treble,where's your set on what amp

  • Thread starter Thread starter kirk
  • Start date Start date
psychodave":2pbfuxsp said:
EchelonEngineering":2pbfuxsp said:
petejt":2pbfuxsp said:
I know it's just a general question, and CAN be answered simply- but the matter of the fact is that there are MANY variables into why an EQ control knob is set where it is. Different amplifiers have different EQ ranges for each treble, midrange, bass, and presence control knob. You crank the treble knob to 10 (or 5 o'clock) on two different amps and get two completely different sounds. Just because one musician might crank the treble on their amp, does not mean it would sound bright, harsh, and so piercing as to cause pain in the audience. Their amp might just inherently dark, so the treble needs to be turned right up to overcome that.

A large factor is if the tone stack is located prior to the preamp valves (pre-gain EQ), or after them (post-gain EQ). My Mesa/Boogie MarkIV has a pre-gain EQ tone stack, so the treble control in particular will greatly affect the signal level overall as well as the treble frequency ranges. If you turn the treble down, the signal will be weaker no matter how much the gain knob is cranked up, thus will not become as distorted. If you turn it up, it attenuates the signal less, thus can become more distorted when the gain is cranked up. So you can see that the Treble control has a lot more impact than just making a guitar signal sound brighter or darker.

Some treble controls affect more of the high-mids, thus could sound more midrangey rather than trebly and bright. In these cases, the presence control will affect the very high end treble frequencies. You can have a relatively dark but punchy midrangey sound even with the treble cranked, if the presence is turned right down. And at other times, the presence can be turned up so high, that it gets too piercing. And what about external equalisers? They often can boost the top end way beyond just cranking the treble control.

Maybe the speakers sound shrill and harsh when heard from a distance? Maybe the acoustics of the room over-emphasised the brightness of the guitar sound, beyond what was heard on the stage? Sometimes having too much high-mids can sound harsh and piercing, it depends on the particular frequency within that range, and whether a particular amp preferentially amplifies that frequency more than other amps.
So you can't just draw the line at Treble control knob settings.


You sir, must not have a life and spend all your waking moments trying to micro manage your rig. sit down, shut up, plug in and rock. The man just wanted to know about where folks are using the treble control. Now you're Einstein, trying to solve the mystery of the space time continuuuum by adding x, y and z into the equation. No need. Take your ritalin and relax.


Your response would be better suited towards Kirk... :yes:


I don't think so there buddy. The man asked a general question intending on receiving general answers, not scientifically calculated answers dependant on when the moons of jupiter line up!
 
I can say it's easy to get an amp sounding like shit. Usually that means trying to cut out the treble and/or presence. When messing around without being heard in a mix, there may be a natural tendency to start taking out the highs. This will continue until the amp is dull and lifeless. Bring in an amp that is dialed in right and place it beside it and yours will sound like a blanket is covering it.
 
I disagree that gigging guitar players want to cut through the band mix with lots of highs.
It's the mids I'm not shy about, and crank it more than I do the highs in general.
 
Randy Van Sykes":3l6wj24a said:
I disagree that gigging guitar players want to cut through the band mix with lots of highs.
It's the mids I'm not shy about, and crank it more than I do the highs in general.
Same here...that said I don't see where having the knob below full equates as turning down since in the end when you center the controls which depending on how interactive they are and values is some where in the 11-1 o'clock area is where the base sound of the amp is...
ANd for what it's worth I have the treble in the 3 oclock or higher neighborhood on JMPs, and 7 or 8 number wise on old Fenders.
 
yo really guys it was just a survey not looking for opinions on where it should be set according to you relax guys no one really cares, ididnt know rig-talk was gonna end up like this i really dont care about any of this i've got enough to do,i'm not so vain that i have a quick link to my performances,nor do i have time to set it up you guys are on here night and day,i'm busy so since i've been so discredited by jerry and his freinds im just go do some work,jeez like a bunch of highschool kids and everyone is mad,whatever you guys are all right i'm ignoant and wrong,..ok everybody feel better
 
