SUhr Modern Day at my house FOR SUHR

[Gainiac]

a guy posts a few pics of some new pieces he's happy to have acquired and somebody burns him, on RIG talk...

I love this place....

 

[van hellion]

Jealousy rears it's ugly head. Someones always gotta be a dick. Can't just be happy for the guy. Waaaaaa Beautiful guitars man. Very wise investment.

No genius, jealousy is what everyone else in this thread has been doing - Lusting and practically salivating over this shallow, senseless, and totally American purchase.

wow, thats a bit harsh. just because what the guy bought isnt your cup of tea doesnt mean it makes you mr. cool when you come in with your rain cloud, shitting on the guys obvious good mood and joy of new gear day

happy new gear day to the OP. im one of the shallow, senseless americans lusting over your new toys

A Wood

 

[Beyond Black]

FYI dumbass, jealousy would be a negative reaction to somebody else's good fortune. You're the only one that had anything even remotely negative to say, which would make YOU appear to be the jealous one. And as far as this being a shallow, senseless, and totally American(whatever that is insinuating ) purchase? Well Klark,we are all dumber for having read that. We collectively thank you for decreasing our IQ's. Maybe next time Red Rider will consult with you before his next "shallow, senseless and totally American purchase." You sir are a tool. And by the way, those guitars totaled much more than 10 grand.

In your first sentence you have to resort to name calling, but you're calling me the dumbass? You seriously believe that jealousy is the only reason for a negative comment, but you're calling me the dumbass? You don't even understand what is meant by the phrase 'American purchase', but you're calling me the dumbass? You seriously believe you're even remotely intelligent enough to 'collectively' speak for members of this forum, but you're calling me the dumbass? You believe it's cool that those guitars cost more than 10K, but you're calling me the dumbass?

Actually, nevermind, please do not waste anymore of your time. I give you my word that I will not attempt to decrease to your IQ any lower, as I am merciful enough to leave you with the little you have left.

I believe calling someone a dumbass is very similar to sarcastically calling someone a genius as you did in YOUR first sentence. When you come in and rain on this guy's parade for no apparent reason, it reaks of jealousy-or you just felt like being a dick. Either way, it was uncalled for. I fully understand that Suhr guitars are made in the USA. What I don't understand is why you said "American purchase" in such a derogatory fashion. As far as being "remotely intelligent enough to collectively speak for members of this forum," I challenge you to find a member that will side with you on this one. Trolls like yourself that chime in with their negative attitudes for no other reason than being a dick deserve to be called out. Don't act so fucking surprised. Oh yeah, I never said anything about it being "cool" that those guitars cost more than 10k, I was merely stating a fact. Dumbass!!!

 

[Klark]

I believe calling someone a dumbass is very similar to sarcastically calling someone a genius as you did in YOUR first sentence. When you come in and rain on this guy's parade for no apparent reason, it reaks of jealousy-or you just felt like being a dick. Either way, it was uncalled for. I fully understand that Suhr guitars are made in the USA. What I don't understand is why you said "American purchase" in such a derogatory fashion. As far as being "remotely intelligent enough to collectively speak for members of this forum," I challenge you to find a member that will side with you on this one. Trolls like yourself that chime in with their negative attitudes for no other reason than being a dick deserve to be called out. Don't act so fucking surprised. Oh yeah, I never said anything about it being "cool" that those guitars cost more than 10k, I was merely stating a fact. Dumbass!!!

You seriously should just stay out of the conversation because obviously lack the mental capacity to understand the simplest of things. No one else in this thread has twice asked what I meant by shallow, senseless, American purchase because they all seem to get it. So, instead of thinking about the next name you're going to call me, why don't you stop for a couple seconds, well actually a couple minutes in your case, and think about what that statement really means.

I'm not burning the guy, I'm purely stating my opinion. Being the internet, opinions are allowed here. When you flaunt your shit, or do something that's no so 'wise', someone's going to voice their opinion. Anyway..

