Thoughts on the small amp trend

[stephen sawall]

I was under the impression the smaller amps were aimed at recording, maybe that was a wrong assumption. With the drummer I used to play with a 10 watt amp would not cut it at all

How many and what kind of speakers were you using ?

 

[billboogie]

 

[billboogie]

I just jumped on gmarts.org and read that a 100watt amp though the same speakers as 50watt amp is only 3dbs louder. Is this correct? I just want to get my facts straight. Sorry for misleading anyone before but I'm still a little confused. Also cranked tube saturation is not for everyone, it is a matter of taste.I may have to change tubes a little more often but my two 6v6's and two L84's are gonna cost me less than your larger wattage tubes so I don't see that as a drawback.

 

[blackba]

I just jumped on gmarts.org and read that a 100watt amp though the same speakers as 50watt amp is only 3dbs louder. Is this correct? I just want to get my facts straight. Sorry for misleading anyone before but I'm still a little confused. Also cranked tube saturation is not for everyone, it is a matter of taste.I may have to change tubes a little more often but my two 6v6's and two L84's are gonna cost me less than your larger wattage tubes so I don't see that as a drawback.

That is correct, 3dB for doubling power with everything else held constant (which it rarely is).

I think I am just questioning whether its worth it to own larger amps when not playing out. I don't have a line of site to use my amps to play out in the future. My current gig I use the house amps. I feel like I am idling my 35-100Watt amps....

 

[Mokaccino]

I just jumped on gmarts.org and read that a 100watt amp though the same speakers as 50watt amp is only 3dbs louder. Is this correct? I just want to get my facts straight. Sorry for misleading anyone before but I'm still a little confused. Also cranked tube saturation is not for everyone, it is a matter of taste.I may have to change tubes a little more often but my two 6v6's and two L84's are gonna cost me less than your larger wattage tubes so I don't see that as a drawback.

That is correct, 3dB for doubling power with everything else held constant (which it rarely is).

I think I am just questioning whether its worth it to own larger amps when not playing out. I don't have a line of site to use my amps to play out in the future. My current gig I use the house amps. I feel like I am idling my 35-100Watt amps....

I'm lucky enough to play a lot of times - indoor or outdoor gigs - through a 40w amp and it's still too loud. I am definately aiming for something like 15-20w on my next amp purchase. It's still gonna be too loud, all my gigs are mic'ed anyways.

 

[1big1]

i've been seeing a lot of smaller 2x12 lower wattage combos being used on stage lately.. by lots of different acts. i've also seen metal bands that carry large backlines as well.. but turn around and use iso cabs and di's set off stage. i think it all depends on what you need to get the job done. a 65 amps 50 watter through a 2x12 cab is pretty seriously loud when you're standing in front of it. some acts don't even put them in line of sight but hide them upstage and mike them facing away from the stage.
i'd seriously consider something like an ht 5 for a couple of reasons. slaving.. recording.. and low volume wankage. that and i have a bunch of 12bh7's so re-tubing wouldn't be a problem.. and i still have my hearing.

 

[1big1]

In a couple of yoears I will force my drummer to use a "plexi-cage", the bassplayer to get a tube powerded DI - and I myself will use max. 20 Watts on stage.

In the living room my Little Joe sounds as full as my VH4. In many other cases a 100 Watter may sound bigger than
the average 15 Watter, which is true, but with some "magic" thats also possible at room level, its just a question of design.

Of course the 100 Watter will sound bigger at higher volume levels.

isolation= more control. you're not fighting multiple sources bleeding through each other. it's easier to mix monitors either through wedges or iem's.. and foh doesn't have that problem either.

 

[Mailman1971]

Just got my new small amp in.
Taking it to the next gig.
Going to slave it out to a 4X12 and rock the house.

What you guys think?

Sorry.....couldnt resist!!

 

[Zachman]

Just got my new small amp in.
Taking it to the next gig.
Going to slave it out to a 4X12 and rock the house.

What you guys think?

Sorry.....couldnt resist!!

 

[Zachman]

In a couple of yoears I will force my drummer to use a "plexi-cage", the bassplayer to get a tube powerded DI - and I myself will use max. 20 Watts on stage.