degenaro":84uappyz said:
Randy Van Sykes":84uappyz said:
I disagree that gigging guitar players want to cut through the band mix with lots of highs.
It's the mids I'm not shy about, and crank it more than I do the highs in general.
Same here...that said I don't see where having the knob below full equates as turning down since in the end when you center the controls which depending on how interactive they are and values is some where in the 11-1 o'clock area is where the base sound of the amp is...
ANd for what it's worth I have the treble in the 3 oclock or higher neighborhood on JMPs, and 7 or 8 number wise on old Fenders.
Ya, with an old Marshall I like mid, treble and presence at around 3 o'clock (bright channel) and bass at around 2 - 4 o'clock.
A Fender Deluxe of Deville sounds best to me for rock tones dialed in pretty similar to an old Marshall. I like keeping the mid dialed up on them to.

Mesa's are a whole other ballgame. The Electra Dyne is good not straying too far from 12:00 with everything...mid at around 11:00 o'clock actually.
 
On CCV 11:00 O'Clock

Modded 79' Marshall HG Jose 12:00 O'Clock.

Roid RAGE
 
psychodave":14p8h207 said:
Kirk, do you have a website where I can check out your original amp designs and mods? How about some clips of your amps in action...maybe a few clips alone and a few clips in a complete band situation. I am always interested in hearing new designs :thumbsup:


you can find some info on kirk's work at http://www.eepedals.com under tube amp mods.
 
psychodave":wao37hf7 said:
Kirk, do you have a website where I can check out your original amp designs and mods? How about some clips of your amps in action...maybe a few clips alone and a few clips in a complete band situation. I am always interested in hearing new designs :thumbsup:
i dont have a site set up yet,..im working on it ,but i know a couple of my customers want to set up a shoot out video of stock vs mod amps,some are mine some are jerry's and i think they have one more guy who did some too
i will try to get that stuff rolling but i am a one man shop and pride myself of a short lead time so im always working ,i get repairs and mods out in less than 2-3 days,builds are long gone i cant keep up on those they dissappear fast,cause i also pride myself as a working man's shop i'm cheap,so they buy'm up fast
i'll tell you what,i was lucky enough to check out a collin's amp that came across the bench ,and spoke with that shop on the phone ,his design's are great he built one that has a shiva front end with a jcm800 power amp and that amp was great,one of the best sounding designs i've heard,
There are so many guys out there now designing and building ,its become a tough market because there are great designers out there doing a fantastic job,i make good money fixing and modding so i've leaned away from building unless someone orders one,and i dont make as much profit on those and dont want to charge 1500 an amp
i'm also leaning towards old school designs and i add modern twist to them,it works out sweet the sounds are great
But i will get some of my stuff up here soon thanks for asking...kirk
 
Randy Van Sykes":2myhti43 said:
degenaro":2myhti43 said:
Randy Van Sykes":2myhti43 said:
I disagree that gigging guitar players want to cut through the band mix with lots of highs.
It's the mids I'm not shy about, and crank it more than I do the highs in general.
Same here...that said I don't see where having the knob below full equates as turning down since in the end when you center the controls which depending on how interactive they are and values is some where in the 11-1 o'clock area is where the base sound of the amp is...
ANd for what it's worth I have the treble in the 3 oclock or higher neighborhood on JMPs, and 7 or 8 number wise on old Fenders.
Ya, with an old Marshall I like mid, treble and presence at around 3 o'clock (bright channel) and bass at around 2 - 4 o'clock.
A Fender Deluxe of Deville sounds best to me for rock tones dialed in pretty similar to an old Marshall. I like keeping the mid dialed up on them to.

Mesa's are a whole other ballgame. The Electra Dyne is good not straying too far from 12:00 with everything...mid at around 11:00 o'clock actually.

Man, you guys must be playing different JMPs than I am...if I ran mine ('77 NMV) like that it would be so bright it would be utterly unusable. :dunno:
 
killertone":2gfmp5tp said:
Randy Van Sykes":2gfmp5tp said:
degenaro":2gfmp5tp said:
Randy Van Sykes":2gfmp5tp said:
I disagree that gigging guitar players want to cut through the band mix with lots of highs.
It's the mids I'm not shy about, and crank it more than I do the highs in general.
Same here...that said I don't see where having the knob below full equates as turning down since in the end when you center the controls which depending on how interactive they are and values is some where in the 11-1 o'clock area is where the base sound of the amp is...
ANd for what it's worth I have the treble in the 3 oclock or higher neighborhood on JMPs, and 7 or 8 number wise on old Fenders.
Ya, with an old Marshall I like mid, treble and presence at around 3 o'clock (bright channel) and bass at around 2 - 4 o'clock.
A Fender Deluxe of Deville sounds best to me for rock tones dialed in pretty similar to an old Marshall. I like keeping the mid dialed up on them to.

