Treble booster + high gain amp to cut?

[D-Rock]

Sure the Viper has bite being a TB, but it is also fat and thick sounding at the same time.
The pedal doesn't just "boost treble" it adds gnarly touch sensitivity & harmonics, gain and girth. All of which can either be taken to oblivion or just sprinkled in. It can act as either a lead boost or fuzz pedal depending on your settings. There's a lot of sounds within those 3 dials. The lastest Naga has 4 I believe.

 

[tjnx]

Thanks for the responses so far, I'll try to add some context.

Signal Chain:
Jackson Loomis 7 string with active pickups > SD1 > Randall RD45H. I have an od808 I thought about throwing in there too mostly to apply another similar eq curve rather than to add more boost or distortion. I also have another humbucker 6 string, strat, and a tele.

The ideal solution:
Looking for a bit more clarity in a band / jam context without a PA where sounds can be loud, dark, and muddy. With the current setup I can find a good mix with the amp + sd1 eq but each time it needs something a little different and it takes a while. For example turning up a single control like mids, presence or tone doesn't usually cut it and I have to find a secret blend of all of the tonestacks which is not intuitive most of the time.

Ideally if I could just kick something on and adjust 1 or 2 pots that would be best. I know you can get surgical with eqs but in a jam or live context I want a a good result that is fast and simple, ie I just need to slide up a little 1.6k in most scenarios or just adjust the range on a TB.

Tradeoffs:
Naga or a treble boost:
The new Naga Viper mk2 has an attenuation knob that lets it play nice with buffers and higher output signals. Cut and clarity is more important to me than a being a perfect rangemaster clone.

I like that it could be a quick stomp on to get more cut but the concern lies in a few areas. First I don't want it to add too much fatness or fuzz on top of the high gain tones, I'm looking for more of its eq curve in that context. The other concern is that 95% of the time I play I'm in the house practicing and not jaming so would I keep it off most of the time as that tone could be a bit too harsh or nasal by itself.

I like what it could do for classic tones with the other guitars, but to be honest I don't play them as much. These classic tones are a pro though.

Eq Pedals:
Brian Wampler has a good video showing the applied eq effect differences between a tb, graphic eq, and a normal boost. Basically the smooth curve you get from a TB may not always get replicated by the band pass filters you get with a graphic or parametric eq.



Whether this matters or not in practice is yet to be determined, but this is part of the reason you could need to tweak a lot. If the high-pass esque curve of the Naga gets you there most of the time I'm all for it

Graphic vs Parametric
I had the Empress Para EQ for many years so I'm familiar with sweeping frequencies and adjusting q values (the wide or narrow area of effect). Its great for notching and if you know precisely what you're going for. But it requires some intuition when it comes to making musical adjustments. You will have the same q value range for all bands that may require a combination of moves to achieve a desired result.

If you wanted to replicate a high shelf for example that won't sound the same using two wide-q band pass filters.

The graphic eqs can come with musical q values that can be appealing. The tradeoff is that its not adjustable like the parametric. Parametrics can be just as musical but you can screw it up easily too. I often got a in a loop of tweaking with the paraEQ because I was always convinced I could squeeze a little bit more out of it. Eventually I just settled on one option that honestly could have been reproduced with a cheaper pedal.


Conclusion
Hope that helps a bit, mostly want to get a bit more clarity as quickly as possible while having a good sounding eq. This is getting long but I'll make another post of videos with some 'one-knob' options and some examples of what a good musical eq sounds like.

Looking at what Guitar Center has as I was kindly given a gift-card. The Ibanez PTEQ is the best bang for the buck but is perpetually out of stock there, but they do have new / used graphics and the Naga.

 

[tjnx]

cocked wah ? and cut ? what exactly are you looking to achieve ?

Hopefully answered your other questions above, but I'm referring to the nasal like tone that's often left over after a big boost so you can cut through the mix. The beginning of the tone in this video I'd describe as approaching a cocked wah sound.


@JakeusUrungus, @Devin, @GuitarVacation @D-Rock, @EyesOfTheSouth! - Regarding an OD being just as good if not better, that's what I was thinking might be a possibility... hmm something to think about. I don't want another pedal that winds up just sitting around because it does essentially the same thing as something else.

Thanks for commenting though, glad to hear from people who have had both as that was a concern.

I used to hit a Diezel Einstein with a naga viper for some extra brightness and cut. Worked well I thought. Never tried it in a band context though not sure how much of a difference it would actually make

What was even better for me was the TB side of the drybell engine. I now have the unit 67 - thing is badass

These are pretty cool! Never heard of them

I agree. The TB's with the knob that adjusts the input cap value (I think that's the usual method) can go from the full TB range, all the way to some great thick sounding fuzz tones.

