The Small Amp police

[ConcreteVampire]

Alot of you know about my 50 watt jones... I'd abuse em thru a 4x12... but I drive Mustangs so I'm relegated to 2x12's...
I need a midget roadie.
And a Van.

 

[petejt]

I have been notice a good number of posts on another forum where the small amp police come in to say that we are using too big of amps or that we don't need a 412 or two.

Come stand with me in defense of Big amps and 412's. Why do we do it? Cause me like them. If I want to play a 100Watt Marshall with an attenuator I can do so. If I want to run a big amp clean with pedals and like the results, than let me be.

So has anyone had any soundmen, venue owners, or other bandmates questions why you need such a powerful amp or a 412 or two?


I should mention too, that I like small amps. But don't tell me I have to use one or I am wasting my big amp by running it at low volumes.

I post a bit on TGP so I'll come along & contribute. I wish I had my other 4x12 fixed up, then I could shoot a pic of both cabs with my rig & pedalboard.


I think the whole 'small amp police' thing is ludicrous. If you enjoy playing music, then use whatever the hell you want to use. No one should tell you what you SHOULD use.

Personally I am getting really fed up with TGP thinking it is the Oracle- the Voice of Reason for people who cannot make up their minds, or just ask for what they want to hear to justify their decisions. Some could say "I think my amp is too loud- should I sell it?"-> well then just turn the damn thing down!

I like the sound of a 4x12, and nothing less. Personally I think you're kidding yourself if you think a 1x12 cab can have the same sonic impact as a 4x12 cab. And also I think a small cab sitting on a chair looks silly on a stage. A stack of cabs looks better to me, but that's just me.
I really think that a lot of active members on TGP have very little experience with performing music beyond the confines of their apartment bedroom, and appealing to other members of that forum. They have pipe-dreams and think they know everything.

I run a 50 watt amp 'clean' with pedals, alongside a channel switcher whose gain & sustain crushes most dirt boxes. It works great for me. I'm not currently gigging but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be in the future. I'm not going to wait until then to buy a "big amp" and just make do with a small amp in the meantime.

 

[steve_k]

I have been notice a good number of posts on another forum where the small amp police come in to say that we are using too big of amps or that we don't need a 412 or two.

Come stand with me in defense of Big amps and 412's. Why do we do it? Cause me like them. If I want to play a 100Watt Marshall with an attenuator I can do so. If I want to run a big amp clean with pedals and like the results, than let me be.

So has anyone had any soundmen, venue owners, or other bandmates questions why you need such a powerful amp or a 412 or two?


I should mention too, that I like small amps. But don't tell me I have to use one or I am wasting my big amp by running it at low volumes.

I post a bit on TGP so I'll come along & contribute. I wish I had my other 4x12 fixed up, then I could shoot a pic of both cabs with my rig & pedalboard.


I think the whole 'small amp police' thing is ludicrous. If you enjoy playing music, then use whatever the hell you want to use. No one should tell you what you SHOULD use.

Personally I am getting really fed up with TGP thinking it is the Oracle- the Voice of Reason for people who cannot make up their minds, or just ask for what they want to hear to justify their decisions. Some could say "I think my amp is too loud- should I sell it?"-> well then just turn the damn thing down!

I like the sound of a 4x12, and nothing less. Personally I think you're kidding yourself if you think a 1x12 cab can have the same sonic impact as a 4x12 cab. And also I think a small cab sitting on a chair looks silly on a stage. A stack of cabs looks better to me, but that's just me.
I really think that a lot of active members on TGP have very little experience with performing music beyond the confines of their apartment bedroom, and appealing to other members of that forum. They have pipe-dreams and think they know everything.

I run a 50 watt amp 'clean' with pedals, alongside a channel switcher whose gain & sustain crushes most dirt boxes. It works great for me. I'm not currently gigging but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be in the future. I'm not going to wait until then to buy a "big amp" and just make do with a small amp in the meantime.

I tried to post over there, but I don't have a 57RI Fender Strat or a Dumble or care about pristine clean.....so, I didn't really fit in. They don't care much for Mr. Jose at the TGP.

 

[petejt]

I tried to post over there, but I don't have a 57RI Fender Strat or a Dumble or care about pristine clean.....so, I didn't really fit in. They don't care much for Mr. Jose at the TGP.

Don't worry about it, just post anyway. I call myself "ChorusCrackpot" over there because I'm always discussing modulation effects. I don't talk much about amps, but when I do I mention that I use a Mesa/Boogie MarkIV and a Marshall JCM 800, and a stereo 4x12 cab. (That'll be TWO stereo 4x12 cabs once I fix the other one up). I do use a dirt pedal to push the Marshall, but that's so it'll keep up with the Lead channel of the MarkIV.

I actually heard a Dumble being used live- on the song Politician in fact! I was literally a few metres away from it. And it sounded terrible! One of the blandest, dullest, weakest, cruddiest sounds I ever heard live. No sustain whatsover. It was in a band with Robben Ford, who was playing through a Line6 DD4 delay pedal and two Fender Twins- he kicked that Dumble to the kerb! And it's funny because TGP always goes on about Robben Ford using a Dumble and that 'Politician' is THE song to play.

