treble,where's your set on what amp

[JakeAC5253]

i only ask this question because mr fja says that we are all kids playing in our rooms if we turn the treble down because we need all the treble to cut through a live band sound ,so if we turn the treble down we must not be professional players,...personally i play what i build and i turn my treble down at rehearsal hall and at live gigs,i like having more than i need,and almost always dont need more to cut through,just thought it was a ridiculous thing to say and you guys all proved that it was,one out of 13 plays with the treble cranked ,..thanks guys!

You sir design build and modify amps and you still haven't learned a goddamn thing about audio have you? Or do you just say that you do in order to lend credibility to your ridiculous right-field misconceptions? Don't you know that the design is more important to the output signal than the direction of the knob? Don't you know that most of the sound shaping in an amplifier is passive i.e. not controllable by the user? The knobs allow you an after-the-fact way of setting boundaries for the most part. What type of speakers are we talking about? What volume are we talking about? What practice space are we talking about? What boosts if any? These all contribute to the dilemma, yet you do not ask any of this, only the direction a single knob. In hopes to prove that your generalized theory about something that can't possibly be generalized is true beyond doubt?

 

[9ball]

i dunno anything about what any body else is playing - i know for my set up - the treble and presence are turned down to compensate for an overly high gain amp when it's cranked.
you can't make any of these kind of sweeping generalization statements because everyone plays different stuff man.
it just all depends...
you just have to be there and here something and dial it in.

 

[Motorpud]

What a goofy ass question What are you hoping to gain by trying to call Jerry out on something as silly as how much treble other people use? He's one of the best at what he does, you might be better served to take some notes.....

 

[Shark Diver]

SLO 3.5. Presence 2.

 

[petejt]

I think I smell a troll....yet already let my foot step into the shitpat...

 

[Greazygeo]

i dunno anything about what any body else is playing - i know for my set up - the treble and presence are turned down to compensate for an overly high gain amp when it's cranked.

Really?

On the 5150, I also had the pres, mid and treble cranked with bass/ resonance pretty low. I don't see how you can do it any other way. Once you get the power section distorting, the highs are the first thing to go away and turns into a serious mudfest.

 

[kirk]

i only ask this question because mr fja says that we are all kids playing in our rooms if we turn the treble down because we need all the treble to cut through a live band sound ,so if we turn the treble down we must not be professional players,...personally i play what i build and i turn my treble down at rehearsal hall and at live gigs,i like having more than i need,and almost always dont need more to cut through,just thought it was a ridiculous thing to say and you guys all proved that it was,one out of 13 plays with the treble cranked ,..thanks guys!

You sir design build and modify amps and you still haven't learned a goddamn thing about audio have you? Or do you just say that you do in order to lend credibility to your ridiculous right-field misconceptions? Don't you know that the design is more important to the output signal than the direction of the knob? Don't you know that most of the sound shaping in an amplifier is passive i.e. not controllable by the user? The knobs allow you an after-the-fact way of setting boundaries for the most part. What type of speakers are we talking about? What volume are we talking about? What practice space are we talking about? What boosts if any? These all contribute to the dilemma, yet you do not ask any of this, only the direction a single knob. In hopes to prove that your generalized theory about something that can't possibly be generalized is true beyond doubt?

