Thinking of Diezel

[7 Dying Trees]

Now I've been thinking of getting a diezel for a while now, and I have pretty much got the funds together for one. I am looking at both the VH4, the Herbert and at the same time I am looking the the VHT Ultr Lead and a little bit at the ENGL SE.

Now my current rig I really like, which is a mesa triaxis running through a rivera tbr-5 (just for stupid wattage) and am liking the sounds I get out of it. Rythm wise I tend to go for the recto setting with the dynamic voice on 1, and with both gains set around the 6 mark (been playing with gain 1 lower recently, bout 4.5-5 to tighten it up, fun resistor value control!). I use the rivera as it isn't as thick sounding as the 2:90 and is more transparent. I liked the 2:90, but the rivera won out due to the more hifi sound it has.

Guitar wise I am using ibanez 7 strings (yeah yeah, not the most hifi instrument, but i love em) consisting of universes and some others. I'll be shifting over to bareknuckles in as many as possible over the neck year as I love the ones i recently got.

What I am looking for sound wise is a nice full sound, but not overly full on the bass end, think more towards thrash, to stop low tunings muddying everything up. I am looking for a tight-ish sound with the ability to loosen it up for leads.

Basically I am not a nu-metal guy, aso the fact it'll do insane bass is nice, but not a selling point. I want bite and fullness if that makes sense.

Hence, advice please. This seems to be a place with enough people that will have played these amps and have some experience with the triaxis so can tell me if I am thinking in the right direction.

Ideally I want midi control, which is why the diezels (and to some extent the engl) are appealing.

Anyway, hope this is enough info for people to tell me if I am sniffing in the right direction amp wise!

 

[slate]

hi ,
sounds like the VH4 would do it .
btw , ive tried the Engl's and i can tell you that they are not in the same class as Diezel .

 

[i.ak]

If you are interested I made the move from TriAxis + 2:90 to VH4.

 

[KillDivision]

What I am looking for sound wise is a nice full sound, but not overly full on the bass end, think more towards thrash, to stop low tunings muddying everything up. I am looking for a tight-ish sound with the ability to loosen it up for leads.

Basically I am not a nu-metal guy, aso the fact it'll do insane bass is nice, but not a selling point. I want bite and fullness if that makes sense.

:

You want TOOOOOOOONE.

I went from Mesa Mark III, Mark IV to Recto's to Diezel VH4.
With Recto's i needed a tubescreamer/overdrive pedal to tighten up the palmmutes. I guess the Recto mode in the Triaxis would sound the same. But overdrivepedals kill the cleans.


With the VH4 (EL34) i dont need a pedal, even with PAF type pickups it is really tight. I got a Seymour Duncan TB-14, wich is a high output Paf version, and my palmmutes (Hetfield playing) are really tight and full of tone.
A VH4 doesn't muddy up when you add bass, you always keep the tone.

The VH4 has a big grit, if i should discribe the distortion. The Recto has that too, but with a Recto the grit is too muddy.

The VH4 can be too direct for some people, it can be very in your face. If you want your audience to hear what you are playing, get the VH4.

My 2cents.

 

[7 Dying Trees]

If you are interested I made the move from TriAxis + 2:90 to VH4.

What did you find it was like? I mean, how would you describe the main tonal differences? I had a 2:90 with the triaxis for a while, so it'd be a good reference point in terms of sound

 

[7 Dying Trees]

You want TOOOOOOOONE.

I went from Mesa Mark III, Mark IV to Recto's to Diezel VH4.
With Recto's i needed a tubescreamer/overdrive pedal to tighten up the palmmutes. I guess the Recto mode in the Triaxis would sound the same. But overdrivepedals kill the cleans.


With the VH4 (EL34) i dont need a pedal, even with PAF type pickups it is really tight. I got a Seymour Duncan TB-14, wich is a high output Paf version, and my palmmutes (Hetfield playing) are really tight and full of tone.
A VH4 doesn't muddy up when you add bass, you always keep the tone.

The VH4 has a big grit, if i should discribe the distortion. The Recto has that too, but with a Recto the grit is too muddy.

The VH4 can be too direct for some people, it can be very in your face. If you want your audience to hear what you are playing, get the VH4.

My 2cents.

So would you say the VH4 can do the mark series/recto tones, but cleaner on the recto? I really do like the mark "models" in the triaxis for leads, and love the grit of the rectifier model in it with the dynamic voice set to 1.0 and the "gain resistor" (gain 1) dialed down to make it tighter.