For the OP: I would think of any kind of TB akin to a rangemaster etc. as adding a fuzz to your rig. That doesn't mean it won't get the desired effect, but the feel, attack, and plain old added gain will change things up. I think it changes a dirty amp in a very positive way, but if you're doing tight chugs and stuff, it may or may not be a positive change for you.

I've never played a Naga Viper, but my impression is it's kind of a TB with some other circuit refinement added to kind of do the whole TB>amp thing all in one. Anybody with hands on experience please correct me if I'm wrong.

My takeaway from just listening to clips is if you already have a good amp dirt sound going, a TB with the cap adjustment knob would be what I would choose.

One more consideration, if you're doing the 7 string thing, don't know if you're using any active PUs, but I'd definitely look into how a more vintage style TB will interact with the pickups you're using. In that respect the Naga Viper may have an input that is more catered to actives, buffers etc. I don't remember specifically, but the NV seems like a product CB would design to avoid some of the picky aspects of vintage fuzz designs.

There are no steadfast rules with this stuff. I recently played one of my active guitars with a germanium tone bender, full expecting it to sound like crap. Sounded great, no crazy active buffer artifacts to be had LOL.

Last, not to oversimplify and/or assume you haven't already tried this, but I think you could accomplish what you described with a tubesceamer or similar. Volume knob up, tone up to taste for the amount of high end you want to introduce, probably won't need much on the gain knob. It will also tighten some low end, which will give more perception of high end addition, and will for sure add some "cut through."

Thanks this is good input. If I go with the Viper I'm banking on the new controls providing a remedy for some of these issues. But yeah if I'm not going specifically for its tonal changes would something simple be better?

 

[tjnx]

Here's a couple 1 or 2 knob options I was looking at.

JHS Haunting Mids - Single channel parametric, more expensive than the pteq but I kinda like how it limits options. Used for mid control


Revv Tilt Boost - Tilt Eq meant to quickly brighten or darken your overall tone


I think the Orange Two Stroke sounds good in that it lets more of the amps voice through vs a ti boost. Comparison here:

 

[skoora]

If the Randall has a loop you might want to just use a graphic EQ in the loop. Small changes on the sliders will have a big impact on the sound vs. in front of the gain stages. Some people use two EQ’s. One in front to shave off lows and then in the loop for final shaping.
Also something to consider is the Randall is not the right amp for what you’re trying to achieve.

 

[tjnx]

If the Randall has a loop you might want to just use a graphic EQ in the loop. Small changes on the sliders will have a big impact on the sound vs. in front of the gain stages. Some people use two EQ’s. One in front to shave off lows and then in the loop for final shaping.
Also something to consider is the Randall is not the right amp for what you’re trying to achieve.

Yeah I may just go for a graphic. What do you mean its not the right amp? For the most part it does a lot well, just want it a bit brighter. Not going for a classic Marshall sound if thats what you mean

 

[skoora]

Yeah I may just go for a graphic. What do you mean its not the right amp? For the most part it does a lot well, just want it a bit brighter. Not going for a classic Marshall sound if thats what you mean

No, I just meant that sometimes people tie themselves in knots trying to get an amp to work with external devices, spear swaps and guitar/pickup changes and it’s really that they need to find an amp that’s already 95% there to what they need.
If the low end is right, as is, a graphic in the loop with some little bumps in the upper bands could make a serious difference. My Tremoverb sounds like a completely different amp with some bumps around 1-2K on an EQ.

 

[tjnx]

No, I just meant that sometimes people tie themselves in knots trying to get an amp to work with external devices, spear swaps and guitar/pickup changes and it’s really that they need to find an amp that’s already 95% there to what they need.
If the low end is right as is a graphic in the loop with some little bumps in the upper bands could make a serious difference. My Tremoverb sounds like a completely different amp with some bumps around 1-2K on an EQ.

Got ya, 100% agree.

 

[GuitarVacation]

Hopefully answered your other questions above, but I'm referring to the nasal like tone that's often left over after a big boost so you can cut through the mix. The beginning of the tone in this video I'd describe as approaching a cocked wah sound.


@JakeusUrungus, @Devin, @GuitarVacation @D-Rock, @EyesOfTheSouth! - Regarding an OD being just as good if not better, that's what I was thinking might be a possibility... hmm something to think about. I don't want another pedal that winds up just sitting around because it does essentially the same thing as something else.

Thanks for commenting though, glad to hear from people who have had both as that was a concern.


These are pretty cool! Never heard of them


Thanks this is good input. If I go with the Viper I'm banking on the new controls providing a remedy for some of these issues. But yeah if I'm not going specifically for its tonal changes would something simple be better?

IMO a Naga Viper or old school treble booster will definitely change some tone feel, but I hesitate to tell you to avoid trying either because you might love what is added haha.

