Treble booster + high gain amp to cut?

[tjnx]

Im looking to get either an eq or a Naga Viper mk2 in hopes of adding just a little more cut. Right now I like the Viper most but I will be playing a lot of high gain and 7 string stuff. Just curious if that could be an issue or if I should chase something else..

Eq wise I'm looking at either a typical boss/mxr 6, 7, or 10 band, the pteq, or maybe a used orange two stroke. I had an original Para EQ but sold it because it seemed to flatten the tone a bit or something, even bypassed. I know the new one has a lot of options but I'm a hesitant to drop that much again.

I also tend to prefer analog eqs over digital, some eqs tend to sound better than others. Any thoughts?

 

[fek]

I tried the Naga Viper for a bit years ago. Didn't work for what I wanted out of it. With your description, I would get the MXR 10 band. Inexpensive on the used market, lots of freq bands to play with, gain and volume sliders...

 

[RaceU4her]

i would check out that newer ibanez parametric pedal

 

[cardinal]

Another +1 for a PEQ pedal. Just dial in a high mid kick with your preference for the particular frequency and Q.

There should be plenty of transparent options. I had an old Ibanez and a VFE Rocket that was great. The Empress pedals seem to be good reviews.

 

[tjnx]

Yeah been thinking the 10 band or the pteq. I've got a gift card for GC but its not in stock at the moment. They've got some used ones but they're as expensive or more ?? than new.

Maybe I'll wait for that Ibanez pteq, it seems like a great deal

 

[Tone Monster]

My paraEQ is cold and clinical.

 

[tjnx]

My paraEQ is cold and clinical.

same didn't like my old one

 

[tjnx]

I tried the Naga Viper for a bit years ago. Didn't work for what I wanted out of it. With your description, I would get the MXR 10 band. Inexpensive on the used market, lots of freq bands to play with, gain and volume sliders...

would you mind describing a bit about what you didn't like about the viper? did it push too much sabbath or was it too nasal? In a way I kind of like the cocked wah effect I'm hearing in videos but it might be hit or miss.

that 10 band seems to work well with metal tones

 

[Zado]

Honestly TBs are very picky with amps, and tend to deliver the best thru dark, mellow, fat tube amps. Otherwise get an eq

 

[griff10672]

The Naga is silicon based ... traditionally a Treble Booster is Germanium ... that's what makes Rangemaster clones so expensive ...

but point being ... the Naga is going to sound and react different than a Germanium based TB ... I just fixed a footswitch on @skoora 's Naga ..

I put it on my board for a few hours .... I liked the Naga a lot .... but was very different than my Rangemaster clone ...best way to describe it is .. it eats the same way but the flavor is different

cocked wah ? and cut ? what exactly are you looking to achieve ?

I skimmed through the thread quick ...... but that new EQ where you can tune the " Q " for each frequency ( I think Ibanez makes it ) might be exactly what you're looking for .... as mentioned

 

[Bxlxaxkxe]

I used to hit a Diezel Einstein with a naga viper for some extra brightness and cut. Worked well I thought. Never tried it in a band context though not sure how much of a difference it would actually make

What was even better for me was the TB side of the drybell engine. I now have the unit 67 - thing is badass

 

[JakeusUrungus]

Treble boosters rule, and the Naga Viper is a killer pedal! That being said, I've tried a handful treble boosters into higher-gain amps with mixed results, and none with results that I would choose over a boost/overdrive or EQ.

To my ear, most of them sound either too mid focused or too compressed when pushing a lot of gain, but your ears are king for your sound!

 

[Devin]

Diamond Marquis is the only treble booster I've owned and I enjoyed it as a boost through high gain


Not enough to keep though; prefer a good OD

 

[CarlF]

Something like the Fulltone, Ranger. It has several adjustable frequencies at which the treble boost operates, from Rangemaster to darker, like Iommi-style treble booster.
In the late 90s Ritchie Blackmore was using a treble booster with a ENGL Savage amplifier

 

[GuitarVacation]

Something like the Fulltone, Ranger. It has several adjustable frequencies at which the treble boost operates, from Rangemaster to darker, like Iommi-style treble booster.
In the late 90s Ritchie Blackmore was using a treble booster with a ENGL Savage amplifier

I agree. The TB's with the knob that adjusts the input cap value (I think that's the usual method) can go from the full TB range, all the way to some great thick sounding fuzz tones.

