What do you guys like as a high gain JCM800?

[BABMusic]

Yep, as mentioned, Boss pedals are all buffered, and running buffer into buffer like that can cause issues. Not to mention Boss pedals are all instrument level, and if the loop on that amp is line level, that is another level issue that can cause problems. I always seem to get clipping and extra distortion when I use Boss pedals in loops. That is one reason I prefer to stick to the TC Electronic TonePrint pedals.

I dont like using any digital pedal that digitizes the signal without analog dry through in the loop. I find they always mess with the dynamics.

This is very interesting and new to me because I wrongly believed that the Friedman loop would not have any issues with Boss pedals. I noticed that I can't hear tone loss if I'm using just one Boss pedal in the loop, but it's completely different with all 5 of them. I guess this means I'll be not using my pedals most of the time. I don't use them very much as it is, other than the GE7 which I already mentioned.

 

[griff10672]

This is very interesting and new to me because I wrongly believed that the Friedman loop would not have any issues with Boss pedals. I noticed that I can't hear tone loss if I'm using just one Boss pedal in the loop, but it's completely different with all 5 of them. I guess this means I'll be not using my pedals most of the time. I don't use them very much as it is, other than the GE7 which I already mentioned.

or keep one Boss .... if you're running enough cable you'll want at least one buffer ... and I would just start looking for true by pass options of the pedals you have ...

and Friedmans have the Metro Style Loop as far as I know so Boss pedals will work fine in it .... it's all the buffers ....

 

[tjnx]

This is very interesting and new to me because I wrongly believed that the Friedman loop would not have any issues with Boss pedals. I noticed that I can't hear tone loss if I'm using just one Boss pedal in the loop, but it's completely different with all 5 of them. I guess this means I'll be not using my pedals most of the time. I don't use them very much as it is, other than the GE7 which I already mentioned.

Have you tried them one at a time to see if one may be worse than another? Also how long are your cables & what brand? You could improve it with shorter or lower capacitance cables and a buffer. I have a buffer at the start of the chain, my other buffer had the most impact when I put it after the last pedal in my fx loop.

Up to you but I'd put the tuner right after your guitar. The TU2s buffer is weak in comparison but its interesting that it works with just one.

 

[BABMusic]

I feel like I'm a bit stuck in the early 2000s in regards to gear. Thanks all for educating me on many things I was not aware of. All those Boss pedals are from the 1990s or early 2000s (except for the DD2, which I bought off Ebay in 2000). I don't know if my GE7 is one that requires a different adaptor. I'm going to look into that.

Just for comparison with my crappy Iphone audio, you can hear just how much volume difference and tone suck had been happening. Good Lord, I had no idea this amp could sound so much better if I just ditched the pedals.

 

[BABMusic]

Have you tried them one at a time to see if one may be worse than another? Also how long are your cables & what brand? You could improve it with shorter or lower capacitance cables and a buffer. I have a buffer at the start of the chain, my other buffer had the most impact when I put it after the last pedal in my fx loop.

Up to you but I'd put the tuner right after your guitar. The TU2s buffer is weak in comparison but its interesting that it works with just one.

Not yet but I will. I only tried the GE7 so far, and it seems okay just by itself. I'm going to have to go through tomorrow one by one. Thanks for the tip on the buffer.

 

[BABMusic]

They do if you set them right. Try lowering your treble to about 5 and bring the bass up a bit, like 2 or 3. Throw a boost in front and let us know how it works for you. The problem is they get over boosted and too tight and compressed so the settings need adjustment.

Forgot to answer this, you are correct. I tried this and it sounds great if you lower the treble.

 

[tjnx]

Not yet but I will. I only tried the GE7 so far, and it seems okay just by itself. I'm going to have to go through tomorrow one by one. Thanks for the tip on the buffer.