Mesa's are a whole other ballgame. The Electra Dyne is good not straying too far from 12:00 with everything...mid at around 11:00 o'clock actually.

Man, you guys must be playing different JMPs than I am...if I ran mine ('77 NMV) like that it would be so bright it would be utterly unusable. :dunno:
If I was using an old Marshall with pedals for gain and the volume of the amp was turned down, I would set things closer to 5 overall. For me, as the volume goes up, the mids and treble go up and the bass goes down. It needs to be cranked up, the volume above 6, it smooths and fattens right up. With a cranked up Marshall the controls just become distortion shapers.
 
Well I'm surprised no one supplied this comment so I will.

I can't change where my treble is set on my amp. its located right next to my 'Mid' knob and one away from my 'bass' knob.

:lol: :LOL: :lol: :LOL: :lol: :LOL: :lol: :LOL: :lol: :LOL: :lol: :LOL: :lol: :LOL: :no: :no: :no: :no: :no: :no:
 
killertone":34d2xbot said:
Man, you guys must be playing different JMPs than I am...if I ran mine ('77 NMV) like that it would be so bright it would be utterly unusable. :dunno:
How loud did you have it?
 
LOUD. It was my main gigging amp for a few years before it began to have some issues. It is stock.
 
killertone":slevwgk7 said:
LOUD. It was my main gigging amp for a few years before it began to have some issues. It is stock.
Did it have the disc cap on the Vol labeled 5k? The treb, mid and presence on mine are normally all on 10 with the vol anywhere from 8-10 and is pretty mellow tonewise. Not that the tone controls really do anything that is..... :)
 
Greazygeo":2176m1iz said:
killertone":2176m1iz said:
LOUD. It was my main gigging amp for a few years before it began to have some issues. It is stock.
Did it have the disc cap on the Vol labeled 5k? The treb, mid and presence on mine are normally all on 10 with the vol anywhere from 8-10 and is pretty mellow tonewise. Not that the tone controls really do anything that is..... :)
Dude...I'm not even jumpering inputs I just go into the treble input...
 
psychodave":3q9i4ezn said:
EchelonEngineering":3q9i4ezn said:
psychodave":3q9i4ezn said:
Kirk, do you have a website where I can check out your original amp designs and mods? How about some clips of your amps in action...maybe a few clips alone and a few clips in a complete band situation. I am always interested in hearing new designs :thumbsup:


you can find some info on kirk's work at http://www.eepedals.com under tube amp mods.

I checked out the amp mods. I didnt see anything special or anything outlined with detail. I did see a 68 plexi with duct tape on the filter caps? :lol: :LOL: I am not trying to bust balls, I am just saying what I see. ;) A dedicated site would be more beneficial to showcase all of the mods and original builds. :)
ya that is a original 68 plexi,..it came in with the duct tape :gethim: and the customer wont let me touch it,he just wanted the bias corrected,he said it sound great the way it is and didnt want to change anything in it,i think he thought the duct tape added to his sound,...thats funny ,.of coarse i abliedge the paying customer,..i'm working the site it will be up soon
 
degenaro":3832wyw8 said:
Greazygeo":3832wyw8 said:
killertone":3832wyw8 said:
LOUD. It was my main gigging amp for a few years before it began to have some issues. It is stock.
Did it have the disc cap on the Vol labeled 5k? The treb, mid and presence on mine are normally all on 10 with the vol anywhere from 8-10 and is pretty mellow tonewise. Not that the tone controls really do anything that is..... :)
Dude...I'm not even jumpering inputs I just go into the treble input...
Same here, but I do turn up CH II vol to about 9:00.
 
Back
Top