this actually is about peamp tube covers ,he(and a few others)say that removing them gives you some high end..(dont want to restart the cover topic here).my point was why bother with the covers when most of the time we turn the hi end down ,and this is genralization bro i appreciate the passion in your words,and all your facts ,but if you have all your high end cranked at a club and im in the audience and its way too much...im leaving,so are alot of other people,here's an example,my wife and i went and saw sean carney one night down town,great player great singer but his high end was so loud my wife felt ill so we had to leave ,we stopped at a late night coffe shop on the way home and there was our friends and a few other folks from the show,when we ask why they were all there they said the sound was killing them,the hi was too hi,...now this was a small place so you cant blame a sound guy cause the amps were not mic'd and getting mad because i asked a genralization question ,well ok im sorry,but you dont have to participate,not a mis-conception sir ,i shape my sound so that i can have more hi's than i need same goes for mid and bass ,then yes i dial it in where i think it sounds good,but what sounds good to me might not sound good to you ,its an opinion,most people at shows are not techs,audio philes,or musicians,they are just people they dont know why it sounds that way,they just know what sounds good to them
so my question wasnt meant to offend you or open a door at my credibility(i have plenty of references for that if you'd like them)i'm not here to drum up business anyway,i came to help others if i can.jerry is a great tech from what i hear and i'm not questioning his credibility either,its all preference ,speculation and opinion
there are alot of techs on here already,and this was not meant as a technical question but as a general one,you can get mad at me because i asked it,but why bother,i was more or less asking others opinions and preference on where they set the treble,i'm sorry i offended you

 

[kirk]

What a goofy ass question What are you hoping to gain by trying to call Jerry out on something as silly as how much treble other people use? He's one of the best at what he does, you might be better served to take some notes.....

i am taking notes and dont take offense, i will not "call jerry out" i just dont agree with something,its america i'm allowed to disagree.
jerry is one of the best and this isnt about questioning his credibility,i was just proving that it is all a matter of taste not a set standard we all must follow.
This whole arguement is a "call out" about preamp tube covers,i was trying to prove a point about high end thats all

 

[petejt]

Use some paragraphs at least, please!

 

[petejt]

I know it's just a general question, and CAN be answered simply- but the matter of the fact is that there are MANY variables into why an EQ control knob is set where it is. Different amplifiers have different EQ ranges for each treble, midrange, bass, and presence control knob. You crank the treble knob to 10 (or 5 o'clock) on two different amps and get two completely different sounds. Just because one musician might crank the treble on their amp, does not mean it would sound bright, harsh, and so piercing as to cause pain in the audience. Their amp might just inherently dark, so the treble needs to be turned right up to overcome that.

A large factor is if the tone stack is located prior to the preamp valves (pre-gain EQ), or after them (post-gain EQ). My Mesa/Boogie MarkIV has a pre-gain EQ tone stack, so the treble control in particular will greatly affect the signal level overall as well as the treble frequency ranges. If you turn the treble down, the signal will be weaker no matter how much the gain knob is cranked up, thus will not become as distorted. If you turn it up, it attenuates the signal less, thus can become more distorted when the gain is cranked up. So you can see that the Treble control has a lot more impact than just making a guitar signal sound brighter or darker.

Some treble controls affect more of the high-mids, thus could sound more midrangey rather than trebly and bright. In these cases, the presence control will affect the very high end treble frequencies. You can have a relatively dark but punchy midrangey sound even with the treble cranked, if the presence is turned right down. And at other times, the presence can be turned up so high, that it gets too piercing. And what about external equalisers? They often can boost the top end way beyond just cranking the treble control.

Maybe the speakers sound shrill and harsh when heard from a distance? Maybe the acoustics of the room over-emphasised the brightness of the guitar sound, beyond what was heard on the stage? Sometimes having too much high-mids can sound harsh and piercing, it depends on the particular frequency within that range, and whether a particular amp preferentially amplifies that frequency more than other amps.
So you can't just draw the line at Treble control knob settings.

 

[kirk]

I know it's just a general question, and CAN be answered simply- but the matter of the fact is that there are MANY variables into why an EQ control knob is set where it is. Different amplifiers have different EQ ranges for each treble, midrange, bass, and presence control knob. You crank the treble knob to 10 (or 5 o'clock) on two different amps and get two completely different sounds. Just because one musician might crank the treble on their amp, does not mean it would sound bright, harsh, and so piercing as to cause pain in the audience. Their amp might just inherently dark, so the treble needs to be turned right up to overcome that.