For the OP: I would think of any kind of TB akin to a rangemaster etc. as adding a fuzz to your rig. That doesn't mean it won't get the desired effect, but the feel, attack, and plain old added gain will change things up. I think it changes a dirty amp in a very positive way, but if you're doing tight chugs and stuff, it may or may not be a positive change for you.

I've never played a Naga Viper, but my impression is it's kind of a TB with some other circuit refinement added to kind of do the whole TB>amp thing all in one. Anybody with hands on experience please correct me if I'm wrong.

My takeaway from just listening to clips is if you already have a good amp dirt sound going, a TB with the cap adjustment knob would be what I would choose.

One more consideration, if you're doing the 7 string thing, don't know if you're using any active PUs, but I'd definitely look into how a more vintage style TB will interact with the pickups you're using. In that respect the Naga Viper may have an input that is more catered to actives, buffers etc. I don't remember specifically, but the NV seems like a product CB would design to avoid some of the picky aspects of vintage fuzz designs.

There are no steadfast rules with this stuff. I recently played one of my active guitars with a germanium tone bender, full expecting it to sound like crap. Sounded great, no crazy active buffer artifacts to be had LOL.

Last, not to oversimplify and/or assume you haven't already tried this, but I think you could accomplish what you described with a tubesceamer or similar. Volume knob up, tone up to taste for the amount of high end you want to introduce, probably won't need much on the gain knob. It will also tighten some low end, which will give more perception of high end addition, and will for sure add some "cut through."

 

[GuitarVacation]

I've been using a Guptech Viper clone and love what it does. I set it conservatively and have it before my BD-2 boost and GE-7. The Viper adds a nice compressed treble cut and some warmth. What I like most is the touch sensitivity and tube feel it adds to my SS and digital heads.

View attachment 428339

Nice! Got some great versatility there with the dirt options and EQ. What's your opinion on running the NG clone into a dirty amp vs clean. I know you mentioned digital and SS options, but both can sound great IMO.

Love Guptech. They singlehandedly raised the status of Canada in spite of Molson Ice and Crown Royal.

 

[skoora]

would you mind describing a bit about what you didn't like about the viper? did it push too much sabbath or was it too nasal? In a way I kind of like the cocked wah effect I'm hearing in videos but it might be hit or miss.

that 10 band seems to work well with metal tones

What amp are you using?

What I like about the Viper and what makes it work more than it should across multiple amps, is the knob it has to change the frequency range of the where it boosts. You can thicken and warm up the boost by just turning it to the left a bit.
Vintage high gain on the orange channel of a recto and a Viper is a beautiful thing.

 

[EyesOfTheSouth!]

I love my Naga Viper. But to be honest, I can get VERY similar results by running a standard SD-1 (not Waza and not clone) with volume maxed, gain just cracked, and tone maxed out.

 

[tjnx]

Thanks for the responses so far, I'll try to add some context.

Signal Chain:
Jackson Loomis 7 string with active pickups > SD1 > Randall RD45H. I have an od808 I thought about throwing in there too mostly to apply another similar eq curve rather than to add more boost or distortion. I also have another humbucker 6 string, strat, and a tele.

The ideal solution:
Looking for a bit more clarity in a band / jam context without a PA where sounds can be loud, dark, and muddy. With the current setup I can find a good mix with the amp + sd1 eq but each time it needs something a little different and it takes a while. For example turning up a single control like mids, presence or tone doesn't usually cut it and I have to find a secret blend of all of the tonestacks which is not intuitive most of the time.

Ideally if I could just kick something on and adjust 1 or 2 pots that would be best. I know you can get surgical with eqs but in a jam or live context I want a a good result that is fast and simple, ie I just need to slide up a little 1.6k in most scenarios or just adjust the range on a TB.

Tradeoffs:
Naga or a treble boost:
The new Naga Viper mk2 has an attenuation knob that lets it play nice with buffers and higher output signals. Cut and clarity is more important to me than a being a perfect rangemaster clone.

I like that it could be a quick stomp on to get more cut but the concern lies in a few areas. First I don't want it to add too much fatness or fuzz on top of the high gain tones, I'm looking for more of its eq curve in that context. The other concern is that 95% of the time I play I'm in the house practicing and not jaming so would I keep it off most of the time as that tone could be a bit too harsh or nasal by itself.

