The Diezel Zone - Will the Kemper get there.....?

[Heritage Softail]

Whether it's Fractal or Kemper, there's one test I have yet to prove worthy.

I've heard a number of tone matched Diezel sounds, as well as some Kemper Diezel profiles. I've not had the pleasure of going FRFR with my A2 yet, but that's changing once I get my hands on some CLRs. I've had and heard and played a lot of amps. The Diezels - at least to me and the 3 that I've used the most extensively (VH4, Hagen, Herbert) - all have this 3D bounce to them. It's something that is hard to describe, but any Diezel users here on this board will more than likely nod their heads in agreement. It's something that really fills the room - it's massive and very, very deep and 3 dimensional.

Now, my thing is... Will the Axe replicate this 3 dimensionality? Will the Kemper replicate this 3 dimensionality? Won't know and don't know till I get onboard with my stereo CLRs. But if this is indeed a possibility, than holy shit, I'll be damned.

Mojo

And as an edit I will add that this 3 dimensional sonic quality is something I've really only experienced PLAYING the amps, not really ever hearing it captured on CD or the like of bands and musicians.

V,

This is the crux of the apostrophe... Playing is a three part thing for me, the guitar, the amp, and how deep inside the tone I sit. Hard to explain but as you said it is a feeling, not just a sound or sine wave on an o'scope.

I don't play out much, and when I do at a party or with friends, it is always a blast! I am not worn out from it, or not feeling like it is work. It is just fun.

I gotta have an amp where I can pull its hair and slap it's ass.. It is a tactile thing. My ears are slightly ringing from a good long jam time kickin a few heavies with the Twin Jet. That amp has a vibe. It is undeniable I love to watch friends play it... They get that glassy eyed look....

It is a thing... Not a sine wave. I gotta feel that sort of thing out of whatever I play or it ain't worth having. I have worked too long and hard to have a few toys to let some weak ass modeler mess up my fun time.

So I am 100% on board to hear how your good monitors sound to a guy that knows what that feeling is. That is what is so cool about Rig Talk. There are lots of experienced pro musicians and regular part time gigging guys that know what's up. I respect that. Since I know I don't know much, it is possible to learn something here.

I look forward to your full reports. And I know you won't pull any punches cuz it is the flavor of the month.

Peace

 

[gtr31]

I remember the first time the Kemper was mentioned around here. It got NO attention at all, lol.

well they are making up for it now ..

The fact that there is so many arguments and threads getting locked on other forums is a good indicator it's a serious competitor.

 

[Rogue]

It seems you are looking for the experience that accompanies the "amp in the room". I doubt you are going to get that from a device that captures the sound of a miced speaker. Maybe by turning off the cab part and using your own speaker cab with a clean power amp. Even then I would have my doubts.

 

[richardt4520]

I've only owned an Einstein so I'm not sure how close this is to the real thing. they sound pretty good regardless

Herbert:

VH4:

 

[mindseye]

Can the Kemper cop some passable acoustic guitar sounds?

As far as my experience with the Kemper, AxeII and Diezel tones nether came close to my Blueface VH4.
They where both nice and sounded good but neither had that Diezel feel, with more time maybe it could have been dialed in better for me and what I want to hear, we all hear/feel different things when we play our amps so the rig I played very well could have felt spot on to the next cat.

 

[thiswaythatway]

I remember the first time the Kemper was mentioned around here. It got NO attention at all, lol.

Remember the thread that psycodave started a year or 2 ago about the NYC ampshow being a waste of time? Kemper was there I believe and their room was empty. But Dave wouldn't care about the Kemper anyway I'm guessing.

 

[scruffydoo]

I've heard a number of tone matched Diezel sounds, as well as some Kemper Diezel profiles. I've not had the pleasure of going FRFR with my A2 yet, but that's changing once I get my hands on some CLRs. I've had and heard and played a lot of amps. The Diezels - at least to me and the 3 that I've used the most extensively (VH4, Hagen, Herbert) - all have this 3D bounce to them. It's something that is hard to describe, but any Diezel users here on this board will more than likely nod their heads in agreement. It's something that really fills the room - it's massive and very, very deep and 3 dimensional.