In the living room my Little Joe sounds as full as my VH4. In many other cases a 100 Watter may sound bigger than
the average 15 Watter, which is true, but with some "magic" thats also possible at room level, its just a question of design.

Of course the 100 Watter will sound bigger at higher volume levels.

isolation= more control. you're not fighting multiple sources bleeding through each other. it's easier to mix monitors either through wedges or iem's.. and foh doesn't have that problem either.

Better hope you can trust the sound man's gear and ability. I've found that most "so called" foh "sound guys", in little clubs, aren't even qualified to turn on my radio.

 

[Zachman]

i've been seeing a lot of smaller 2x12 lower wattage combos being used on stage lately.. by lots of different acts. i've also seen metal bands that carry large backlines as well.. but turn around and use iso cabs and di's set off stage. i think it all depends on what you need to get the job done. a 65 amps 50 watter through a 2x12 cab is pretty seriously loud when you're standing in front of it. some acts don't even put them in line of sight but hide them upstage and mike them facing away from the stage.
i'd seriously consider something like an ht 5 for a couple of reasons. slaving.. recording.. and low volume wankage. that and i have a bunch of 12bh7's so re-tubing wouldn't be a problem.. and i still have my hearing.

Imo, an HT-5 is a GREAT little amp and entirely the WRONG choice if something like a 65 Amp's sound is what is required. As far as the 50 watt amp being loud... That is what the volume knobs are for.

 

[Zachman]

I just jumped on gmarts.org and read that a 100watt amp though the same speakers as 50watt amp is only 3dbs louder. Is this correct? I just want to get my facts straight. Sorry for misleading anyone before but I'm still a little confused. Also cranked tube saturation is not for everyone, it is a matter of taste.I may have to change tubes a little more often but my two 6v6's and two L84's are gonna cost me less than your larger wattage tubes so I don't see that as a drawback.

That is correct, 3dB for doubling power with everything else held constant (which it rarely is).

I think I am just questioning whether its worth it to own larger amps when not playing out. I don't have a line of site to use my amps to play out in the future. My current gig I use the house amps. I feel like I am idling my 35-100Watt amps....

I'm lucky enough to play a lot of times - indoor or outdoor gigs - through a 40w amp and it's still too loud. I am definately aiming for something like 15-20w on my next amp purchase. It's still gonna be too loud, all my gigs are mic'ed anyways.

I don't get this at all. My gigs are mic'd too, at the bigger gigs I use a HUGE w/d/w rig w/ (4) amps through (3) 4x12's-- Amps ranging from 40 Watts to 180 Watts and I am NEVER too loud on stage.

 

[Zachman]

I just jumped on gmarts.org and read that a 100watt amp though the same speakers as 50watt amp is only 3dbs louder. Is this correct? I just want to get my facts straight. Sorry for misleading anyone before but I'm still a little confused. Also cranked tube saturation is not for everyone, it is a matter of taste.I may have to change tubes a little more often but my two 6v6's and two L84's are gonna cost me less than your larger wattage tubes so I don't see that as a drawback.

That is correct, 3dB for doubling power with everything else held constant (which it rarely is).

I think I am just questioning whether its worth it to own larger amps when not playing out. I don't have a line of site to use my amps to play out in the future. My current gig I use the house amps. I feel like I am idling my 35-100Watt amps....

If you're getting the sounds you want, while "idling" your amps, your tubes are going to last you longer. (assuming you're using tube amps)

 

[jerrydyer]

I thought the Vox Night Train suonded pretty cool.

 

[blackba]

If you're getting the sounds you want, while "idling" your amps, your tubes are going to last you longer. (assuming you're using tube amps)

I pretty much am getting the sounds I want idling my tube amps. The one exception is my Marshall 2553 Silver Jubilee. Using that amp at practice with a little volume behind it in my last band, just kind of makes me expect that sound at low volumes. That is why the Marshall Class5 is looking attractive to me, even though it will not sound like a jubilee.

Its interesting to see all these manufactures coming out with small amps. Seems to be a new one every NAMM.

