The great Floyd Rose Big-Block Shootout.

  • Thread starter Thread starter jhale667
  • Start date Start date
jhale667":1q4n66u3 said:
OldSkoolNJ":1q4n66u3 said:
jhale667":1q4n66u3 said:
the same can't be said for the Performance block (you have to make mods to the cavity to even install it) , OR the KGC one it seems.



You are wrong about KGC's fitment
Unless you specify or request a different size with KGC they will automatically send you a 3/4" block but they also offer 1/2" & 5/8" sizes at no extra charge but you have to request it...

Thanks for bumping the post so that I could clarify that for you :thumbsup:


Thanks for clearing that up. :lol: :LOL:

So
, does KGC make brass stoppers? ;)
Not that I need one since I use tremsetters, But if I did want one I can very easily make my own...
But the Luxury of KGC actually owning and doing all their own CNC work is they can make whatever any one wants or requests..
That includes alterations on their blocks also... :thumbsup:
 
Your stumping for your home-team (as opposed to mine) aside - ;)

I have a few Tremsetters lying about, but hear they're a real pain to set up, and have a noticeable 'click' when engaged - can you comment on this? Is it that noticeable? That's why I've been hesitant to install one... :confused:
 
I'm firmly of the opinion now that anything involved in string-transfer should be made of tone-generating materials. The Brass Claws are a subtle yet COOL enhancement to your guitar's overall tone. I highly recommend them. :thumbsup:

BethDethgetsabrassclaw.jpg


(need to go back and clean up my quickie-soldering job, but can already tell the difference sonically.)
 
There is No Home team, My money goes to the company that makes a good product in the USA
and not ran or handled by a Douche Bag or Douche bag business practices like FRUG's ... :thumbsup:



Those stoppers are garbage In my Opinion especially if you want to retain upward tremolo movement...
I could make one with parts and hardware from Lowes in an Hour..

A Hipshot Tremsetter is a bitch to set-up but once you do it you get the hang of it...
Benefits are guitar stays in tune when you break strings..
It allows upward tremolo movement...
You can drop your E string down a full step to D and the guitar will stay in tune.. :thumbsup:

I have been using them since 1994-95 in every guitar I have ever owned, And I have never had any such problems with them, especially click sounds or anything else.. :thumbsup:
 
OldSkoolNJ":1y0lelwv said:
A Hipshot Tremsetter is a bitch to set-up but once you do it you get the hang of it...
Benefits are guitar stays in tune when you break strings..
It allows upward tremolo movement...
You can drop your E string down a full step to D and the guitar will stay in tune.. :thumbsup:

I have been using them since 1994-95 in every guitar I have ever owned, And I have never had any such problems with them, especially click sounds or anything else.. :thumbsup:

We can disagree all day about business practices and whatnot. Our respective opinions of douchebags aside... ;)

Interesting to hear about the Tremsetters. My main hesitation was all the tales of "clicks" I'd heard, especially in regards to upwards movement. I'm quite the fan of floating trems. I think I may have to try one out now, literally have 3 or 4 of them in the parts drawer, and have since around 2000... :lol: :LOL:

Any pointers you can offer in regards to set-ups? I have the Guitar Player Repair guide installation instructions, but always nice to hear from an actual user of the product... :)
 
With all of this talk about KGC and the fit with tremolo blocks I figured I'd chime in and express that Sandy will make ANYTHING for you. (edit: is see this was said already.)

I already have some really KILLER (he he pun intended) totally custom Ibanez blocks. these things are HUGE in comparison to the original and dwarf any competitors product.

KGC is not a guitar accessory shop they are a true machine shop and can make ANY custom Idea you can come up with. In fact I sent a block back and forth three times until it was just perfect. Sandy will make sure you are totally happy and at competitive pricing.

KGC has also done spectrum analysis to choose the metal supplier they use. they checked for strong second order harmonic content.

I also like the nifty spring retainer plates they put on the blocks.

The serializing is admittedly unnecessary but could be used as an identifying factor if the guitar was ever stolen or for insurance purposes. (as previously stated)

My most recent one does in fact touch the body to prevent movement upward. this allows my heavy picking hand to palm mutes violently without bend the strings out of pitch with my palm as I lean on the bride. It makes string changing a breeze, and also adds to the resonance as the body is now largely coupled to the bride by all that surface contact.

It was what I wanted and found to be a plus, for those that want upward movement, design a custom one.

Oh and remember this brass block idea is not new at all. EVH had a brass block and in the 80's there were some manufacturers using brass blocks. this has been done for over 20 years.

here's pics of my latest custom KGC block and my review of it.