A large factor is if the tone stack is located prior to the preamp valves (pre-gain EQ), or after them (post-gain EQ). My Mesa/Boogie MarkIV has a pre-gain EQ tone stack, so the treble control in particular will greatly affect the signal level overall as well as the treble frequency ranges. If you turn the treble down, the signal will be weaker no matter how much the gain knob is cranked up, thus will not become as distorted. If you turn it up, it attenuates the signal less, thus can become more distorted when the gain is cranked up. So you can see that the Treble control has a lot more impact than just making a guitar signal sound brighter or darker.

Some treble controls affect more of the high-mids, thus could sound more midrangey rather than trebly and bright. In these cases, the presence control will affect the very high end treble frequencies. You can have a relatively dark but punchy midrangey sound even with the treble cranked, if the presence is turned right down. And at other times, the presence can be turned up so high, that it gets too piercing. And what about external equalisers? They often can boost the top end way beyond just cranking the treble control.

Maybe the speakers sound shrill and harsh when heard from a distance? Maybe the acoustics of the room over-emphasised the brightness of the guitar sound, beyond what was heard on the stage? Sometimes having too much high-mids can sound harsh and piercing, it depends on the particular frequency within that range, and whether a particular amp preferentially amplifies that frequency more than other amps.
So you can't just draw the line at Treble control knob settings.

sir...this was just a generalization question ,i already know preamp designs etc,this was just to get a general idea GENERAL not specific,i am sorry to offend with a general question about high end but my point is already proven 80% of players turn down
the hi's on their amps ,thats it

 

[Greazygeo]

sir...this was just a generalization question ,i already know preamp designs etc,this was just to get a general idea GENERAL not specific,i am sorry to offend with a general question about high end but my point is already proven 80% of players turn down
the hi's on their amps ,thats it

Can we hear some playing from you?

So of these 80% that turn their highs down, are they home or gigging players?

 

[kirk]

dude,..is this really that important? everyone is different and uses different equipment some are gigging musicians others are not ,again i am sorry that this question offends you and i'm not sure why you are persueing this so hard,but i'm tired right now and don't feel like posting videos on sunday morning, i'm gonna go get more coffee and relax i really dont have to prove anything i was just asking a question,or more just your opinion i'm not looking for a confrontation,i came here to these forums at the request of customers and to just answer questions from what i know,i dont claim to be the best or know everything ,i was just looking for a general answer to a general question

 

[JerryP]

i only ask this question because mr fja says that we are all kids playing in our rooms if we turn the treble down because we need all the treble to cut through a live band sound ,so if we turn the treble down we must not be professional players,...personally i play what i build and i turn my treble down at rehearsal hall and at live gigs,i like having more than i need,and almost always dont need more to cut through,just thought it was a ridiculous thing to say and you guys all proved that it was,one out of 13 plays with the treble cranked ,..thanks guys!

If you're going to quote me you need to quote me correctly and completely.

Any player playing live looking to dial out highs must be a young kid that doesn't understand the place a guitar holds in a song and what cutting thru the mix is all about. In my experience guys that play alone in their rooms want the big bottom and no highs because they are trying to cover the bass player parts they hear in songs. Guys that play live realize they have a bass player and they need to cut thru to be heard and stand out.

Jerry

 

[Greazygeo]

dude,..is this really that important? everyone is different and uses different equipment some are gigging musicians others are not ,again i am sorry that this question offends you and i'm not sure why you are persueing this so hard,but i'm tired right now and don't feel like posting videos on sunday morning, i'm gonna go get more coffee and relax i really dont have to prove anything i was just asking a question,or more just your opinion i'm not looking for a confrontation,i came here to these forums at the request of customers and to just answer questions from what i know,i dont claim to be the best or know everything ,i was just looking for a general answer to a general question

With the time it took to type all this you could have copied and pasted a link.

Most people here post clips and vids of their playing/ gigs. It's nice to know who and put a face with the person we are speaking with.....

 

[Jimmie]

Lets take the "variables of opinion" out of the equation for a moment, and break it down to simple mechanics: The optimal frequency response the hearing drum resonates at, is THE frequency that will be heard if the mix has amplified it properly, yes?

