the FINAL word on the Kemper

[Badronald]

All the equipment in the world can't help you write better songs.
The focus is fuzzy.

On this topic, I'd love a Kemper for recording home demo's. Live, tube amps for me.

I've still yet to hear a band live using a direct device that sounded amazing. Most all sounded horrible.

 

[cardinal]

I do agree though: If you buy an amp just so you can profile it and return it, you're a douche bag.

Yeah, that to me is like buying something to play a gig with and then return. Or to have a recording/reamp session and return. Or to have something to play while on vacation and return. I hear of folks doing those things, but it just doesn't sit right.

 

[Vrad]

Guys. The argument that people buy and return amps in an effort to profile them is GROSSLY overstated. Most stores have a return abuse policy.

 

[Vrad]

Also, like someone mentioned... The signal chain used to make the profile will greatly influence the end result. No two people will get the same result profiling the same amp.

Besides, without amps what would we profile? I play my tube amps all the damn time. But I record with the Kemper because my profiles are done way louder than I can ever realistically play.

 

[Stumplegriltskin]

I have the solution. Kemper should sell licenses for EACH amp that is profiled. You have to register each amp, and pay for it. Then that registration payment gets sent to the manufacturer.

Man you hate the Kemper eh?

 

[Bxlxaxkxe]

Ok so if it's hurting the amplifier industry then it's hurting the retailers- both online and brick and mortar. So stop offering the kemper at your store/website. I see it on sweetwater and MF- are they retarded? No. It's not killing them.

I really don't think it's hurting the industry any more than axefx or line6 etc.

People are still going crazy over new amps. People on this forum and others are talking about real amps 95% of the time- and believe it or not we are a huge chunk of the customers.

Everything is ok.

Chill with the drama inducing topics.

 

[bionicmark]

Who the fuck cares.......tube amps are doomed regardless. They will eventually be relegated to just the very diehard folks. Yes I love tube amps, but I love my AFX & KPA more for everything they do so well.

Just like it was inevitable that a Netflix would come along & destroy Blockbuster............technology can't be stopped, sound can't be patented & profilers/modelers will only go from strength to strength.......

How can you say that? Tube amps are doomed?!? Have you seen , heard , or played a fractal / kemper in a live setting.. Sorry to say.. They DO NOT respond & or sound like a real amp. You may as well bring a Roland cube up on stage w/ you. I have been to shows , played a fractal unit Ina live setting , & have friends who are professional FOH & monitor guys.. The feedback is always the same.. Bogus...

The pick attack , feeling , & overall sound of a fractal or kemper will NEVER duplicate or hold a candle to a live , breathing, dialed in tube amp. It's watermelons & pine cones.

 

[Racerxrated]

All the equipment in the world can't help you write better songs.
The focus is fuzzy.

On this topic, I'd love a Kemper for recording home demo's. Live, tube amps for me.

I've still yet to hear a band live using a direct device that sounded amazing. Most all sounded horrible.

Agreed 100%. Great tool for recording and home playing. But live its just not there. Yet anyway.

 

[Bxlxaxkxe]

Ok so if it's hurting the amplifier industry then it's hurting the retailers- both online and brick and mortar. So stop offering the kemper at your store/website. I see it on sweetwater and MF- are they retarded? No. It's not killing them.

I really don't think it's hurting the industry any more than axefx or line6 etc.

People are still going crazy over new amps. People on this forum and others are talking about real amps 95% of the time- and believe it or not we are a huge chunk of the customers.

Everything is ok.

Chill with the drama inducing topic.

Has there been a rash of drama inducing topics?!

Does that make it any better? Just don't have any tolerance for it.

 

[bunghole]

Kreator were using the Kemper at a show in 2013 that I saw, and sounded great. Of course I was rockin out - so I wasn't paying attention to tone anyway. That to me is what is important. If you're too concerned with the bands tone, you're either too picky or the band isn't doing that good of a job.

and I agree to all above who've said that if Kemper owes the other amp manufacturers money, then a lot of people owe Marshall and Fender royalties. On a similar point, I hate when people put that epoxy all over the amp components, when they probably learned how to build amps by modifying Fenders and Marshalls.

 

[Alex_S]

Wow, very emotional topic. Most people are missing his points with their counter arguments though.