The stuff I am playing I like a defined low end sound for fast picking, but then have a lot of stuff which is erring on the black metal side of things where some amps struggle for note clarity. That and wanting big open chords to sound massive...

I think most people have told me that the VH4 would be the way to go out of the diezels for my style, so what would you think given my slightly more in deoth explanation?

 

[i.ak]

If you are interested I made the move from TriAxis + 2:90 to VH4.

What did you find it was like? I mean, how would you describe the main tonal differences? I had a 2:90 with the triaxis for a while, so it'd be a good reference point in terms of sound

First impression: The Feel and Touch!!! The VH4 felt extremely tight and focused whereas the combination of TriAxis, 2:90 and Mesa Traditional 4x12" (V30) was huge, earthshaking and unclear.

I would say that the main improvement was the clarity and focus. I just couldn't find suitable sound from the Mesa-rig that would have been extremely focused and thus remain clear for fast 7 & 8-string riffage or complex multi-string chords without being too weak and/or thin and buzzy. Sure the Mesas did sound way more huge, but I do not want to sound as a whole band alone anymore. I truly enjoy that I can almost play eight-string chords and still hear the individual strings (of course this has a lot to do with the pickups, etc.).

However, if extreme saturation is your thing the VH4 might not be your thing. I think that is the only territory where the VH4 is not as good as various other aplifiers - But in my opinion that is a key part of the focus-factor. So if you are looking for Rectifierish beehive-saturation I recommend that you look more towards i.e. Herbert. Also, there is more than enough gain on the tap in VH4 it just isn't that chainsaw type of buzz - So do not expect Pantera or Cannibal Corpse.

Also, please remember that VH4 (and Diezels in general) provides you the alternative of using different power amp tubes - A wonderful feature, which I truly appreciate. Currently I am using KT88's which do seriously tear the speakers with their bass amp like punch. However, it seams like that I am going back to something more "reasonable".

Can you describe a little more what kind of sound you are after?

 

[7 Dying Trees]

I am actually not a high gain player, and do think too much gain just makes the sound less punchy and muddier. I pretty much never run the gain on any high gain amp anywhere past 12-1 o'clock. Too much distortion just makes it buzzy and add's a certain spread to everything where it takes a while for the amp to stop dead (not too noticable, well, kind of is, but still).

Anyway, the sound I am after ideally I'd describe is the smoothness of a more mesa inspired preamp with the gain on tap but just there as extra headroom more than using it all, mixed with the more raw/dirty sound of marshalls. You know, so you get that more bluesy sound out of leads rather than sterile shred. That with a good tight rythm heading more towards a thrash tone to keep the 7string tuned to A sitting nicely in a band mix. Basically I have no need for masses of low end, not only does it eclipse the bass player, but live it really just doesn't add anything, just makes the lower frequencies a battle ground for the kick drums, bassist and guitar sound. Totally unnecessary. I'd say rythm wise if you could get that nice clarity like the mark models, mixed with a marshall-ish/recto type of attitude, then that would probably describe it, possibly. But sound is very subjective really.

I'd say think more rock/blues goes death/thrash leanings than shred-hero sterility.

 

[i.ak]

I am actually not a high gain player, and do think too much gain just makes the sound less punchy and muddier. I pretty much never run the gain on any high gain amp anywhere past 12-1 o'clock. Too much distortion just makes it buzzy and add's a certain spread to everything where it takes a while for the amp to stop dead (not too noticable, well, kind of is, but still).

Anyway, the sound I am after ideally I'd describe is the smoothness of a more mesa inspired preamp with the gain on tap but just there as extra headroom more than using it all, mixed with the more raw/dirty sound of marshalls. You know, so you get that more bluesy sound out of leads rather than sterile shred. That with a good tight rythm heading more towards a thrash tone to keep the 7string tuned to A sitting nicely in a band mix. Basically I have no need for masses of low end, not only does it eclipse the bass player, but live it really just doesn't add anything, just makes the lower frequencies a battle ground for the kick drums, bassist and guitar sound. Totally unnecessary. I'd say rythm wise if you could get that nice clarity like the mark models, mixed with a marshall-ish/recto type of attitude, then that would probably describe it, possibly. But sound is very subjective really.

I'd say think more rock/blues goes death/thrash leanings than shred-hero sterility.

My opinion might be biased, but I would vote VH4 for You.

By coming from the same much prefered starting point of lustful TriAxis lead tones I may honestly say that I hardly miss any of these sounds from my previous equipment (maybe only when I am in the mood of jazz-progressive-fusion-haze). I must say that the absolute edge of TriAxis in general is the fluid Mark series lead tones and programmability. Still, I found that I was rather seldom using more than one or two lead sounds from the TriAxis which, especially in band context, I have 95 percently covered with the VH4 ch4 and guitar vol & tone (+ advanced wah usage).