This might be a good time to buy some of the super cheap Chinese clones (pretty sure you can find a really cheap rangemaster and tube screamer, not sure about the Naga Viper, my hit used guitar center for that one).

With a relatively small investment, you can try each and know for sure. Then if you find the type of pedal/circuit that give you the “hell yeah, that’s it!” reaction, you can always step up to a higher quality brand/version. I don’t think any of those options are gonna be super expensive even taking a step up from a Chinese clones.

That’s actually how I got into the Rat years ago. I thought the Rat sounded bad in clips I watched (it is a pedal that is easy to make sound bad haha). I ended up with a cheap MIC rat clone, and realized if the filter knob is way up on the bass side, it totally fit what I go for.

That Guptech Naga Viper clone looks like it costs $100 US. Guptech is good quality, made in Canada. Probably small tariff addition right now. But if the Guptech clone is available used on reverb or used guitar center, now we’re getting in the cheap zone haha.

 

[anomaly]

What cab and speakers are you using?

 

[bubbastain]

I have been using a PLX Bion Boost for several years now. It’s supposedly based on the Rangemaster TB, but I have no idea how much or if it has silicone or germanium thingys. It is my favorite boost though and has a lot of range and tones. Here is a clip I did going through all the knobs.

 

[tjnx]

IMO a Naga Viper or old school treble booster will definitely change some tone feel, but I hesitate to tell you to avoid trying either because you might love what is added haha.

This might be a good time to buy some of the super cheap Chinese clones (pretty sure you can find a really cheap rangemaster and tube screamer, not sure about the Naga Viper, my hit used guitar center for that one).

With a relatively small investment, you can try each and know for sure. Then if you find the type of pedal/circuit that give you the “hell yeah, that’s it!” reaction, you can always step up to a higher quality brand/version. I don’t think any of those options are gonna be super expensive even taking a step up from a Chinese clones.

That’s actually how I got into the Rat years ago. I thought the Rat sounded bad in clips I watched (it is a pedal that is easy to make sound bad haha). I ended up with a cheap MIC rat clone, and realized if the filter knob is way up on the bass side, it totally fit what I go for.

That Guptech Naga Viper clone looks like it costs $100 US. Guptech is good quality, made in Canada. Probably small tariff addition right now. But if the Guptech clone is available used on reverb or used guitar center, now we’re getting in the cheap zone haha.

Yes that is a good idea too, I'll keep an eye out for the Guptech. Does the feel bother you?

I was thinking of getting some cheaper used eq pedals to try but then I thought maybe grab a 31 band eq to bring so I could quickly pick which frequencies work. I assume I could find one that takes instrument level signals.. like a cheap art or behringer or something

Even better though, I just realized I can go guitar > interface > reaper > reamp box > head and try a bunch of these eq moves in the software. I think its portable enough I could bring it to our next jam but I'll try it out at home for now vs some backing tracks.

What cab and speakers are you using?

Uberkab - v30s & t75s in an x pattern. The amp is really close with the sd1 tone all the way up, maybe another sd1? Just needs a little more push

I have been using a PLX Bion Boost for several years now. It’s supposedly based on the Rangemaster TB, but I have no idea how much or if it has silicone or germanium thingys. It is my favorite boost though and has a lot of range and tones. Here is a clip I did going through all the knobs.

Yes! This is the kind of demo I was looking for, sounds great man thanks for posting it up. That is a good option and it did what I was expecting a rangemaster-ish clone to do.

 

[tjnx]

Found this blog visualizing the waveform effects of different pedals, here's the sd1. Looks like tone at max increases 1.5k with a wide q. I messed around a bit with a 12 band on some recordings and 1.5, 2.5 and 3k ish added the most poke.
https://guitarpedalsvisualized.wordpress.com/2022/03/18/boss-sd-1/

The frequencies in this chart seem to be helping the most

 

[JLR]

I really like my Viper but I got a noisy one. The noise floor prevents me from gigging with it. Some of the rooms I play I question the wall voltage.

 

[GuitarVacation]

Yes that is a good idea too, I'll keep an eye out for the Guptech. Does the feel bother you?

I was thinking of getting some cheaper used eq pedals to try but then I thought maybe grab a 31 band eq to bring so I could quickly pick which frequencies work. I assume I could find one that takes instrument level signals.. like a cheap art or behringer or something

Even better though, I just realized I can go guitar > interface > reaper > reamp box > head and try a bunch of these eq moves in the software. I think its portable enough I could bring it to our next jam but I'll try it out at home for now vs some backing tracks.


Uberkab - v30s & t75s in an x pattern. The amp is really close with the sd1 tone all the way up, maybe another sd1? Just needs a little more push


Yes! This is the kind of demo I was looking for, sounds great man thanks for posting it up. That is a good option and it did what I was expecting a rangemaster-ish clone to do.

You have the right idea, you can definitely use reamping etc to your advantage.