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=61720
 
Upward play is something I'm into, but not really that interested in having anything custom-made - I like the fact that I've had zero movement issues with my standard FloydUpgrade blocks....YMMV. I for one don't dig the spring retainer bar (or need for one)... :no:

moltenmetalburn":2p5amkve said:
KGC has also done spectrum analysis to choose the metal supplier they use. they checked for strong second order harmonic content.

Interesting but - Based on what exactly? And what role does second order harmonics play in the overall sound? How does this all make for a "superior" product? Wouldn't a better "rating" be the PSI tolerances, as with the Titanium string block ratings? Makes one curious.

Probably best to quote Adam's site on this one, though:

“Tone is selective – what is right for you may not be right for the next guy. If someone says that they have “the magic bullet” and best tone product – RUN! FloydUpgrades.com tries to educate our clients and offer different options to help you find “YOUR” tone… Nothing is right for everyone. I take great pride in the design and manufacturing of my products as well as my customer service. I offer you options and tools so that you can chase your own tone. Only you know what you like… I hope that I can help you find it!”



Oh and remember this brass block idea is not new at all. EVH had a brass block and in the 80's there were some manufacturers using brass blocks. this has been done for over 20 years.

Actually, it's more like making them old-school - IIRC the original non-production Floyds ALL had larger Brass Blocks, pretty sure the small crappy one was substituted as a cost-cutting measure on the production ones in the 80s (a reeeeeeeally BAD idea). Cost-cutting and tone killing! :thumbsdown:
 
jhale667":2krfqdc3 said:
Upward play is something I'm into, but not really that interested in having anything custom-made - I like the fact that I've had zero movement issues with my standard FloydUpgrade blocks....YMMV. I for one don't dig the spring retainer bar (or need for one)... :no:

moltenmetalburn":2krfqdc3 said:
KGC has also done spectrum analysis to choose the metal supplier they use. they checked for strong second order harmonic content.

Interesting but - Based on what exactly? And what role does second order harmonics play in the overall sound? How does this all make for a "superior" product? Wouldn't a better "rating" be the PSI tolerances, as with the Titanium string block ratings? Makes one curious.

Probably best to quote Adam's site on this one, though:

“Tone is selective – what is right for you may not be right for the next guy. If someone says that they have “the magic bullet” and best tone product – RUN! FloydUpgrades.com tries to educate our clients and offer different options to help you find “YOUR” tone… Nothing is right for everyone. I take great pride in the design and manufacturing of my products as well as my customer service. I offer you options and tools so that you can chase your own tone. Only you know what you like… I hope that I can help you find it!”



Oh and remember this brass block idea is not new at all. EVH had a brass block and in the 80's there were some manufacturers using brass blocks. this has been done for over 20 years.

Actually, it's more like making them old-school - IIRC the original non-production Floyds ALL had larger Brass Blocks, pretty sure the small crappy one was substituted as a cost-cutting measure on the production ones in the 80s (a reeeeeeeally BAD idea). Cost-cutting and tone killing! :thumbsdown:


I'm all for tone being subjective, to each their own is my motto.

we all already agree that brass makes a better sounding guitar than the stock pot metal. I also have no experience with the titanium blocks as I don't find them worth the cost. I also like the tone of the brass better from the comparison clips Ive heard. KGC does in fact offer titanium products as well so if that's your choice for tone they can make you one.

For the Floyds KGC offers the block in varying thicknesses so you wouldn't NEED to have it custom made.

Why one would be against custom made is beyond me, there can be no better fit than the one designed around the end result, but to each their own. Also the opportunity to have a block made for a guitar than none existed was amazing, If it were not for KGC my rare Japanese made tremolo would have no upgrade block at all. there is no other on the market, especially none also threaded for the bar to attach to.

The spring retainer bar is indeed unnecessary as the spring don't pop out without it, I just adds that security that that can't happen, EVER. even if i hang my guitar from my whammy bar around the back of my head. :rock: I also like the added mass, mass = sustain. The KGC blocks dwarf all others in comparison. If you wanted a thicker block without losing the up functionality you could have one custom made.

the second order harmonic content of the block is important because even-order harmonics sound as musical chords (notably octaves), which subjectively makes the sound "richer".


what that means is that when you hear a fundamental note, E for example you are actually hearing the fundamental and all of its harmonics an octave higher each time. fundamental, then second order harmonic which is one octave higher ,then third order which is two octaves higher than the fundamental and so on...

Odd-order harmonics sound less pleasant. Inharmonic distortion is discordant and is often implicated in designs that sound "brash", "harsh", "brittle", etc.