Sure, his 'investment' may make him a few hundred bucks, but to call that an investment is just silly. And to call it a wise investment is just freakin' hilarious. A wise investment is one that is researched and evaluated, practically to point of no doubt. If step outside of being a Suhr fanboy and take a look at any Suhr guitar, they consistently lose money. Why? Because they're primarily custom guitars, and any veteran guitar collector will tell you, custom guitars don't make shit for investments. It's the production models that will make you money, a long ass time from now. That being said, in 20 years, he just might double his money on the ONE production model he bought. As far as value, Suhr gets huge money for them new, and within weeks they're worth 30-40% less, maybe only 20-30% less if the 2nd buyer is a Suhr fanboy. Luckily there's no shortage of Suhr fanboy's for a good reason, and that is because they're incredibly well made guitars. I am not bashing Suhr guitars in any way whatsoever, and I honestly think they're incredibly beautiful guitars. I've owned a Suhr, a Tyler, and recently an Anderson. All of which have lost a good amount of money. Thankfully, I wasn't trying to make money on them, because they lost more money than any good Strat or LP that I've ever bought in 20 years of doing this.

I'm am sorry to you RedRider, I really don't mean to offend you. Judging by your home and taste in furnishings, one would think you've invested a lot of time, passion, and wisdom into your primary investments. This purchase however seems to lack that, hence my shallow, senseless, and purely American purchase comment. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Anonymous]

Klark, I must admit that was a very well thought out post.

 

[Anonymous]

You seriously should just stay out of the conversation because obviously lack the mental capacity to understand the simplest of things. No one else in this thread has twice asked what I meant by shallow, senseless, American purchase because they all seem to get it. So, instead of thinking about the next name you're going to call me, why don't you stop for a couple seconds, well actually a couple minutes in your case, and think about what that statement really means.

I'm not burning the guy, I'm purely stating my opinion. Being the internet, opinions are allowed here. When you flaunt your shit, or do something that's no so 'wise', someone's going to voice their opinion. Anyway..

Sure, his 'investment' may make him a few hundred bucks, but to call that an investment is just silly. And to call it a wise investment is just freakin' hilarious. A wise investment is one that is researched and evaluated, practically to point of no doubt. If step outside of being a Suhr fanboy and take a look at any Suhr guitar, they consistently lose money. Why? Because they're primarily custom guitars, and any veteran guitar collector will tell you, custom guitars don't make shit for investments. It's the production models that will make you money, a long ass time from now. That being said, in 20 years, he just might double his money on the ONE production model he bought. As far as value, Suhr gets huge money for them new, and within weeks they're worth 30-40% less, maybe only 20-30% less if the 2nd buyer is a Suhr fanboy. Luckily there's no shortage of Suhr fanboy's for a good reason, and that is because they're incredibly well made guitars. I am not bashing Suhr guitars in any way whatsoever, and I honestly think they're incredibly beautiful guitars. I've owned a Suhr, a Tyler, and recently an Anderson. All of which have lost a good amount of money. Thankfully, I wasn't trying to make money on them, because they lost more money than any good Strat or LP that I've ever bought in 20 years of doing this.

I'm am sorry to you RedRider, I really don't mean to offend you. Judging by your home and taste in furnishings, one would think you've invested a lot of time, passion, and wisdom into your primary investments. This purchase however seems to lack that, hence my shallow, senseless, and purely American purchase comment. I wish you the best of luck.

You're a funny fellow, Klark. In case you've forgotten, here is what you said:

Probably around $10K of the exact same guitar, other than look. Play one for five minutes and you're done, because there's no real reason to play the others.

Wow, exciting.

So... as we all clearly see, your original comments had nothing to do with whether this guy made a sound investment or not. And as far as not intending to offend, how else would someone take your comments? Do they really seem benign to you?

As far as "flaunting your shit", are you fucking kidding me? This is a "gear discussion forum", friend. What the fuck do you think we do here? We talk about and show our gear.

Finally, I know what you are trying to imply by "shallow, senseless, american purchase". I understand the concept you are trying to deliver, I just completely disagree. Those are different guitars that will sound different because they are using different woods, pickups, carves, etc.

You're coming across poorly. Perhaps you made a mistake. But coming back and trying to defend your comments and make it seem like you meant no ill will is ridiculous.

Think about how you want to be perceived here...

Steve

 

[Bob Savage]

Klark, your negativity was certainly uncalled for. If your intent was not meant in a demeaning, insulting manner, then it's time to work on your delivery because it was certainly a negative delivery.

That said, I'd love to have 4 killer guitars that all play and sound the same.

 

[Anonymous]

He works in RTP and he is not a musician

You got 4 suhrs in one day????? Holy shit! Those look awesome!!