To complicate matters, the collective optimal "frequency response" has a range of variations as well, so what sounds amazing to one person will sound "meh" to another.

In taking those upper and lower frequencies into consideration, we have identified an average range that the target is bio-mechanically tuned to hear. The median average of that frequency range is what we should be attempting to boost to effectively cut through the mix to make the greatest "overall" impression.

From there, Treble/Presence and Bass is purely used to add texture, to compliment the range of tones and boost their respective odd and even harmonics.

Or not…

 

[EchelonEngineering]

I know it's just a general question, and CAN be answered simply- but the matter of the fact is that there are MANY variables into why an EQ control knob is set where it is. Different amplifiers have different EQ ranges for each treble, midrange, bass, and presence control knob. You crank the treble knob to 10 (or 5 o'clock) on two different amps and get two completely different sounds. Just because one musician might crank the treble on their amp, does not mean it would sound bright, harsh, and so piercing as to cause pain in the audience. Their amp might just inherently dark, so the treble needs to be turned right up to overcome that.

A large factor is if the tone stack is located prior to the preamp valves (pre-gain EQ), or after them (post-gain EQ). My Mesa/Boogie MarkIV has a pre-gain EQ tone stack, so the treble control in particular will greatly affect the signal level overall as well as the treble frequency ranges. If you turn the treble down, the signal will be weaker no matter how much the gain knob is cranked up, thus will not become as distorted. If you turn it up, it attenuates the signal less, thus can become more distorted when the gain is cranked up. So you can see that the Treble control has a lot more impact than just making a guitar signal sound brighter or darker.

Some treble controls affect more of the high-mids, thus could sound more midrangey rather than trebly and bright. In these cases, the presence control will affect the very high end treble frequencies. You can have a relatively dark but punchy midrangey sound even with the treble cranked, if the presence is turned right down. And at other times, the presence can be turned up so high, that it gets too piercing. And what about external equalisers? They often can boost the top end way beyond just cranking the treble control.

Maybe the speakers sound shrill and harsh when heard from a distance? Maybe the acoustics of the room over-emphasised the brightness of the guitar sound, beyond what was heard on the stage? Sometimes having too much high-mids can sound harsh and piercing, it depends on the particular frequency within that range, and whether a particular amp preferentially amplifies that frequency more than other amps.
So you can't just draw the line at Treble control knob settings.

You sir, must not have a life and spend all your waking moments trying to micro manage your rig. sit down, shut up, plug in and rock. The man just wanted to know about where folks are using the treble control. Now you're Einstein, trying to solve the mystery of the space time continuuuum by adding x, y and z into the equation. No need. Take your ritalin and relax.

 

[EchelonEngineering]

i only ask this question because mr fja says that we are all kids playing in our rooms if we turn the treble down because we need all the treble to cut through a live band sound ,so if we turn the treble down we must not be professional players,...personally i play what i build and i turn my treble down at rehearsal hall and at live gigs,i like having more than i need,and almost always dont need more to cut through,just thought it was a ridiculous thing to say and you guys all proved that it was,one out of 13 plays with the treble cranked ,..thanks guys!

If you're going to quote me you need to quote me correctly and completely.

Any player playing live looking to dial out highs must be a young kid that doesn't understand the place a guitar holds in a song and what cutting thru the mix is all about. In my experience guys that play alone in their rooms want the big bottom and no highs because they are trying to cover the bass player parts they hear in songs. Guys that play live realize they have a bass player and they need to cut thru to be heard and stand out.

Jerry

I heard that opinions are like assholes....everybody has one and they stink!

 

[killertone]

I guess I am a dumb kid, I rarely have my treble past 11 o'clock. Damn, close to 2,500 gigs under my belt and I never knew!

 

[EchelonEngineering]

I guess I am a dumb kid, I rarely have my treble past 11 o'clock. Damn, close to 2,500 gigs under my belt and I never knew!

exactly man. like i said....opinions are like assholes...