Triple Recto Rev G vs "C Modded" Rev G

[GJgo]

As I did mention though, the amps were set up identically, so that setting may not be optimal for the C mod now that it’s a different amp.

I fully appreciate that many of the differences we could negate by turning knobs. That's why I appreciate what I'm seeing in the liveliness of the stems in the C mod compared to stock- it's just a lot more dynamic now, which I appreciate.

 

[braintheory]

When someone can identify a “real” mic and cab setup vs the IR equivalent of that exact same setup, or a better yet a setup that ISNT at all that same setup ( because if you can tell one is an IR and the other is a real amp why should it matter if the 2 sounds compared are the same setup or not) I’ll shut up…


But, anyone who makes a comment like “ OMGZ I HATE IR’zzzz!!!” Sounds like an arrogant child. Because we both know you can’t tell the difference, so save it

IR’s I think are a good thing. Again maybe I’m wrong since I’m not a big recording guy, but it just seems like IR’s do a lot of the heavy lifting for someone that may not know well themselves how to mic a cab (not that I do either), so as a result we sometimes get really good sounding IR clips (they don’t make amps sound the same or more similar) and bad sounding clips actually mic’d because of many factors like poor mic’ing/recording techniques, bad room or who knows what else, so I can see where some are coming from not liking IR’s. I just like whatever sounds good and I feel does a somewhat decent job at showing what the amp sounds like and IR’s can certainly do that from what I’ve heard

 

[GJgo]

I don’t think it pulls us away. I think the more inspiring sound and feel can also inspire playing more expressively or nuanced and even the way we write some music. Whether that comes through in a recording or not I don’t know and there’s nothing wrong with using whatever amp you want in that context. I just personally don’t find recording as interesting. To each their own. I also think most of these amp makers (from talking to many also) designed their amps much more around how people enjoy them in person. I think these tools were mostly envisioned to be used in a band playing live and of course recording them is great too. It’s not an either/or, but I do prefer the in-person experience where I really hear all the details in both the sound and playing itself of others and can be even more impressed with it. Fwiw, some of these great amp builders don’t even know much about recording at all

I also feel it may not be a coincidence the way a lot of music used to have playing with more nuanced feel and musical ideas that stuck to me more than most of it recently being technically more accurate, but generally more sterile (lots of exceptions of course). I think the gear affects how we play and sometimes even write music independently of clips

All the amps that I've demoed on my YT, the majority of them I've rehearsed or gigged with the band as well. That's always been where the rubber really meets the road for me because an amp can't hide in the mix. Err, well, it can and that sucks. When I've played rigs live like the Helix or the Mark VII they just fell so flat that there was no inspiration & it sucked the fun out of playing for me. Amps like the Mark IIB+, IVb, a good Recto or a SLO are the opposite- they add a special sauce that inspires me to dig in harder and play with more emotion. Most are somewhere in the middle.

I've generally been less concerned about how an amp records as with good quality high gain amps, you can essentially make any of them sound great in post. Hell, the 5150 / 5152 IMO records high gain better than most high $$ amps even though to me it's a little sterile in the room..

I guess in short, for live it's important to me to get the right amp / speaker combo. For recording it's important to get the right speaker / mic combo. The speaker is the most important piece of gear IMO in terms of REAL tonal changes.

 

[braintheory]

All the amps that I've demoed on my YT, the majority of them I've rehearsed or gigged with the band as well. That's always been where the rubber really meets the road for me because an amp can't hide in the mix. Err, well, it can and that sucks. When I've played rigs live like the Helix or the Mark VII they just fell so flat that there was no inspiration & it sucked the fun out of playing for me. Amps like the Mark IIB+, IVb, a good Recto or a SLO are the opposite- they add a special sauce that inspires me to dig in harder and play with more emotion. Most are somewhere in the middle.

I've generally been less concerned about how an amp records as with good quality high gain amps, you can essentially make any of them sound great in post. Hell, the 5150 / 5152 IMO records high gain better than most high $$ amps even though to me it's a little sterile in the room..