I love the feel of the right into fuzz into a dirty amp. I don't play the chug stuff much anymore, but I was super into it when I was a younger fella. Back then, I was going for tightness and attack, so a lot of fuzzes probably wouldn't have been ideal. But, back then my tone sucked LOL so what you're doing by trying different options puts you way ahead of me as a young metalhead.

 

[tjnx]

You have the right idea, you can definitely use reamping etc to your advantage.

I love the feel of the right into fuzz into a dirty amp. I don't play the chug stuff much anymore, but I was super into it when I was a younger fella. Back then, I was going for tightness and attack, so a lot of fuzzes probably wouldn't have been ideal. But, back then my tone sucked LOL so what you're doing by trying different options puts you way ahead of me as a young metalhead.

For what is worth, the reamping fixed it. I recreated all the pedals using plugins. Adding 1.5k using the sd1 and dropping 3db of 500hz with a graphic was the ticket. The amp has a lot of 500, once that's gone the highs are there.

I also simulated the Naga using a high pass filter at ~2.6k and tried both adjusting the filter down and blending the unaffected signal in. I'm not quite sure if that's a 100% match of the circuit but it sounded the same. Its a cool sound and I think a Naga or clone like the PLX will work great.

+1.5k, -500hz using a graphic sounded best with the 'Naga' in a close 2nd, 3rd was a high shelf, and 4th was +1.5k, +8k on a 31 band. Haven't tested in the loop yet but I'm happy with it for now going in front of the od.

The tilt eq is sensitive to the center frequency. It does easily add brightness and is quite convenient but if the center is too high the range on the knob of acceptable frequencies gets really tiny so you can easily over / under shoot it when turning. This is the same problem with a parametric, if it has a wide range range of frequency coverage it could be hard to replicate your goldilocks zone on the pots. There is a difference between 500hz and 630hz tonewise so I think that's part of the reason I struggled to find the right combo with the ParaEq. The Tilt Boost could be really nice and easy for clean and overdriven tones or a leaner mix.

Gonna bring the laptop and reamp live next time but I think its the way to go to figure this out.

 

[lol]

Had a naga viper. Sounded ok but jeez the noise was intolerable. Fulltone Ranger is a hell of a treble booster and one I would recommend.

Treble booster is my all time favorite guitar effect. But I play bass now so...

 

[stratjacket]

I recently picked up the Airis Mid Screamer off the classifieds here and really loving it.
It’s basically a boost with a Mid adjustment knob that sweeps from 1400hz to 2700hz and then another knob for + or -
So you chose the mid freq you want and then either cut it or boost it.

I have 11 amps and with a quick adjustment of my toe turning the Freq knob, I can find the sweet spot in different amps easily.

Skip to 4:25 for isolated guitar and knob turning

 

[tjnx]

Had a naga viper. Sounded ok but jeez the noise was intolerable. Fulltone Ranger is a hell of a treble booster and one I would recommend.

Treble booster is my all time favorite guitar effect. But I play bass now so...

Yeah thats kind of an issue. The new one has the attenuation pot so that solves the pedal order / buffer issues but I don't want it noisy. I found a site that has breadboard schematics for it and I thought about doing different tone stacks on a knob, that looks like what the Ranger is doing which is pretty cool.

Some people seem to have noise issues and others don't so idk whats up

I recently picked up the Airis Mid Screamer off the classifieds here and really loving it.
It’s basically a boost with a Mid adjustment knob that sweeps from 1400hz to 2700hz and then another knob for + or -
So you chose the mid freq you want and then either cut it or boost it.

I have 11 amps and with a quick adjustment of my toe turning the Freq knob, I can find the sweet spot in different amps easily.

Skip to 4:25 for isolated guitar and knob turning

That looks like a good option to have on an od. I almost picked up a savage drive a while ago. I'll probably grab a 31 band to help diagnose when we get together to play but ideally land on something simple like this.

 

[lol]

Yeah thats kind of an issue. The new one has the attenuation pot so that solves the pedal order / buffer issues but I don't want it noisy. I found a site that has breadboard schematics for it and I thought about doing different tone stacks on a knob, that looks like what the Ranger is doing which is pretty cool.

Some people seem to have noise issues and others don't so idk whats up

I noticed that too. Some people didn't seem to deal with a noise issue but others have. Mine was very noisy. It sounded good, but I could not get past the noise. The fulltone ranger was significantly quieter, and the 5 way tone stack was super useful. It also sounded much better than the viper in my opinion. The first and last position though I didn't find all that useful. But I am sure someone else would.

I also tend to prefer germanium transistors over silicon in treble boosters. The only silicon transistor treble booster I enjoyed quite a bit was a Pigeon FX hornby Skewes treble booster. Catalinbread actually made a clone of it for a bit too.