I like what it could do for classic tones with the other guitars, but to be honest I don't play them as much. These classic tones are a pro though.

Eq Pedals:
Brian Wampler has a good video showing the applied eq effect differences between a tb, graphic eq, and a normal boost. Basically the smooth curve you get from a TB may not always get replicated by the band pass filters you get with a graphic or parametric eq.



Whether this matters or not in practice is yet to be determined, but this is part of the reason you could need to tweak a lot. If the high-pass esque curve of the Naga gets you there most of the time I'm all for it

Graphic vs Parametric
I had the Empress Para EQ for many years so I'm familiar with sweeping frequencies and adjusting q values (the wide or narrow area of effect). Its great for notching and if you know precisely what you're going for. But it requires some intuition when it comes to making musical adjustments. You will have the same q value range for all bands that may require a combination of moves to achieve a desired result.

If you wanted to replicate a high shelf for example that won't sound the same using two wide-q band pass filters.

The graphic eqs can come with musical q values that can be appealing. The tradeoff is that its not adjustable like the parametric. Parametrics can be just as musical but you can screw it up easily too. I often got a in a loop of tweaking with the paraEQ because I was always convinced I could squeeze a little bit more out of it. Eventually I just settled on one option that honestly could have been reproduced with a cheaper pedal.


Conclusion
Hope that helps a bit, mostly want to get a bit more clarity as quickly as possible while having a good sounding eq. This is getting long but I'll make another post of videos with some 'one-knob' options and some examples of what a good musical eq sounds like.

Looking at what Guitar Center has as I was kindly given a gift-card. The Ibanez PTEQ is the best bang for the buck but is perpetually out of stock there, but they do have new / used graphics and the Naga.

 

[tjnx]

cocked wah ? and cut ? what exactly are you looking to achieve ?

Hopefully answered your other questions above, but I'm referring to the nasal like tone that's often left over after a big boost so you can cut through the mix. The beginning of the tone in this video I'd describe as approaching a cocked wah sound.


@JakeusUrungus, @Devin, @GuitarVacation @D-Rock, @EyesOfTheSouth! - Regarding an OD being just as good if not better, that's what I was thinking might be a possibility... hmm something to think about. I don't want another pedal that winds up just sitting around because it does essentially the same thing as something else.

Thanks for commenting though, glad to hear from people who have had both as that was a concern.

I used to hit a Diezel Einstein with a naga viper for some extra brightness and cut. Worked well I thought. Never tried it in a band context though not sure how much of a difference it would actually make

What was even better for me was the TB side of the drybell engine. I now have the unit 67 - thing is badass

These are pretty cool! Never heard of them

I agree. The TB's with the knob that adjusts the input cap value (I think that's the usual method) can go from the full TB range, all the way to some great thick sounding fuzz tones.

For the OP: I would think of any kind of TB akin to a rangemaster etc. as adding a fuzz to your rig. That doesn't mean it won't get the desired effect, but the feel, attack, and plain old added gain will change things up. I think it changes a dirty amp in a very positive way, but if you're doing tight chugs and stuff, it may or may not be a positive change for you.

I've never played a Naga Viper, but my impression is it's kind of a TB with some other circuit refinement added to kind of do the whole TB>amp thing all in one. Anybody with hands on experience please correct me if I'm wrong.

My takeaway from just listening to clips is if you already have a good amp dirt sound going, a TB with the cap adjustment knob would be what I would choose.

One more consideration, if you're doing the 7 string thing, don't know if you're using any active PUs, but I'd definitely look into how a more vintage style TB will interact with the pickups you're using. In that respect the Naga Viper may have an input that is more catered to actives, buffers etc. I don't remember specifically, but the NV seems like a product CB would design to avoid some of the picky aspects of vintage fuzz designs.

There are no steadfast rules with this stuff. I recently played one of my active guitars with a germanium tone bender, full expecting it to sound like crap. Sounded great, no crazy active buffer artifacts to be had LOL.

Last, not to oversimplify and/or assume you haven't already tried this, but I think you could accomplish what you described with a tubesceamer or similar. Volume knob up, tone up to taste for the amount of high end you want to introduce, probably won't need much on the gain knob. It will also tighten some low end, which will give more perception of high end addition, and will for sure add some "cut through."

Thanks this is good input. If I go with the Viper I'm banking on the new controls providing a remedy for some of these issues. But yeah if I'm not going specifically for its tonal changes would something simple be better?