F'ng sic! Dude... who are you??!

 

[Anonymous]

Can you say ZION guitars

 

[Anonymous]

fuck that shit. i want vivid pornstars and lots of budweiser

 

[RedRider]

I believe calling someone a dumbass is very similar to sarcastically calling someone a genius as you did in YOUR first sentence. When you come in and rain on this guy's parade for no apparent reason, it reaks of jealousy-or you just felt like being a dick. Either way, it was uncalled for. I fully understand that Suhr guitars are made in the USA. What I don't understand is why you said "American purchase" in such a derogatory fashion. As far as being "remotely intelligent enough to collectively speak for members of this forum," I challenge you to find a member that will side with you on this one. Trolls like yourself that chime in with their negative attitudes for no other reason than being a dick deserve to be called out. Don't act so fucking surprised. Oh yeah, I never said anything about it being "cool" that those guitars cost more than 10k, I was merely stating a fact. Dumbass!!!

You seriously should just stay out of the conversation because obviously lack the mental capacity to understand the simplest of things. No one else in this thread has twice asked what I meant by shallow, senseless, American purchase because they all seem to get it. So, instead of thinking about the next name you're going to call me, why don't you stop for a couple seconds, well actually a couple minutes in your case, and think about what that statement really means.

I'm not burning the guy, I'm purely stating my opinion. Being the internet, opinions are allowed here. When you flaunt your shit, or do something that's no so 'wise', someone's going to voice their opinion. Anyway..

Sure, his 'investment' may make him a few hundred bucks, but to call that an investment is just silly. And to call it a wise investment is just freakin' hilarious. A wise investment is one that is researched and evaluated, practically to point of no doubt. If step outside of being a Suhr fanboy and take a look at any Suhr guitar, they consistently lose money. Why? Because they're primarily custom guitars, and any veteran guitar collector will tell you, custom guitars don't make shit for investments. It's the production models that will make you money, a long ass time from now. That being said, in 20 years, he just might double his money on the ONE production model he bought. As far as value, Suhr gets huge money for them new, and within weeks they're worth 30-40% less, maybe only 20-30% less if the 2nd buyer is a Suhr fanboy. Luckily there's no shortage of Suhr fanboy's for a good reason, and that is because they're incredibly well made guitars. I am not bashing Suhr guitars in any way whatsoever, and I honestly think they're incredibly beautiful guitars. I've owned a Suhr, a Tyler, and recently an Anderson. All of which have lost a good amount of money. Thankfully, I wasn't trying to make money on them, because they lost more money than any good Strat or LP that I've ever bought in 20 years of doing this.

I'm am sorry to you RedRider, I really don't mean to offend you. Judging by your home and taste in furnishings, one would think you've invested a lot of time, passion, and wisdom into your primary investments. This purchase however seems to lack that, hence my shallow, senseless, and purely American purchase comment. I wish you the best of luck.

Clark, just so you realize....NONE of these were Custom guitars. 2 were prototypes of the limited runs of 100 guitars for 08 and 75 guitars for 09. The exotics are production guitars made from "choice" woods picked out by JOhn, but they are NOT made to order, John makes them and are considered production models. Also, you have no clue what I invested into them so how in the world can you know if I would make money on them or not??? Granted, unless I keep them 20 years and Suhr guitars becomes a household name, I probably wont double my investment....but in todays economy even if I only make 10 percent I have done better than most AND I get to play the guitars in the mean time. I have been in the game of buying and selling guitars for about 7 years now and of the 100 - 150 guitars I have bought and sold I usually make 20 - 30% on them and have only lost money on 2, and even that was less than 200 bucks. If you are losing money buying and selling I think you need to look at what you are buying vice criticizing me and my choices...LOL

If you looked at the guitars and all you saw was 4 Floyd Rose guitars and and that turned you off, thats completely fine....I just dont understand why you decided to go out of your way to blast me for buying them is all. Wouldnt it have been just as easy to go to the next thread vice piss on me, piss on american purchases etc..?? DUnno dude....if that what you enjoy doing, your right its the internet and it really doesnt matter to me wether you like the guitars or not so its all good.

