Rackman
Well-known member
The best thing that could happen to Fender would be to settle on Thomann's terms tomorrow. The longer this persists the more billable hours accrue, and the more customers they lose. There is literally nothing they can gain by doing this. People who buy Shur and Anderson, or for that matter Edwards and Harley Benton, are not going to switch no matter what. They will just move on to another source of better, cheaper gutiars.even if they win, it will be challenged. The only winners are the law firms.
Still, I'd like to see a Fender win; I can imagine the response....the meltdowns will be epic and entertaining.
rsm
Well-known member
yes, very common unfortunately. I'm sure many aliexpress sellers are the same with many accounts owned by the same people.
I have a Chibanez that Ibanez won' t make, I've asked them. The Ibanez custom shop only does work for their signed artists. Not my finest decision, and it does bother me at some level; then again if Ibanez won't make what I want, someone else will and does. Doesn't make it right tho' If Ibanez made it, I'd buy it.
S̷͖͑m̵͎͂á̵̺s̸͚̈́h̴̬̑
Hack
The only thing fender makes well is jackson
BlueParfait
Well-known member
you sound emotional, is it that time of the month? "corporations aren't people" - not what the US law says: corporations are considered "artificial legal persons" and have some rights.
who built what doesn't matter, who owns it does.
you don't buy a business to give away what you own. If you own the business you want to monetize and maximize the assets you own.
welcome to capitalism.
Welp, welcome to Indians replacing you and you paying their "reparations"
BlueParfait
Well-known member
rsm
Well-known member
Welp, welcome to Indians replacing you and you paying their "reparations"
not me, I retired early.
my response is more for OT, see you there.
The~Kid
Well-known member
This but the Fender Ultra Luxe models aren't bad either....... Those things are nice but yes the Charvels are where it's at.
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V
VonBonfire
Well-known member
My old lady's mexican thinline tele is sweet!
7704A
Well-known member
Can be. Making a better mouse trap, to use the phrase. But it doesn't need to be to be validated. Trolling like Fender stifles the innovation building on the strat along with the others just flat out copying.
Nothing was taken. The idea for the guitar was not plucked out of the creator's head, nor were they deprived of any of their property. They still have all the guitars they made, or the money they got in exchange for them.
Leo Fender. Not FMIC. And nothing wrong with copying unless you agreed to not to.
The~Kid
Well-known member
The Brad Paisley Sigs aren't bad either
Floyd Eye
Well-known member
I have an American Fender Tele I love. And a pile of P, J and short scale offset basses I don’t. I take that back, one J, an American Deluxe is bad ass. The rest of them are actually for sale if anyone’s interested.
CoreyW
Well-known member
Just staying in the category of instruments.
What should be allowed to be trademarked?
Drums, they all look pretty damn similar, but they have been around a lot longer than electric guitars.
Horns? Same as drums…
Pianos? Same as above..
Keyboards… well we didn’t get the first real digital ones until the 80s?, but they maintain a fairly common appearance across brands, if you removed the badges off one I would suspect most non keyboard players wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between a Yamaha, Korg, Roland, Casio, or any of the others.
Fender invented the Strat, and they own it, but where does a shape that is synonymous with an instrument, go from being a protected trademark to public domain?
What should be allowed to be trademarked?
Drums, they all look pretty damn similar, but they have been around a lot longer than electric guitars.
Horns? Same as drums…
Pianos? Same as above..
Keyboards… well we didn’t get the first real digital ones until the 80s?, but they maintain a fairly common appearance across brands, if you removed the badges off one I would suspect most non keyboard players wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between a Yamaha, Korg, Roland, Casio, or any of the others.
Fender invented the Strat, and they own it, but where does a shape that is synonymous with an instrument, go from being a protected trademark to public domain?
Simon Dorn
Well-known member
The funny thing is: Thomann is bigger than Fender.This is potentially-huge. I'll probably add this to the home page at the end of the week.
