 65w) let more highs through. The heavier the magnet, the more volume, bass and treble is produced around the mids, such as a G12-80 (50 ounce magnet).

It becomes a balancing act for your EQ. Maybe you can mix and get your tone dialed in, but most of my clients use either small dust cap speakers (regardless of magnet weight such as the M75/H75 mix) or all large dust cap speakers (M75-LD & H75-LD) to have the upper mids and treble response similar.

 

[Giga.Blast]

Just buy a pair of whatever speakers you want to mix in, make sure to get the same Ohm rating, and plug them in the exact spot where you took the others out. That is it.

I just used my camera's phone to take a snapshot of the wiring from behind.

That's all.