Shawn...you are right bro....I am not a musician, I am a talentless hack who works 80 hours a week, is raising 4 daughters, and is lucky to play more than 30 minutes in a week...and thats the beauty of it...I still get to play on some of the most killer guitars ever made for that 30 minutes a week. If I was a musician, actually earning my living by creating music, I wouldnt own any of these guitars, as 1, there would be no way I could afford them, but 2 I would more than likey own some beat up road guitar with 1000's of miles and years of playing on it that has been beaten into the exact tool I desire. Sorry, but I RARELY see "Musicians" with nice gear...to them a guitar isnt something pretty or collectable...its a hammer that is used to drive a nail, a tool meant to be used not admired. Musicians live day to day and are driven to create....sorry bud I am only driven crazy by my kids and collecting guitars is my release from my mundane boring life so I can fantasize about being a rockstar. THing is....I am totally up front about that and no where have I ever stated anything to the contrary. You will NEVER see me criticizing anyone elses music or their motives for owning guitars.....not sure if you were trying to be funny or if you were insulting me....

 

[jmgman69]

I believe calling someone a dumbass is very similar to sarcastically calling someone a genius as you did in YOUR first sentence. When you come in and rain on this guy's parade for no apparent reason, it reaks of jealousy-or you just felt like being a dick. Either way, it was uncalled for. I fully understand that Suhr guitars are made in the USA. What I don't understand is why you said "American purchase" in such a derogatory fashion. As far as being "remotely intelligent enough to collectively speak for members of this forum," I challenge you to find a member that will side with you on this one. Trolls like yourself that chime in with their negative attitudes for no other reason than being a dick deserve to be called out. Don't act so fucking surprised. Oh yeah, I never said anything about it being "cool" that those guitars cost more than 10k, I was merely stating a fact. Dumbass!!!

You seriously should just stay out of the conversation because obviously lack the mental capacity to understand the simplest of things. No one else in this thread has twice asked what I meant by shallow, senseless, American purchase because they all seem to get it. So, instead of thinking about the next name you're going to call me, why don't you stop for a couple seconds, well actually a couple minutes in your case, and think about what that statement really means.

I'm not burning the guy, I'm purely stating my opinion. Being the internet, opinions are allowed here. When you flaunt your shit, or do something that's no so 'wise', someone's going to voice their opinion. Anyway..

Sure, his 'investment' may make him a few hundred bucks, but to call that an investment is just silly. And to call it a wise investment is just freakin' hilarious. A wise investment is one that is researched and evaluated, practically to point of no doubt. If step outside of being a Suhr fanboy and take a look at any Suhr guitar, they consistently lose money. Why? Because they're primarily custom guitars, and any veteran guitar collector will tell you, custom guitars don't make shit for investments. It's the production models that will make you money, a long ass time from now. That being said, in 20 years, he just might double his money on the ONE production model he bought. As far as value, Suhr gets huge money for them new, and within weeks they're worth 30-40% less, maybe only 20-30% less if the 2nd buyer is a Suhr fanboy. Luckily there's no shortage of Suhr fanboy's for a good reason, and that is because they're incredibly well made guitars. I am not bashing Suhr guitars in any way whatsoever, and I honestly think they're incredibly beautiful guitars. I've owned a Suhr, a Tyler, and recently an Anderson. All of which have lost a good amount of money. Thankfully, I wasn't trying to make money on them, because they lost more money than any good Strat or LP that I've ever bought in 20 years of doing this.

I'm am sorry to you RedRider, I really don't mean to offend you. Judging by your home and taste in furnishings, one would think you've invested a lot of time, passion, and wisdom into your primary investments. This purchase however seems to lack that, hence my shallow, senseless, and purely American purchase comment. I wish you the best of luck.

Clark, just so you realize....NONE of these were Custom guitars. 2 were prototypes of the limited runs of 100 guitars for 08 and 75 guitars for 09. The exotics are production guitars made from "choice" woods picked out by JOhn, but they are NOT made to order, John makes them and are considered production models. Also, you have no clue what I invested into them so how in the world can you know if I would make money on them or not??? Granted, unless I keep them 20 years and Suhr guitars becomes a household name, I probably wont double my investment....but in todays economy even if I only make 10 percent I have done better than most AND I get to play the guitars in the mean time. I have been in the game of buying and selling guitars for about 7 years now and of the 100 - 150 guitars I have bought and sold I usually make 20 - 30% on them and have only lost money on 2, and even that was less than 200 bucks. If you are losing money buying and selling I think you need to look at what you are buying vice criticizing me and my choices...LOL

If you looked at the guitars and all you saw was 4 Floyd Rose guitars and and that turned you off, thats completely fine....I just dont understand why you decided to go out of your way to blast me for buying them is all. Wouldnt it have been just as easy to go to the next thread vice piss on me, piss on american purchases etc..?? DUnno dude....if that what you enjoy doing, your right its the internet and it really doesnt matter to me wether you like the guitars or not so its all good.