Here's the full article from Gearnews.com:
Article at Gearnews
Thomann Sues Fender: Music Retailer Goes on the Offensive in Stratocaster Dispute
World's Largest Music Retailer Stands Up for Countless Affected Guitar Makers
It’s official: Thomann sues Fender The world’s largest music retailer is firing back with a legal counterpunch against the wave of cease-and-desist letters the US guitar maker has been sending for weeks to manufacturers and retailers of S-style guitars across Europe and the US. With the lawsuit, Thomann says it’s standing up for its own brand Harley Benton, along with a whole string of other affected companies. Here’s the statement.
The Bottom Line
- Thomann has taken legal action against Fender
- The dispute is rooted in a default judgment from the Düsseldorf Regional Court in December 2025
- Since May 2026, Fender has been sending cease-and-desist letters to S-style guitar manufacturers and retailers through the law firm Bird & Bird
- Thomann’s own brand Harley Benton is caught up in the wave of letters too
- Thomann wants the copyright infringement claims settled in a proper court proceeding
- CEO Hans Thomann frames the move as a responsibility toward the entire industry
- Thomann is calling on Fender to stop the letters and return to a cooperative relationship
The Backstory: Weeks of Cease-and-Desist Letters
The whole thing traces back to a default judgment from the Düsseldorf Regional Court in December 2025. The court ruled at the time that the Stratocaster’s body shape counts as a copyrighted work of applied art. The defendant was a Chinese seller shipping nearly identical copies into Germany via AliExpress, who never even showed up in court.
Starting in May, Fender used that ruling as grounds to send cease-and-desist letters through the law firm Bird & Bird to manufacturers and retailers across Europe and the US. The demands included halting production and sales, recalling guitars already sold, and handing over customer and sales data. PRS and several smaller American luthiers have since publicly confirmed they received one of these letters.
Fender CEO Edward “Bud” Cole addressed the industry backlash publicly for the first time in mid-June, insisting the company wasn’t suing anyone, just reaching out to a handful of businesses. Now Thomann is upping the ante: Thomann is suing Fender, turning defense into offense.
A Shared History Going Back to 1954
1954 was a big year for both companies. Fender launched the Stratocaster that year, and Thomann was founded the same year. Fender instruments landed in Thomann’s catalog not long after, and they’ve stayed there ever since. Thomann says it’s carried the brand with genuine conviction for more than 70 years now, and plenty of Thomann employees play Fender guitars themselves.
That’s exactly why Thomann’s statement leans into the personal side of this fight. The company says it found Fender’s current approach toward longtime business partners surprising and disappointing, language that says a lot about how far this relationship goes beyond a simple buyer-seller arrangement.
Form Follows Function: The Core Argument
At the heart of the statement is a principle Thomann sums up as form follows function. The Stratocaster didn’t become successful purely because of its looks, the company argues, but because of its ergonomics. The upper horn balances the instrument, the cutaways make the upper frets easier to reach, and the body contours add comfort. All of that, Thomann says, was originally designed to give musicians the most functional instrument possible.
Thomann Sues Fender Over the Wave of Cease-and-Desist Letters Against S-Style Guitar Makers and Retailers · Source: Thomann
That functional logic, Thomann goes on, has made the shape a starting point for countless variations over the decades. Small workshops and established manufacturers alike have kept reinterpreting the S-style concept generation after generation. In the US itself, the shape has long been considered public domain.
As an example, Thomann points to Eddie Van Halen’s legendary Frankenstrat. That kind of free experimentation is exactly what gave rise to the SuperStrat, a development that still inspires guitarists and builders today, one Thomann says even Fender itself ultimately benefited from.
Why Thomann Is Acting Now
Thomann says the current escalation hits close to home, since its own Harley Benton brand is caught up in the wave of letters too. The company says it wants to keep offering customers the full range of the guitar world going forward. It’s experiencing the situation as both a retailer and a manufacturer at the same time.
Thomann is suing Fender for smaller manufacturers too, the ones who could never afford a legal fight like this on their own. The company explicitly says it wants the copyright infringement claims settled in a proper, neutral court proceeding where both sides get to make their case. The Düsseldorf ruling so far never went through an actual evidentiary hearing, a meaningful difference from a fully contested trial.