 

[stephen sawall]

Anyone that uses more than 5 watts is just a asshole ....it's that simple. Them people with 15 watts amps are wrong .... I know. I have been there ....
5 watts, single 8 inch speaker and pedals ....the rest of it is nonsense ....how dare you use that much midrange ...

I think the real problem is many people do not really understand the difference between watts and dB's ... they are very different things...

 

[Zachman]

Here is an excerpt from a similar thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluffalo
cranked 4x12's in a small venue are for guitarists who think they are the centre of the universe and that they are the most important.

too bad it only sounds better to themselves, and not anyone else.

-end quote-

My response

I find that mostly that argument is presented by kids who live at home w/ mom, and want to pretend their tiny bedroom 5 watt amps are superior in every situation-- or by hobbyists, amateurs, collectors or purist narcissists who don't have the presence of mind to realize that there are other genres and venues other than coffee houses, pubs and little quaint bars which pay the band $50 a night to play to crowds of not much more than 20 people.

Cranked 4x12's in a small venue.... (Love the ridiculous qualifier) LOL... As if you need to crank a 4x12 to have it sounding bigger/better than a little combo. FWIW, not all of us here only play small venues. There are some of us who have multiple rigs and are actually capable of choosing appropriately what to use, and how to use them.

Sure there are exceptions to the rules, but it's the exceptions which define the rules.

Big boy toys are for big boys, who know how and when to use them appropriately. Just because someone can afford an Enzo Ferrari, doesn't mean one can drive like Mario Andretti, but even if one can't drive it like Mario-- it's still an Enzo, not a Yugo. See.... Exceptions and rules... Also, the guys w/ Ferrari's likely have more than one vehicle, and if they need to haul gear, they usually have a choice which one to take vs which one they're taking to the track. ALL gear are mere tools to get a job done.

Learn to use the tools of the trade... and choose them appropriately and there's no problems, just a selection of solutions.

I just think it's ludicrous that guys who only like/prefer small amps, take issue w/ guys who have other preferences/needs. What the hell is the point? I mean it's not like they have to use, move, setup or tear down someone else's rig right???

Of course, there are guys who play too loud and use gear inappropriately on BOTH sides of the isle, so... with that I would urge you to Just relax.

Well said!

People must really make fun of me because I typically play through FOUR 4x12's in my basement...two of which are powered by an HH V800. Overkill, yes, but I don't think anyone who has ever heard my rig leaves saying it sounds bad

pschodave for president!!!


Since WHEN, was overkill something to be avoided? I mean they say that like it's a bad thing.

Bottom Line: Those who CAN... DO (IF, we choose)

Like you, I prefer to have options. I would rather have more and NOT "Need" it, than to NEED more and NOT have it.
I discovered that "Less", is often just "LESS"--- NOT more.

Personally, I'd rather roll a 4x12 across a parking lot, than to have to hand carry my 1x12 Boogie MKIII combo. Granted, I would use a Rock Cart/dolly-- to roll the combo across a parking lot, if I do a gig at a small venue w/ limited stage space--NOT because I prefer the smaller sound.

 

[shreder75]

use what you dig..end of story...too many people turn this sort of thing into a dick measuring contest...

I love my 4x12, and I dig my 2x12 for other things....

but what do I know..I like weird mids and cheap ass guitars..lol

 

[blackba]

Props to Zachman for setting me straight a good while back. I was starting to fall into the TGP trap and thinking I had too large of amps. Zachman set me straight by saying something like 'If you get the tones you like with the amps you have, who cares what their wattage is.'

I just get tired of seeing on TGP how big amps and 412's have not place in most venues. I remember a thread recently where a guy's band was giving him crap about using a 412. The thing is he hauled the 412 and sounded better with the 412, so I didn't get whey they cared. As was pointed out, its not like a 412 takes up much more room than a 212 or 112, and in some cases a 412 takes up no more room at all.

I also asked on a thread about the YJM100, AFD100, and JVM410 how the power scaling was on the YJM100, AFD100 compared to the master volume on the JVM410 and which one sounded better a low volume. A person got a kick out it and compared my question to 'how does this performance sports car do at 25Mph."

 

[Zachman]

Props to Zachman for setting me straight a good while back. I was starting to fall into the TGP trap and thinking I had too large of amps. Zachman set me straight by saying something like 'If you get the tones you like with the amps you have, who cares what their wattage is.'

I just get tired of seeing on TGP how big amps and 412's have not place in most venues. I remember a thread recently where a guy's band was giving him crap about using a 412. The thing is he hauled the 412 and sounded better with the 412, so I didn't get whey they cared. As was pointed out, its not like a 412 takes up much more room than a 212 or 112, and in some cases a 412 takes up no more room at all.