It is a natural phenomenon with sound and the most musical energy comes form the second order harmonic. Second order harmonics also contain less "information" and take less work for the ear brain connection to "decode". the sound takes less work to hear literally.


Guitar amps do make even AND odd order harmonics but the most ear pleasing are the second order and what the designs strive to enhance. the tone all starts from the guitar so enhancing them that early in the chain is beneficial. If not for any other reason this would make the KGC a superior product to its brass counterparts. as you stated earlier.

I do believe that the density of the metal is of utmost importance for maximum sustain, the titanium may indeed win in this department, tungsten I think may even fare better, but I personally like the bell like warm qualities of brass in my guitar, again to each their own.

In the end YMMV as with any product form any company. This was all in my experience.

I have found the KGC products suit me personally and as an all custom shop can service ANYONE with ANY instrument with a tremolo that would like an upgraded sustain block.
 
Interesting info on the harmonic content. And yes, we totally agree Brass is a huge improvement over the standard. In hindsight I think perhaps my clip may not be completely translating the full benefit of the Titanium; it's definitely worth it, IMO. I can tell a difference in the various tracks I recorded with my Koa Strat with both the Brass and the Ti apart from the shoot-out clips, and the Ti has a slight edge overall, particularly for leads - at least in my experience. I'm also kind of curious as to what a Tungsten one would sound like.

As for the spring retainer bar, I've gotten kind of aggressive with my bars (lifting the guitar by it for comedic effect, etc.) no pop-out issues whatsoever with the FloydUpgrades blocks, btw. But I can see where you might want that extra assurance if antics of the type you mention are part of your usual playing routine. :D

I certainly didn't mean to imply I'm against having something custom-made if a standard offering won't fit, don't get me wrong.
 
donbarzini":14nf05v8 said:
I've dealt with Adam for a while now, he's aces in my book. I've been doing the block upgrade for a while now but recently ran into one guitar that I prefer the standard dinky block compared to the big brass. I always thought it would be an improvement but I now realize some guitars are better left alone.

:thumbsup:
That's interesting - I've yet to find one that didn't benefit from the Brass upgrade. Guess something out there had to be the exception to the rule... :lol: :LOL:
 
donbarzini":dv1twos1 said:
jhale667":dv1twos1 said:
screamindemon":dv1twos1 said:


I haven't yet, but I'm definitely interested to hear someone's take on one...

If they were not as expensive, I probably would buy a couple. I like the fact that they retain the same original block size so I would still be able to do neat whammy bar tricks like stratotone.

Exactly ! :rock:
 
donbarzini":3jukqjn2 said:
If they were not as expensive, I probably would buy a couple. I like the fact that they retain the same original block size so I would still be able to do neat whammy bar tricks like stratotone.

Since my recessed routs seem to accommodate them, I'd like to try a Big-Block sized one, dunno... one imagines it would either sound huge or like total ass - but not dropping for one at this point either...though of course my inner gearhead tone-freak would be interested to slap one in the same guitar I did the shootout with and record identical examples to compare and contrast...
But ya wonder, is there a point where you can have too much bridge mass? Too much of a good thing, possibly? :confused:

And on a separate but related note - anyone else tried the Brass Spring Claws, btw?
 
forget just the block or saddles i want to try the full TI floyd...



i wonder what the price on that sucker will be?

-Mike
 
jhale667":2ceag56t said:
donbarzini":2ceag56t said:
If they were not as expensive, I probably would buy a couple. I like the fact that they retain the same original block size so I would still be able to do neat whammy bar tricks like stratotone.

Since my recessed routs seem to accommodate them, I'd like to try a Big-Block sized one, dunno... one imagines it would either sound huge or like total ass - but not dropping for one at this point either...though of course my inner gearhead tone-freak would be interested to slap one in the same guitar I did the shootout with and record identical examples to compare and contrast...
But ya wonder, is there a point where you can have too much bridge mass? Too much of a good thing, possibly? :confused:

And on a separate but related note - anyone else tried the Brass Spring Claws, btw?


I tried the brass spring claw, I had no noticeable tone difference but i feelmore secure knowing it is not pot metal...
 
moltenmetalburn":7hww887a said:
I tried the brass spring claw, I had no noticeable tone difference but i feelmore secure knowing it is not pot metal...

That's another good point - even if you can't hear the difference, if you think about it, why have crap metal anywhere in the string-transfer/anchor equation? :thumbsup: I think they do add a subtle something audibly, so I'm going to try them in my Strats with Fender American Vintage trems, too. Can't hurt...
 
yeah it is, i found that out after i posted the vid.

-Mike
 
Back
Top