CEO Hans Thomann adds: “We used to be a small music store ourselves and know exactly where we have come from. Diversity, fairness and respectfully dealing with each other have always been part of our philosophy. Many of those affected do not have the financial and legal means to conduct such a legal dispute. We therefore see it as our responsibility to have this matter clarified in court not only for our own company, but for all parties involved.”
Thomann specifically names manufacturers outside its own catalog too. Custom shop brands and innovators like Tyler, Tom Anderson, Suhr, LSL, Maybach, Pensa, FGN, and PRS get cited as examples of a diverse guitar scene the company believes is now at risk because of how this is unfolding.
The Appeal to Fender
Thomann closes the statement with a direct appeal. The Stratocaster’s story, the company argues, was always written by musicians, builders, and manufacturers around the world, never by a single company. That diversity is exactly what Thomann sees as one of the industry’s biggest strengths.
Thomann says it plans to keep pursuing this legal path, for its own company as well as for the many manufacturers, retailers, and luthiers who’ve shaped the industry for decades. The company is calling on Fender to stop the cease-and-desist letters and get back to a cooperative relationship.
Bottom Line and My Take on “Thomann Sues Fender”
Thomann is suing Fender, and that pushes the fight over the Stratocaster’s shape into a whole new phase. Instead of individual cease-and-desist letters and public statements, there’s now an actual court case on the table, one where both sides will have to lay out their arguments. Thomann says there’s no formal coordination with other affected manufacturers or retailers, the company is acting on its own legal footing here. How Fender responds to this is obviously still up in the air for now. As always, we’ll keep you posted.
Whether Thomann actually moves the needle with this is hard to call right now, but it’s safe to say almost nobody in the industry is watching this one from the sidelines. Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if this case ends up answering some bigger questions, like how far shape protection in guitar building should really reach, or whether Fender ends up backing down completely. What’s your take? Drop a comment, we’re curious to hear how you see this one.
Mike Oxhuge
Well-known member
rsm
Well-known member
the original idea / design / creation isn't the copiers. making changes to the original designs is a derivative which is still a form of cpying.
If Fender legally owned the rights to their original design, they'd be able to monetize and defend it. The fact that Fender can't legally monetize or defend their original design does not change the fact that they created the original design, or that anyone who copies or makes derivatives is using Fender's original creations / designs
FMIC owns Leo Fender's creations; which is why they are in court over them.
rsm
Well-known member
that didn't work out well for American "Indians". May not work out well for Indian Indians.
USA isn't western Europe; or Canada (aka New India)
all topics for OT tho', not here
MadAsAHatter
Well-known member
That's just an Italian playing dress-up. It doesn't count.
rsm
Well-known member
jabps
Well-known member
That's really the end of the discussion. Leo could have trademarked it, he didn't and thus why we are here. Fender lost this case in 2009 because form and function of the Strat over time had become generic, they'll lose again. End of the day Leo should have trademarked it, he didn't for whatever reason, some of which have been mentioned.
At this point Fender needs to concede the lawsuit and beat PRS, Thomman and others at their own game.
Streamline the Strat line, lord it's a mess with all the line variants. I mean if I counted right and their site is shit, they have 11 versions of the Strat not including signature models. That's fucking ridiculous. Offer 4 lines, don't skimp on quality while offering a better price point than Suhr or PRS etc... and bury those guys. Nobody can convince me that cannot be done even in this economy. At the same time, don't ignore players like John Mayer, that's your product out there he's playing "because it says Fender" on the headstock.
The one thing they have going for them, that they seem to have forgotten themselves is the brand itself. Like Gibson, or Marshall etc... it still carries weight. Use that because most players will go to the source first before looking at something else.
My 4 lines of the Strat -
1. Vintage. Total vintage in every way with 21 frets.
2. Vintage Modern. Vintage hardware, 22 frets. Larger frets. And either single or hum in the bridge. Vintage radius. Think Suhr Classic S.
3. Modern. 2 point trem, 22 frets, locking tuners, beefier frets, with either single or hum in the bridge. Vintage radius. Think Suhr Classic S Plus or the Strat Ultra series from the 90's which are some of the best guitars Fender ever made.
4. Modern F. Floyd Rose, jumbo frets. With the option of single or hum bridge. 12" radius. Total hot rod.
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