I guess in short, for live it's important to me to get the right amp / speaker combo. For recording it's important to get the right speaker / mic combo. The speaker is the most important piece of gear IMO in terms of REAL tonal changes.

I agree. I haven’t done live or rehearsal with electric since focusing on classical, but those used to be my experiences as well and I actually did get some nice complements on better amps I had than when I used say my mark v I had at the time or other amps that didn’t inspire me as much, which again is part of why I don’t buy into “the audience doesn’t know the difference”. Even if one or 2 guys do and say something about it I think it’s worthwhile

Agreed on speakers as well. This is why I have over 60 of them lol from various vintage celestions, fanes, JBL’s, Altec’s and others. On a separate note, I think more guys here should step out of the box of only using celestions. There’s other great flavors that have some things to offer that celestions don’t and vice versa

 

[GJgo]

When someone can identify a “real” mic and cab setup vs the IR equivalent of that exact same setup, or a better yet a setup that ISNT at all that same setup ( because if you can tell one is an IR and the other is a real amp why should it matter if the 2 sounds compared are the same setup or not) I’ll shut up…


But, anyone who makes a comment like “ OMGZ I HATE IR’zzzz!!!” Sounds like an arrogant child. Because we both know you can’t tell the difference, so save it

Well I previously put these comparos together. The IRs are the Mark IV and Mesa Recto cab from Amplitube's Mesa collection, and the real amp is the IIC+ Coli and the Recto 4x12. The first one was using a 2006 Recto cab & the second one a 2001 Recto cab.

At the time I didn't have a Mark IV to do a direct comparison to the Amplitube stuff, but now I do, and could go revisit this if I was so inclined as I have all the stems. Anyway, what do you hear?

 

[GJgo]

IR’s I think are a good thing. Again maybe I’m wrong since I’m not a big recording guy, but it just seems like IR’s do a lot of the heavy lifting for someone that may not know well themselves how to mic a cab (not that I do either), so as a result we sometimes get really good sounding IR clips (they don’t make amps sound the same or more similar) and bad sounding clips actually mic’d because of many factors like poor mic’ing/recording techniques, bad room or who knows what else, so I can see where some are coming from not liking IR’s. I just like whatever sounds good and I feel does a somewhat decent job at showing what the amp sounds like and IR’s can certainly do that from what I’ve heard

Honestly it's SO much easier to get a good recorded tone from an IR than from learning how to mic a cab. If I didn't already own all this gear I would totally just record with IRs. ...So now I spend hours trying to get recorded tones that are as good or better than the IR my engineer, and consider myself lucky if I do.

 

[Bram576]

No one here could tell the difference between an IR or micd cab.

 

[VESmedic]

Well I previously put these comparos together. The IRs are the Mark IV and Mesa Recto cab from Amplitube's Mesa collection, and the real amp is the IIC+ Coli and the Recto 4x12. The first one was using a 2006 Recto cab & the second one a 2001 Recto cab.

At the time I didn't have a Mark IV to do a direct comparison to the Amplitube stuff, but now I do, and could go revisit this if I was so inclined as I have all the stems. Anyway, what do you hear?

Those tones in the first video are vastly, I mean vastly different….and it’s not because one is an IR and one is an actual amp and cab setup either. If an IR And a real mic/cab combo were actually THAT different, this wouldn’t even be a conversation ( just like if someone can tell if a tone is a real amp or IR or not isnt a real conversation, becsuse they can’t) and no one argue that they are vastly different.

Could I pick one of those out and identify which one is a real amp and which one isn’t? Of course not. They both sound like real cabs, one just obviously much brighter and more aggressive than the other. There’s nothing inherent in those tones that could make me say “oh yes this one is an IR because of XYZ”.