If I would have to pick only single channel for my dream amp it would definitely be the Ch 4 from VH4 with KT88 power tubes. Esp. in lead context.

VH4 has a shitload of deep bass when summoned. I wonder do you talk about bass from 80 - 100Hz or bellow 80Hz? My seven string baritone is also tuned to A (= 55Hz) and my eight string is tuned to F# (= approx. 46Hz) and there is no worries (either way, to reduce or increase) when you adjust the deep control, which affects the master section from frequencies from around 80Hz.

I think that we are both after more or less similar sound. I also prefer my sound not that gainy and grainy, but more like punchy and harmonic. One could argue that dynamic is the correct word here. The admirable thing with the gain in VH4 is that it is all usable and especially if you are familiar with the preamp tube configuration and spend some time tube-tweaking, you can truly modify the sound to meet your requirements. Also if you want more thorough sound stage modification I believe that Mr. Peter Diezel is ready to enlighten you with such modification if you only ask nicely. I assume that you have already recognized that he visits here on forum at daily basis.

Do you happen to have an opportunity to try Diezels? That should prove what I am talking about (or then just state that I have no idea what I am talking about ).

 

[duesentrieb]

To me Engls do sound like a Marshall 8100.
I'm dead serious.

 

[KillDivision]

You want TOOOOOOOONE.

I went from Mesa Mark III, Mark IV to Recto's to Diezel VH4.
With Recto's i needed a tubescreamer/overdrive pedal to tighten up the palmmutes. I guess the Recto mode in the Triaxis would sound the same. But overdrivepedals kill the cleans.


With the VH4 (EL34) i dont need a pedal, even with PAF type pickups it is really tight. I got a Seymour Duncan TB-14, wich is a high output Paf version, and my palmmutes (Hetfield playing) are really tight and full of tone.
A VH4 doesn't muddy up when you add bass, you always keep the tone.

The VH4 has a big grit, if i should discribe the distortion. The Recto has that too, but with a Recto the grit is too muddy.

The VH4 can be too direct for some people, it can be very in your face. If you want your audience to hear what you are playing, get the VH4.

My 2cents.

So would you say the VH4 can do the mark series/recto tones, but cleaner on the recto? I really do like the mark "models" in the triaxis for leads, and love the grit of the rectifier model in it with the dynamic voice set to 1.0 and the "gain resistor" (gain 1) dialed down to make it tighter.

The stuff I am playing I like a defined low end sound for fast picking, but then have a lot of stuff which is erring on the black metal side of things where some amps struggle for note clarity. That and wanting big open chords to sound massive...

I think most people have told me that the VH4 would be the way to go out of the diezels for my style, so what would you think given my slightly more in deoth explanation?

I wouldn't say the VH4 can do mark series. To me mark series sound cardboardboxy, too much mid without bass or body.
The clean on a VH4 is more Fenderisch than a recto-clean. The grit/gainstructure on channel 2, 3 and 4 (on VH4) is very big and bulgy (sorry for the bad englisch) and are focused on the mid-high range, while the rectogrit is more in the high range.
Recto screams, Vh4 barks.

I went to a amp-meeting a few weeks ago with the Diezel to check out amps of other guitarplayers. We had a Powerball, a DDual Recto, a MarkIIC, a Mark4 and my VH4.

The Powerball wasn't the real thing. A lot of highend buzz without any dynamics. Tight, yes. But lifeless. Just for deathmetal.
The Dual Recto was oke, but tends to be too bassy or too scratchy. When palmmuted, a lot of midrange definition disappears. But a Recto will sound good in the studio with multiband compression.
The Mark 2C was okay, but sound totally different than the Recto. It's the Mark sound. In the studio you would want to record 4 tracks or more to get the big sound.
The Mark 4 was allright, but was less liquid than the 2C.

The VH4 stayed focussed, even at high volume. Most people said the VH4 had the most pressure coming from the cab while staying extremely tight. Thats why i sold my brand new Dual to get a secondhand VH4. Most amps just fart out when you are palmmuting, the VH4 stays focussed.

I couldn't comment on a herbert, because i never played one.

Hope this helps.

 

[KillDivision]

To me Engls do sound like a Marshall 8100.
I'm dead serious.

hahahaa

My feet are currently on a Marshall 8100 right now!! Really.
Works fine as a footbench to get my feet towards the central heating unit. Perfect in these cold days, i have nice warm feet now.