Stage Volume

  • Thread starter Thread starter spanny
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JTyson":1pd6u38r said:
Hmmm...
I dont know, I agree with some of that, but we gigged for years with our sound guy and had it worked out were we had a decent stage volume...
Racerxrated":1pd6u38r said:
Nope. Wrong answer.
danyeo":1pd6u38r said:
...Most new amps have great master volumes and solo volumes boosts so getting volume under control is a LOT easier than it used to be a with non master Marshalls or even JCM800's.
I think you guys may have glossed over a critical part of my post. I said "you simply cannot get a great live mix in a small room cranking a 20/50/100w tube amp through a cabinet." CRANKING.

I realize there are lots of guitarists who DO have the experience/knowledge/professionalism to turn their amps down and have a decent stage volume. I'm sure you three are in that group. Those who do can get a good mix through the mains - but I wasn't talking about them. I was referring to the LEGIONS of tube amp players who insist on cranking up their amps very loud on stage to get "their tone." These are the people who will never, ever get a good mix in a small room. For them, they would sound eminently better using a DI solution so they could get a balanced mix overall.
 
I mix sound, and I used to play guitar and bass in a number of bands (still play for fun). As a player, nothing makes me happier than being able to crank up at a gig. So i've been on both sides of the battle. Even after mixing sound for 10 years, being told to turn down sucks. It's especially tough to gauge if you're actually too loud, when you're trusting opinions of your friends, or bartenders, and everyone has their own opinion of what sounds good. If your sound guy has a good reputation, then chances are he/she cares about the band sounding good, and you should listen. They probably want to be hired again, so their credibility is on the line.

The job in general can be pretty miserable, as someone pointed out that a lot of people who do try to make a living at it are musicians first and this is obviously their second choice in the industry. But there are actually those out there who take pride in what they're doing, and try to make things sound their best. I try to keep the vocals loud and clean, and that's a bit of a challenge when some band shows up with a 100 watt marshall and ampeg svt and wants to crank up (to like. unreasonable levels) and refuses to turn down because cranked amps and loud drums is "their sound". When groups show up and do those things, guess who gets blamed for the bad mix that night?

What many (not all) people don't understand is a lot of bars & small venues probably can't afford to have the latest and greatest in PA equipment, and while there are products and skilled people out there to maximize results & get the vocals up to keep up with the loud bands, a lot of times, actually most of the time that's not going to happen. If you can't hear vocals, you got yourself a crappy mix. Tough shot to the ego for a guitar player, but it's true. In my experience, if you can get a good vocal sound, then everything else will fall into place. Having a sweet guitar tone, punchy bass, and a tight drum kit. It all makes for a good night. If all you have to worry about is bumping up levels for guitar solos or whatever, then you know you got it all right.

What I tell bands to do, - if there's a sound check - point your amps in to the side or at least a bit off axis from where the console is, turn up enough so you can hear yourself and your band mates over the drums, then set some monitor levels for vocals, and top everything else up with the house PA and monitors so you can get some usable levels for bumping up solos and stuff. Sometimes, depending on how bad someone's hearing is, but it may actually get the speakers in your cab moving enough to start feeling good. For some, maybe not. It usually gets me good results, and most people seem to be happy with it. You'll never please everyone lol. It might be a suggestion to those sound persons *who care*. Nothing is going to help when you got a young punk who doesn't give a shit, and is just there for the cash. Of course, all of this means nothing if your sound person doesn't have a clue either. Just like a band has to put effort into their playing, a sound person needs to put effort into their shit as well. Everyone needs to work together for the good result - a good sounding show which leads to selling cd's, getting hired again, and just having a good night.

Sorry for digging up an old thread, but I thought it was interesting, since i've had a bunch of experience on both ends, and it's only my second post to the board.

cheers.
:rock:
 
NoodlerKS":2b9ar1gy said:
Side wash the amp and ask for more through you monitor.

It says a lot about people's ego when they are more concerned about their amp sounding great rather than the band sounding good. Not everyone digs guitar like the guitar player and wants to hear a cranked marshall with hardly any vocals. Then they wonder why no other bars/clubs won't hire them.....but that's ok.... they're a purist and we "just don't get it man."

With that being said I've always had the same gripe with drummers and their cymbals or backup singers who want a mic but only sing two lines the whole set.

What this guy said
 
I brought cup cakes to our last gig, for the sound guy, Had an amazing mix !
 
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