I also asked on a thread about the YJM100, AFD100, and JVM410 how the power scaling was on the YJM100, AFD100 compared to the master volume on the JVM410 and which one sounded better a low volume. A person got a kick out it and compared my question to 'how does this performance sports car do at 25Mph."

 

[rottingcorpse]

people who tell others what they should play though have issues other than gear.

it's one thing to make suggestions to those who ask for advise. it's another to tell others what to do, and scorn those who do not do what you tell them to do.

i grew up watching kings make metal in front of walls of stacks. always wanted a wall for myself. i love the sound. screw the haters.

 

[rcm78]

Not all TGP members are the same. I use a 100watt bogner thru a 4x12. But I will use a 2x12 on occasion. Those 4x12's are getting heavy damnit. So much hate for TGP on this forum. It's weird.

 

[strungup]

I like different amps for different situations. Overall though I find bigger amps through 4x12's usually sound better to me even at lower volumes than the small amps. I do have a killer 2x12 cab and even a great 1x12 cab that I will use if time, space or laziness dictate, but I would choose the bigger cab and bigger amp 95% of the time for even the smallest gigs.

 

['63-Strat]

I like different amps for different situations. Overall though I find bigger amps through 4x12's usually sound better to me even at lower volumes than the small amps. I do have a killer 2x12 cab and even a great 1x12 cab that I will use if time, space or laziness dictate, but I would choose the bigger cab and bigger amp 95% of the time for even the smallest gigs.

Me too for the bands I'm playing with right now. Playing too loud for a given venue has nothing to do with the wattage of your amp/size of your cab and everything to do with being a moron, IMO.

 

[Zachman]

I like different amps for different situations. Overall though I find bigger amps through 4x12's usually sound better to me even at lower volumes than the small amps. I do have a killer 2x12 cab and even a great 1x12 cab that I will use if time, space or laziness dictate, but I would choose the bigger cab and bigger amp 95% of the time for even the smallest gigs.

Me too for the bands I'm playing with right now. Playing too loud for a given venue has nothing to do with the wattage of your amp/size of your cab and everything to do with being a moron, IMO.

+ eleventyzillion

 

[stephen sawall]

it's one thing to make suggestions to those who ask for advise. it's another to tell others what to do, and scorn those who do not do what you tell them to do.

It sounds like you are telling people what to do ....
This advise might work with most people, but might not work with all women.

I agree the whole thing is kind of a strange control freak mind set ... between scooped midrange, too much gain and too many watts it gives them plenty to do...

 

[Badronald]

Hmmm. I've played for a long time and have used tons of amps. I did try the low wattage combo thing for a while because it seemed to make sense. I was never able to make it work for me with he exception of a Deluxe Reverb for more classic rock/blues things. Otherwise I prefer the headroom of a 50watt+ amplifier for anything rock or heavier.

There are many things that don't work for me equipment wise. A few of them are: 10" speakers. 18 watt amps. Fuzz pedals (even though I keep buying them in some romantic gesture thinking I'm going to sound like Jimi Hendrix or Eric Johnson and then I come to realize that I hate them and then tell myself I'll never buy one again then I find myself checking local Craigslist thinking I'll just try one more. Then I'll send the guy a note asking him if he still has it. Then he says yes so I never respond to him. Then I repeatedly read reviews of said fuzz pedal and watch every video online with the fuzz pedal. Then I check out the artists using the fuzz pedal. Then I wake up in the middle of the night thinking to myself "maybe I could just make it work for me if I give it some time". Then I notice that a local guy has a Homebrew Electronics UFO fuzz (that octave is so damn cool) (oh dammit, nevermind I've already owned two of them and sold them off) But I keep checking it out anyway. That gold color and extra octave switch is cool and I never did play one with my new amp. Maybe it'll work. Straplocks.

 

[Atropos_Project]

The issue comes, more than likely, from listening to an awful lot of guitarists that use big rigs and generally have no idea how to fit their sound within the context of the band. Axemen are hardly the only ones guilty of this however. I do think that 4x12's do sound better... at a comparable volume, the speakers in the bigger cab seem to be working a bit less hard, which definitely makes for a different sound.

It should also be noted that some of the best guitar tones I've ever heard came through 2x12 or 2x12 combo amps... but most of that had to do with the player.

I personally use a 2x12, because nothing bigger will fit in my car

 

[blackba]

Not all TGP members are the same. I use a 100watt bogner thru a 4x12. But I will use a 2x12 on occasion. Those 4x12's are getting heavy damnit. So much hate for TGP on this forum. It's weird.

Your correct that not all TGP members are the same. I post over there alot and generally like the forum, there are just some things I don't like. Just sharing what I ran into in the past and again recently.

 

[Mailman1971]

Small amps.....Pshhh.....
I got that beat. Working a new MICRO AMP.
Barely seen with the naked eye. Going to be squeezed into this amp shell....
Since its so micro...I have to have my guitar specially wired to play thru it.
But you should hear it when I run it mic'd out thru some 4X12's......can play any club with ease.