No problem, look into a buffered 'interface' or multi-channel buffer if you go that route. The most important spot would be right after your guitar with a short or low capacitance cable, then you can route the out to the amp and your loop as well. I plan on getting something like this eventually

Ideally you want 1-Mohm Input/ < 100-ohm output impedance on the buffer and the empress is 510 output. It may work fine but just as an example.. there are many options

https://saturnworkspedals.com/product/buffer/ (I would do the dual with fx loop)
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EmpBuff--empress-buffer-i-o-interface-pedal
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BonaFide--tc-electronic-bonafide-mini-buffer-pedal < cheap single channel

 

[Shask]

If that's an older GE7 that requires an ACA adapter, and not a PSA like the newer ones, it may not be getting enough voltage. IIRC, the ACAs were unregulated and put out 12vdc. That could explain why the light is not as bright as the others.

But yeah, all those buffers are going to change the tone.

Yeah, my GE-7 is an old ACA version. I modded it many years ago to run off the newer adapters. It is an easy mod.

 

[Shask]

This is very interesting and new to me because I wrongly believed that the Friedman loop would not have any issues with Boss pedals. I noticed that I can't hear tone loss if I'm using just one Boss pedal in the loop, but it's completely different with all 5 of them. I guess this means I'll be not using my pedals most of the time. I don't use them very much as it is, other than the GE7 which I already mentioned.

You could also get one of those pedal loop switch pedals, where it has 5-7 switches, and you put each pedal in a loop. That will allow you to only put the pedal in the signal when you are using it.

 

[Frehley12]

You want a JCM800 with more gain? Get one and put in a Legendary Tones Mr. Scary Mod.

JCM800 Kerry King (2203KK)
Marshall JVM

Landry LS100 G3/LS50 G3 or Lexi
Morris Sirrom

 

[BABMusic]

You could also get one of those pedal loop switch pedals, where it has 5-7 switches, and you put each pedal in a loop. That will allow you to only put the pedal in the signal when you are using it.

Maybe I shouldn't say this, but I didn't even know such thing exists. Thanks

 

[Shask]

I feel like I'm a bit stuck in the early 2000s in regards to gear. Thanks all for educating me on many things I was not aware of. All those Boss pedals are from the 1990s or early 2000s (except for the DD2, which I bought off Ebay in 2000). I don't know if my GE7 is one that requires a different adaptor. I'm going to look into that.

Just for comparison with my crappy Iphone audio, you can hear just how much volume difference and tone suck had been happening. Good Lord, I had no idea this amp could sound so much better if I just ditched the pedals.

Not only volume, but it sounds more punchy without the pedals. It sounds more dynamic like the sound jumps out at you more when you attack the strings.

I am super picky about the dynamics like this. I dont like any digital multieffects in my loop, 4CM, or any of that stuff. I find they compress and take away some of that punch.

All of your pedals are analog, so they aren't messing with the tone as bad as digital changes, but all the buffers can still be a problem.

 

[ChurchHill]

Maybe I shouldn't say this, but I didn't even know such thing exists. Thanks

No worries, we're all learning as we go!

 

[BABMusic]

You want a JCM800 with more gain? Get one and put in a Legendary Tones Mr. Scary Mod.

JCM800 Kerry King (2203KK)
Marshall JVM

Landry LS100 G3/LS50 G3 or Lexi
Morris Sirrom

This thread has taken a lot of different directions since I first posted it. I thought I initially wanted a high gain JCM800 tone, but I've slowly learned that I hot rodded Plexi-ish thing is more to my liking. I have a JCM800 mod switch on my Friedman, but I don't use it as much as the Plexi mode. Its not exactly an 800 tone, but it's close.

Not only volume, but it sounds more punchy without the pedals. It sounds more dynamic like the sound jumps out at you more when you attack the strings.

I am super picky about the dynamics like this. I dont like any digital multieffects in my loop, 4CM, or any of that stuff. I find they compress and take away some of that punch.

All of your pedals are analog, so they aren't messing with the tone as bad as digital changes, but all the buffers can still be a problem.

Yes, exactly. It doesn't really come through with the Iphone audio, but there's just much more fullness in the tone and the thinness / honky sound goes away.