Shawn...you are right bro....I am not a musician, I am a talentless hack who works 80 hours a week, is raising 4 daughters, and is lucky to play more than 30 minutes in a week...and thats the beauty of it...I still get to play on some of the most killer guitars ever made for that 30 minutes a week. If I was a musician, actually earning my living by creating music, I wouldnt own any of these guitars, as 1, there would be no way I could afford them, but 2 I would more than likey own some beat up road guitar with 1000's of miles and years of playing on it that has been beaten into the exact tool I desire. Sorry, but I RARELY see "Musicians" with nice gear...to them a guitar isnt something pretty or collectable...its a hammer that is used to drive a nail, a tool meant to be used not admired. Musicians live day to day and are driven to create....sorry bud I am only driven crazy by my kids and collecting guitars is my release from my mundane boring life so I can fantasize about being a rockstar. THing is....I am totally up front about that and no where have I ever stated anything to the contrary. You will NEVER see me criticizing anyone elses music or their motives for owning guitars.....not sure if you were trying to be funny or if you were insulting me....

4 daughters Hats off to you dude,I'm only down to 2 daughters from three and 1 was an absolute nightmare.

 

[Bob Savage]

You will NEVER see me criticizing anyone elses music or their motives for owning guitars.....not sure if you were trying to be funny or if you were insulting me....

Don't mind Shawn, he's the same as us, and isn't a musician either.

 

[glassjaw7]

Heard that brother. My wife and I have a 6 1/2 month old daughter and I have almost NO time for guitar anymore. I play unplugged or through a micro-Fender after they go to sleep every night. I don't get any sleep, but it's worth it to get in a half-hour here and there.

As for the guitar purchase. It is more of an investment than anything else, and a wise one at that. These are very valuable and carefully built guitars. I think a more unthoughtful purchase would be to walk into GC and buy the first strat or LP hanging on the wall just to have one of the "popular" guitars. You made a wise purchase my friend. And not only for the value they hold, but also because they are incredible instruments and any musician should aspire to have great instruments that play well and sound great.

 

[RedRider]

You will NEVER see me criticizing anyone elses music or their motives for owning guitars.....not sure if you were trying to be funny or if you were insulting me....

Don't mind Shawn, he's the same as us, and isn't a musician either.

LOL SO its all good....LOL..you owe me a keyboard though, as I laughed so hard I spewed redbull all over it!! LOL

 

[UltraGary]

Dude....your guitars are HOT!
With all due respects....these guitars are like awesome breasts> While you're defending yourself against jealous bashers, I'm just staring at your guitars, barely paying attention to what you're saying while I nod my head 'Yea, uh-huh...whatever'. Wow.....

 

[Klark]

LOL, I remember when to be a guitar player meant you were a tough bad ass that can handle anything, even honesty. If a couple of the whining sissies in this thread have anything to do with it, guitar players will soon be thought of as sensitive little pansies that turn their heads away from tits & beer, and run away crying when they hear foul language.

RedRider, You don't have to defend yourself, or your purchase, I don't really care what you do or buy. As far as my personality rubbing you wrong, Brad never posted any Rig-Talk rules that state 'If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything'. There is no such rule on this forum, or in this industry for that matter. That said, I did NOT realize you were not a musician. So I am sorry for coming at you with my professional side first. Personally, I am a professional in a high-stakes side of the production touring industry, where there is NO time for bullshit or candy coating. If something sucks, it's immediately removed from the production, whether it hurts someone's feelings or not. Same goes for the other forums I hang out on. If someone posts an idea on those forums, he is NOT looking for mommy to wipe his nose and tell him everything's wonderful. He's looking for guys to tell him what's good, and what totally sucks.

Do die-hard Floyd users have guilty consciences? Where you're all getting the idea I have a problem with Floyd's is pretty suspicious - Three of my eleven guitars have Floyds, one of which is my main guitar.