Now, my thing is... Will the Axe replicate this 3 dimensionality? Will the Kemper replicate this 3 dimensionality? Won't know and don't know till I get onboard with my stereo CLRs. But if this is indeed a possibility, than holy shit, I'll be damned.

Not sure about Kemper but I don't think the Axe does Diezel's well, dunno what it is, maybe it's the 'bounce' or the 'amp in the room', just sounds and feels a bit generic like many other hard rock/metal patches, doesn't reproduce the rawness or personality of the amp, like typing a letter instead of handwriting one.

Maybe it could get there but for me there's no point tweaking patches all day to copy an amp that sat right next to it

 

[Piero the Guitarero]

I remember the first time the Kemper was mentioned around here. It got NO attention at all, lol.

..I remember this thread, I just had to click "view your posts"

The next step in amp modeling?...

 

[Rogue]

Posted by Cliff over at the Fractal Forum ....

I highly doubt it does nonlinear convolution since that only works for "weak" nonlinearities, clipping cannot be done using Volterra kernels without a prohibitive number of terms and dynamic convolution (i.e. Sintefex) simply doesn't work.

My guess is that it works the way I used to do amp modeling and has the acquisition/analysis functions built-in. Using the EQ->waveshape->EQ paradigm there's probably a built in sweep generator and mic input. The generator sweeps the D.U.T., measures the response and calculates the corresponding EQs.

I've long since moved away from this approach due to the many inadequacies.

If it is doing some non-linear convolution then it could be revolutionary, but I doubt that will be the case since there hasn't been any breakthroughs in that technology.

I'm still a proponent of physical modeling as that allows one to create anew rather than just copying

 

[ttosh]

This shit's getting spooky...

Not really Mo, the Kemper is to amps what real dolls is to sex, it feels the same, you get the same results without a lot of the hassles of the real thing. But you just have to ask yourself, is that what you want, an imitation of the real thing, or the real thing that breathes.....

Just some parody for you, but no matter how real these emulators get they are just that emulators of the real thing. Are they good, yes. Do they have their place, yes! Are they worth their time, of course as you already know. For those that need all those emulated tones they are excellent. For those that prefer to have the inconsistencies of a tube amp, and do not want to mess with anything but their tone and write music, they may not be the best option.

With that said, as you have said many times, they can be combined to be another tool in the toolbox for those that want it. I will stick with a solid tube amp, and the few effects I like. For others they are a godsend, be it the Kemper, Axe FX, Line 6, etc... All are viable options in the right hands, based on their needs.

I would say with the gamete of great tones you can get from your arsenal, there really is not a need for the Kemper, unless you feel there is one, then if yes, that is all that matters.

I know you already know this, but I felt compelled to comment tonight.

 

[glassjaw7]

This shit's getting spooky...

Not really Mo, the Kemper is to amps what real dolls is to sex, it feels the same, you get the same results without a lot of the hassles of the real thing. But you just have to ask yourself, is that what you want, an imitation of the real thing, or the real thing that breathes.....

Wait a minute...They're supposed to breathe??? I've been going about this all wrong.

 

[PBGas]

Kemper guys, please help out. The Kemper buzz is huge. Such a great tool already. All the other profiles are good to great. Undeniable.

Can it pull off the VH4, the Herbert?

Every amp I have or want has a good dozen profiles. Many have been posted here with killer chops on top.

Awesome.

So what is the verdict?

If you can go from a Fender blackface, to rectifier, to Jose Marshall, to MKIIC, to VH4.... What's left not to love? But does it cover the sacred Diezel tone?

Sure can! I owned a Herbert for a number of years as well as an Einstein and have found a couple of profiles that are in the KPA forum that I like. The VH-4 Profile that I use regularly is from the user Fast Red Ponycar. I've borrowed a VH-4 from one of my friends to compare (I've lent him my Kemper for a week as payment!) and even he thought it was great with what I had. I did have to do some very minor eq'ing on the profile to get it to where I liked it. I'm sure someone out there has some clips to post up. I haven't taken them time to do so as of yet. The one thing that I didn't find well profiled were the Amp Factory's Diezel profiles. Just not that well done at all in comparison to some of his other work which is great.