 

[Shask]

Yes, exactly. It doesn't really come through with the Iphone audio, but there's just much more fullness in the tone and the thinness / honky sound goes away.

Yeah, it is always hard to demonstrate in a clip. I always talk with people about the dynamics of different digital modelers, and how some feel more dynamic than others, and some people dont understand what that means because they sound the same to them. It is hard to explain that it is more of a feel thing than a hear thing. However, it is something that stands out to me because I like that very percussive attack, and I can tell when something takes that away.

Many people say they dont hear any changes when they put a digital multieffects in the loop. Many times I dont hear a difference, but I can feel a difference. It is less punchy, and less sensitive to me attacking the strings.

For regular pedals I try to pick only true bypass, and analog dry through for the loop. All of your pedals are analog dry through, but not true bypass. I dont mind the buffers as much in front of the amp. I would move the tuner before the amp.

 

[alund]

You could also get one of those pedal loop switch pedals, where it has 5-7 switches, and you put each pedal in a loop. That will allow you to only put the pedal in the signal when you are using it.

Like the voodoo labs PX8? Each one of the pedal loops is buffered; I’ve never noticed a problem with tone and this unit. Are you guys saying that buffers (any buffers) can suck tone?

 

[Shask]

Like the voodoo labs PX8? Each one of the pedal loops is buffered; I’ve never noticed a problem with tone and this unit. Are you guys saying that buffers (any buffers) can suck tone?

Yeah, that is an example of one of these types of units.

I am not saying all buffers are bad. Sometimes you want a buffer, especially before the amp. For example, I have been making ToneX captures lately, and I find putting a buffer (bypassed Klon clone) in front of the amp seems to help the captures come out better.

The problem is when you have multiple buffers back-to-back, or some buffers just suck more than others. Sometimes you will notice it, and sometimes you wont. For example, the basic Boss SD-1 in front of the amp, I notice it takes something away when it is turned off in front of your amp, so I tend to not keep it in line if I am not using it. Other buffers, like say the TC Electronic Hall of Fame Reverb buffer, can make it sound better because it is a nice line driver to send a strong signal back to the return of an effects loop.

 

[alund]

Yeah, that is an example of one of these types of units.

I am not saying all buffers are bad. Sometimes you want a buffer, especially before the amp. For example, I have been making ToneX captures lately, and I find putting a buffer (bypassed Klon clone) in front of the amp seems to help the captures come out better.

The problem is when you have multiple buffers back-to-back, or some buffers just suck more than others. Sometimes you will notice it, and sometimes you wont. For example, the basic Boss SD-1 in front of the amp, I notice it takes something away when it is turned off in front of your amp, so I tend to not keep it in line if I am not using it. Other buffers, like say the TC Electronic Hall of Fame Reverb buffer, can make it sound better because it is a nice line driver to send a strong signal back to the return of an effects loop.

Good info.

 

[LPMojoGL]

How did I miss this old thread?

I've been thru a mess of em.
Jcm800 with a pedal is the answer, but she's an unruly beast, requiring control. Nothing quite gets that sound.
Hot Mod in a JCM800 ain't a bad solution, but is a compromise for other tones that the JCM can do.

2 amps, requiring no pedals, tie for closest I've experienced:
@RedPlated Ground Zero mods
Wizard Modern Classic
Can't say enough about Jeremy's mods. Any mod is a compromise on the original tone, but he cracked the code on getting what you want, that is as punchy, if not moreso, and super close to that sound.
The SS100 he modded is why I sold my fav JCM.
Wizard MC sounds like a good JCM800, with more. More gain, punch, clarity...not too refined in the slightest, like some Friedman amps.

Friedman is an obvious answer, but is a more refined tone. Smallbox and Phi X were pretty tasty. So good at loud band volume.

Splawn is also up there. A buddy's Comp50 is pretty great. Street Rod I had, too.

A DSL50 I had is up there, but any DSL I've tried since has had issues.

Oddball choice, but, the crunch sound on the EVH Iconic EL34 is worth a look.

 

[Humbucking]

MGL 100.