As far as the ridiculous jealousy claims, I've literally bought & sold hundreds of guitars, and currently own eleven. Nine of which are my favorite players. The remaining two are pre-1970's investments that rarely see the light of day, and are worth well more than four Suhrs. Am I tooting my own horn? Absolutely NOT. I am just stating in attempt to show that jealousy has NOTHING to do with this.

It's real fucking simple, I do not believe this is the smartest purchase RedRider could have made. I believe this purchase was a straight-up collection purchase, with a massive amount of big boner factor, shallow American lust all over it. Does my opinion matter? Hell no it doesn't, but don't post your ideas or purchases on the internet if you're going to whine like an amateur poser when your massage doesn't end as happily as you hoped for.

Lastly, I commend you on working 80 hours a week and raising four daughters. You're a better man than me. I have a hard enough time working 60 hours a week and raising one!

 

[Anonymous]

LOL, I remember when to be a guitar player meant you were a tough bad ass that can handle anything, even honesty. If a couple of the whining sissies in this thread have anything to do with it, guitar players will soon be thought of as sensitive little pansies that turn their heads away from tits & beer, and run away crying when they hear foul language.

RedRider, You don't have to defend yourself, or your purchase, I don't really care what you do or buy. As far as my personality rubbing you wrong, Brad never posted any Rig-Talk rules that state 'If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything'. There is no such rule on this forum, or in this industry for that matter. That said, I did NOT realize you were not a musician. So I am sorry for coming at you with my professional side first. Personally, I am a professional in a high-stakes side of the production touring industry, where there is NO time for bullshit or candy coating. If something sucks, it's immediately removed from the production, whether it hurts someone's feelings or not. Same goes for the other forums I hang out on. If someone posts an idea on those forums, he is NOT looking for mommy to wipe his nose and tell him everything's wonderful. He's looking for guys to tell him what's good, and what totally sucks.

Do die-hard Floyd users have guilty consciences? Where you're all getting the idea I have a problem with Floyd's is pretty suspicious - Three of my eleven guitars have Floyds, one of which is my main guitar.

As far as the ridiculous jealousy claims, I've literally bought & sold hundreds of guitars, and currently own eleven. Nine of which are my favorite players. The remaining two are pre-1970's investments that rarely see the light of day, and are worth well more than four Suhrs. Am I tooting my own horn? Absolutely NOT. I am just stating in attempt to show that jealousy has NOTHING to do with this.

It's real fucking simple, I do not believe this is the smartest purchase RedRider could have made. I believe this purchase was a straight-up collection purchase, with a massive amount of big boner factor, shallow American lust all over it. Does my opinion matter? Hell no it doesn't, but don't post your ideas or purchases on the internet if you're going to whine like an amateur poser when your massage doesn't end as happily as you hoped for.

Lastly, I commend you on working 80 hours a week and raising four daughters. You're a better man than me. I have a hard enough time working 60 hours a week and raising one!

<wipes Klark's nose> Everything is wonderful, Klark!

Steve

 

[Bob Savage]

LOL, I remember when to be a guitar player meant you were a tough bad ass that can handle anything, even honesty. If a couple of the whining sissies in this thread have anything to do with it, guitar players will soon be thought of as sensitive little pansies that turn their heads away from tits & beer, and run away crying when they hear foul language.

You must be awful old, Klark, because I don't remember a day where guitar players were "a tough bad ass that can handle anything," and I've been around a few years.

In any event, thanks for the laughs. I LOVE irony!

 

[Anonymous]

LOL, I remember when to be a guitar player meant you were a tough bad ass that can handle anything, even honesty. If a couple of the whining sissies in this thread have anything to do with it, guitar players will soon be thought of as sensitive little pansies that turn their heads away from tits & beer, and run away crying when they hear foul language.

You must be awful old, Klark, because I don't remember a day where guitar players were "a tough bad ass that can handle anything," and I've been around a few years.

In any event, thanks for the laughs. I LOVE irony!

I gotta agree there and almost said the same. 99% of the guitarists I've met have been neurotic, twitchy, skinny (ok, now that they're older they're fat ), little guys who fold at the slightest hint of criticism and coincidentally are their own worst critics. The better the player, the more neurotic and self-doubting... They all seem to like titties and beer though and most curse like sailors...

Steve