* he said, he is fine with people using a Kemper as a tool to easier use your sounds IF you have the original amp
* building a derived amp design is hardly the same as profiling an amp; you need tons of skills and years of practice to derive a new amp and even if you don't care for that it is a "one new copy" and not a cost free multiple copies effect; it is like comparing Napster to the 50s when bands did cover big hits. Both was kind of "stealing" but digital lossless copy killed music industry.
* in the EU dealers can't do anything about the return policy for online sales. This is defined by law (even though I think it's just 10 days and the 30 days is coming from market pressure) and can't be adapted to reduce misuse (besides not selling of course, which would be suicide for a retailer)
* if a Kemper is sounding identically good or not is not the point. It's good enough for people to avoid buying the original product which does the damage to the market
* of course will stores sell kempers even if they get hurt by it on the long run. What should they do. There is always the other store selling it, so you can't stop it (as some people above already said)
* and of course would most hobbyists not have their full Kemper amp collection as real amps, but prop ably they would have bought at least one or two. And there is no God give right to have every amp at your fingertips and therefore "steal" it. As for music etc...
* it might even impact secondary markets long term. Eg many less tube amps mean less tubes are needed.

So I do think he is right with all he says. I completely agree that it will damage a business I do love. But I don't think it is stoppable anymore. Same as it wasn't for music. Technological progress can't be stopped, and never has in human history. Even if it is backfiring big time on us.

Having said all this, the same goes for IRs to record etc. I also do use them in my Axe and for recording. Basically the same thing going on... :-(

 

[guitarplayerone]

This is a slippery slope. So what about IRs, not just for cabs, but specific pieces of equipment?

 

[eraserhead101]

I have used the Kemper and it does am amazing job at getting close to the amp your profiling if you know what your doing. But I don't find it stealing as the kemper profiles your whole chain and the work
you put into it profiling which I find this very different then downloading songs for free which I look down a pond as the person stealing does not have rights to the song and has not pay for the product.

The profiler also only captures a moment in time which is very different then the way the amp sounds vs owning it and let's not forget how much the cab/speaker and mics adds to the mix. Even if it's a D.I profile you need a cab.

I find that the axe-fx and the kemper want me to buy more amps. Hell I have a Friedman modded Marshall on the way and I own a fortin as well.

 

[guitarplayerone]

I have used the Kemper and it does am amazing job at getting close to the amp your profiling if you know what your doing. But I don't find it stealing as the kemper profiles your whole chain and the work
you put into it profiling which I find this very different then downloading songs for free which I look down a pond as the person stealing does not have rights to the song and has not pay for the product.

The profiler also only captures a moment in time which is very different then the way the amp sounds vs owning it and let's not forget how much the cab/speaker and mics adds to the mix. Even if it's a D.I profile you need a cab.

I find that the axe-fx and the kemper want me to buy more amps. Hell I have a Friedman modded Marshall on the way and I own a fortin as well.

I second this. If you have disposable income enough for a Kemper or Axe FX, eventually you'll want the real thing and buy it. That's actually why I've registered on this forum, trying to get my post count high enough to post in the classifieds

 

[Webb]

I have the solution. Kemper should sell licenses for EACH amp that is profiled. You have to register each amp, and pay for it. Then that registration payment gets sent to the manufacturer.

I disagree with EVERYTHING you say.

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. The Kemper actually made me want to buy MORE amps. Before owning a Kemper I had an Axe FX II and a 5150. That's it. Since getting the KPA, my amp collection now includes a CCV, Wizard, Friedman, Peters, Splawn, Fortin, along with various Marshalls. Maybe the amp manufacturers should pay Kemper a royalty for the number of sales it helps inspire.

 

[Orvillain]

His argument is flat out incorrect, and holds no water whatsoever.

The amp business isn't dying because of Kemper, and very very VERY few people with Kemper amps are doing what he claims.

The amp business is dying because:

- Lack of venues
- Market saturation
- Emphasis on lunchbox amplifiers in recent years
- Movement to digital modelling in a general sense, not specific to Kemper

 

[Tone Monster]

It is somehow fucked up. But it is what it is. In the world of business, you had better adapt because human ethics and morals will never be there to make things right. Now if someone would invent the Premium Wine Cloneratorig©, I could drink Opus One every night.

 

[grooveHT]

So, I originally saw this video posted on TGP, and there one of the posters mentioned that the gentlemen in the video also works for/with Joyo pedals, which would completely invalidate all ethical arguments he tries to make. I couldn't make it all the way through the video due to pretension, soooo....

 

[LP Freak]

We need to get rid of the internet....problem solved.

 

[Deleted member 8761]

I agree with mostly what he said. It's a hard time for several parts of the music industry. Consumers want everything for free, piracy remains a big issue and the artists are not getting paid well by companies like spotify. The industry brought it on themselves, but that's another debate.

The Kemper is recording tool. I wouldn't call it stealing. Except for the people returning amps on purpose within the trial period after they recorded it.

I do take his opinion with a grain of salt. His YouTube channel is full with promoting products that do exactly the same, copying circuits or cloning the sounds of the originals. Just look at JoYo pedals...