 

[billboogie]

i've been seeing a lot of smaller 2x12 lower wattage combos being used on stage lately.. by lots of different acts. i've also seen metal bands that carry large backlines as well.. but turn around and use iso cabs and di's set off stage. i think it all depends on what you need to get the job done. a 65 amps 50 watter through a 2x12 cab is pretty seriously loud when you're standing in front of it. some acts don't even put them in line of sight but hide them upstage and mike them facing away from the stage.
i'd seriously consider something like an ht 5 for a couple of reasons. slaving.. recording.. and low volume wankage. that and i have a bunch of 12bh7's so re-tubing wouldn't be a problem.. and i still have my hearing.

Imo, an HT-5 is a GREAT little amp and entirely the WRONG choice if something like a 65 Amp's sound is what is required. As far as the 50 watt amp being loud... That is what the volume knobs are for.

Z, as I said before it is a matter of taste. I can bring my DC-5 with the 6L6's (50 watts) with a 4x12 and play with the volume on 3 or I can open the amp up a little (w/the L84's) and let it breath. I prefer the amp breathing a little. Does'nt your amp sound different at a higher volume? I think it really all depends on where you like the gain stage, Pre or Post. So your little volume knob comment is kinda silly because you can use the different volume stages for different things. It's not just a volume pot but a gain control as well. But really again it's a matter of tase. No right/No wrong

 

[Zachman]

i've been seeing a lot of smaller 2x12 lower wattage combos being used on stage lately.. by lots of different acts. i've also seen metal bands that carry large backlines as well.. but turn around and use iso cabs and di's set off stage. i think it all depends on what you need to get the job done. a 65 amps 50 watter through a 2x12 cab is pretty seriously loud when you're standing in front of it. some acts don't even put them in line of sight but hide them upstage and mike them facing away from the stage.
i'd seriously consider something like an ht 5 for a couple of reasons. slaving.. recording.. and low volume wankage. that and i have a bunch of 12bh7's so re-tubing wouldn't be a problem.. and i still have my hearing.

Imo, an HT-5 is a GREAT little amp and entirely the WRONG choice if something like a 65 Amp's sound is what is required. As far as the 50 watt amp being loud... That is what the volume knobs are for.

Z, as I said before it is a matter of taste. I can bring my DC-5 with the 6L6's (50 watts) with a 4x12 and play with the volume on 3 or I can open the amp up a little (w/the L84's) and let it breath. I prefer the amp breathing a little. Does'nt your amp sound different at a higher volume? I think it really all depends on where you like the gain stage, Pre or Post. So your little volume knob comment is kinda silly because you can use the different volume stages for different things. It's not just a volume pot but a gain control as well. But really again it's a matter of tase. No right/No wrong

Nah... No worries. I either will load and re-amp, if there is an amp tone I want from a higher powered amp which happens as a result of power tube saturation-- thereby controlling the stage volume (Which so far, isn't found with smaller amps by comparison-- without a glaringly obvious sacrifice on my part). So, you now perhaps you'll have a better perspective of my "little volume knob comment" as to why it seems obvious to me and not so silly.

 

[billboogie]

It's all good. I understand where you were coming from. To each his own on where we find "our" sound. This has been an interesting thread.

 

[JTyson]

I was under the impression the smaller amps were aimed at recording, maybe that was a wrong assumption. With the drummer I used to play with a 10 watt amp would not cut it at all

How many and what kind of speakers were you using ?

I did not have one, I was using 2 MK III Boogies and 412's for each. I was just saying our drummer played really loud, and it took a bit of wattage to be heard over him.

 

[strungup]

........You'd be surprised how many times I've heard guys tell me the problem w/ my 180 Watt MKIII Coliseum to get the sounds they want, and when I get it at TV volumes they go into their "Oh I heard....." diatribe, which was just proven false.

* one thing to consider. A tube change on a ht-5 vs a tube change on your 100 watt amp. Over years of use your gonna save money.

Then I went on a rant-- Not aimed at him.

re: 100 Watt amps sounding bigger, I agree

no worries about a rant on my end my smallest amp is 30 watts but I mainly play my mark iv or roadster when people are sleeping because I get better lower volume sounds than I do with my 30 watt amp.