 

[braintheory]

Those tones in the first video are vastly, I mean vastly different….and it’s not because one is an IR and one is an actual amp and cab setup either. If an IR And a real mic/cab combo were actually THAT different, this wouldn’t even be a conversation ( just like if someone can tell if a tone is a real amp or IR or not isnt a real conversation, becsuse they can’t) and no one argue that they are vastly different.

Could I pick one of those out and identify which one is a real amp and which one isn’t? Of course not. They both sound like real cabs, one just obviously much brighter and more aggressive than the other. There’s nothing inherent in those tones that could make me say “oh yes this one is an IR because of XYZ”.

One advantage I can see though of not using IR’s is more potential to really craft your own sound and fine tune it, especially with less common speakers and cabs like JBL’s, Altec’s, Kerry Wright or Schroeder cabs and the various mixes involving them. Maybe it’s only a matter of time until we get IR’s with those, but in the meantime at least it’s something different

 

[Bram576]

One advantage I can see though of not using IR’s is more potential to really craft your own sound and fine tune it, especially with less common speakers and cabs like JBL’s, Altec’s, Kerry Wright or Schroeder cabs and the various mixes involving them. Maybe it’s only a matter of time until we get IR’s with those, but in the meantime at least it’s something different

Yeah, I mean I’m sure there’s something out there if almost everything. Now, that doesn’t mean that it was captured well.

 

[VESmedic]

One advantage I can see though of not using IR’s is more potential to really craft your own sound and fine tune it, especially with less common speakers and cabs like JBL’s, Altec’s, Kerry Wright or Schroeder cabs and the various mixes involving them. Maybe it’s only a matter of time until we get IR’s with those, but in the meantime at least it’s something different

Agreed, which is why real speakers always will win for originality etc. they are all different. But that’s also why I don’t mind buying 10 different guys v30 IR’s or whatever, because speakers of the same type even as we all know vary significantly, it’s nice to have different flavors.


And no, there is no magical year for V30s

 

[VESmedic]

Yeah, I mean I’m sure there’s something out there if almost everything. Now, that doesn’t mean that it was captured well.

Exactly. Ain’t that the truth. Sheesh…..

 

[braintheory]

Yeah, I mean I’m sure there’s something out there if almost everything. Now, that doesn’t mean that it was captured well.

I’m guessing also some speakers and cabs are probably harder to capture than others

 

[VESmedic]

I’m guessing also some speakers and cabs are probably harder to capture than others

Man I dunno, micing a cab ain’t rocket science, but with how some peoples IR’s sound, you’d think it is….

 

[Racerxrated]

OK. Now I've read all the comments

I know its a fun discussion but remember everyone uses gear for different reasons and we are all vastly different. That, and the whole recording close mic vs In-room thing is very subjective. I say we enjoy all of it for what it is



@Racerxrated - I didn't know you did Sturgis 4 times - I bet you've got some stories from those I also didn't realize you have some recordings. I'd love to hear you man strait up

Oh, the Sturgis thing was just a couple campground beer tent gigs; and twice in Deadwood which is 10 minutes from Sturgis. But, suffice to say if you play Saloon #10 during the rally it's friggin nuts. Good times. A local sound guy here used to run one of the main stage sound/lights; he'd make 60k for the week and did it for years.

The 2 inch tape deal was right after I got out of the military; joined a band that was already in the process of recording a demo to shop. So I jumped in and did some rhythm stuff but it was still fun, and a cool thing to be a part of for sure.

I just find it comical that, if someone on RT buys decent gear and enjoys it at home, that some others somehow "know it all" about each of our backgrounds, and how dare we own/play such nice gear if we aren't recording/being creative/touring or some such thing. News flash....playing guitar at home can be creative on it's own. And, it's really no ones damn business WHAT we do with the gear we enjoy.
You make clips? Good for you, and thanks for the effort.
Someone owns a silly expensive amp and that pisses you off? Then don't read the thread about it.
After all, it's rig talk and we talk gear. Get over it.

 

[Racerxrated]

the run of the mill amp sounds better than the mythical amp on a recording and thats always gonna cause problems

Yet, in the room the run of the mill amp sounds like ass vs the mythical hard to find amp. That seems to be an issue with the engineer; gonna have to try harder I guess.
The ears don't lie.

 

[Racerxrated]

Dude I completely agree with you, as I generally do. Everyone likes the way an amp sounds in the room, I just think it’s important to know where someone’s point of view comes from
When they throw around “facts” or opinions. There’s no doubt an amp in the room can be “inspiring”, everyone needs that…but again, to do what then? All of this is supposed to lead to something of some kind of substance, writing/playing actual music. That’s my point. We ALL focus on way too much bullshit that pulls us away from that.


And again, flying off the handle like a child because someone brought up ACTUALLY (gasp) recording music with these tools that were made to do just that, is…..well I guess just what I would expect from rig talk!

"All of this is supposed to lead to something of some kind of substance, writing/playing actual music. That’s my point. We ALL focus on way too much bullshit that pulls us away from that."

Dude, this statement tells all. I get that you come from a recording background, and know your shit. I appreciate that, and esp the help you give to others in this regard.
But, ^^that statement is a little 'assuming' no? This is YOUR opinion on WHAT should be happening on this forum. News Flash: Not everyone here RECORDS. It's great that guys do; more power to them. But you seem to want to 'mock' those of us who simply love to play our rigs, at home for our own enjoyment. Because we don't 'record' or 'create' or whatever you think someone here SHOULD do. I record phone clips all the time and send them to a few dudes here. But I'm not interested in the rabbit hole of buying another 57, then a different exp mic, then all the other shit I'd have to buy. Sorry. Not interested. Maybe I will in the future?

Honestly, there's a sub forum here for guys who record. Maybe that's where you need to spend more of your time? Just so you can stay 'unoffended' by threads that talk about spendy, rare gear.

 

[braintheory]

Oh, the Sturgis thing was just a couple campground beer tent gigs; and twice in Deadwood which is 10 minutes from Sturgis. But, suffice to say if you play Saloon #10 during the rally it's friggin nuts. Good times. A local sound guy here used to run one of the main stage sound/lights; he'd make 60k for the week and did it for years.

The 2 inch tape deal was right after I got out of the military; joined a band that was already in the process of recording a demo to shop. So I jumped in and did some rhythm stuff but it was still fun, and a cool thing to be a part of for sure.

I just find it comical that, if someone on RT buys decent gear and enjoys it at home, that some others somehow "know it all" about each of our backgrounds, and how dare we own/play such nice gear if we aren't recording/being creative/touring or some such thing. News flash....playing guitar at home can be creative on it's own. And, it's really no ones damn business WHAT we do with the gear we enjoy.
You make clips? Good for you, and thanks for the effort.
Someone owns a silly expensive amp and that pisses you off? Then don't read the thread about it.
After all, it's rig talk and we talk gear. Get over it.

Nah we are just being selfish and removing our mandatory responsibility of sharing clips to not be classed as artistically useless bedroom elitists. How selfish to enjoy cool gear and talk about it with some meaningful level of detail. Posting clips all of a sudden (sometimes also in a bedroom lol) makes one above that status

 

[Racerxrated]

Nah we are just being selfish and removing our mandatory responsibility of sharing clips to not be classed as artistically useless bedroom elitists. How selfish to enjoy cool gear and talk about it with some meaningful level of detail. Posting clips all of a sudden (sometimes also in a bedroom lol) all of a sudden makes one above that status

Yep; these days in order to be a kool kid you MUST POST DE CLIPZZZZ

 

[braintheory]

Yet, in the room the run of the mill amp sounds like ass vs the mythical hard to find amp. That seems to be an issue with the engineer; gonna have to try harder I guess.
The ears don't lie.

It's kind of like when you meet a girl off a dating app that looked so great in pics, but not the same at all in person. Should we still just stay attached to how she looked in pics? Just like when we hear a great clip of an amp and then try it in person and it doesn't sound that great we feel a bit tricked