Trump/Vance just put Zelinskyy in his place

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They should not have done that on camera, the initial meeting should have been behind closed doors, then the consensus of the meeting covered in front of cameras. Zelinsky has compromised the whole process by thinking he could handle Trump like he did Biden because the cameras were on them.
Trump clearly does not give a shit if they are on or off
 
JTyson said:
They should not have done that on camera, the initial meeting should have been behind closed doors, then the consensus of the meeting covered in front of cameras. Zelinsky has compromised the whole process by thinking he could handle Trump like he did Biden because the cameras were on them.
Trump clearly does not give a shit if they are on or off
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Fuck it, let the American people see how the spoiled little coke addict brat disrespects the country. He’s a POS.
 
We sent 60 billion there.
Look at all the good it would have done here

Free hookers and blow for everyone for life.

But seriously it could have fixed our medical system, infrastructure and
Insurance issues
 
ImO I can understand the Ukrainian Presidents stance. If you sign now your going down in history as the President who gave away land to an invading country and also blood and soil......



Those aren't ideal preconditions for a ceasefire, it also leaves Europe vulnerable with no real protection and it's not just Zelensky who doesn't want him to sign it I imagine it's probably European Leaders from England to Germany and France as well and a large group of Center Neo Con Republicans too....... in real politics it also leaves America vulnerable in the future as well.



IMO this whole mess up started with Obama after he refused to really do anything after the Syrians and Russians used Weapons of Mass Casualties or Chemical Weapons..... after Crimea.....



The Russians simply always look for open doors...... and they will always look for an open door unless there is steel on the other side of it..... they will keep looking to open doors as they have in Ukraine and other parts of the world.....




It's good IMO in the grand scheme of things the deal wasn't signed, the war will continue and more will die but the alternative IMo wasn't acceptable for Ukraine, Europe or even the US.



Plus now the Europeans will actually have to do something meaningful and start taking more measures to spend in military and defend themselves vs over-reliance on the US. Maybe peace will come after another 4 years of war but I don't see it coming anytime soon after this.
 
The~Kid said:
ImO I can understand the Ukrainian Presidents stance. If you sign now your going down in history as the President who gave away land to an invading country and also blood and soil......



Those aren't ideal precondition, it also leaves Europe vulnerable with no real protection and it's not just Zelensky who doesn't want him to sign it I imagine it's probably European Leaders from England to Germany and France as well and a large group of Center Neo Con Republicans too....... in real politics it also leaves America vulnerable in the future as well.



IMO this whole mess up started with Obama after he refused to really do anything after the Syrians and Russians used Weapons of Mass Casualties or Chemical Weapons..... after Crimea.....



The Russians simply always look for open doors...... and they will always look for an open door unless there is steel on the other side of it..... they will keep looking to open doors as they have in Ukraine and other parts of the world.....




It's good IMO in the grand scheme of things the deal wasn't signed, the war will continue and more will die but the alternative IMo wasn't acceptable for Ukraine, Europe or even the US.



Plus now the Europeans will actually have to do something meaningful and start taking more measures to spend in military and defend themselves vs over-reliance on the US. Maybe peace will come after another 4 years of war but I don't see it coming anytime soon after this.
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You just said a whole lot of nothing.
 
It's not bad or good the deal didn't get signed and it really is probably the best option and thing that could have happened.


The way I see it's just a process in free individuals making their own decisions freely to reach an equilibrium vs the Russian way of life/thinking or Chinese way of life from that perspective and value such places hold on individual freedom or individual choice. In either case the Chinese and Russians are also free agents seeking to make decisions in a part of that equilibrium to shape the world how they want it.


In a free market and free world nothing is pretty all the time but things always seem to work themselves out in the end and this is just a step in that direction.
 
The~Kid said:
It's not bad or good the deal didn't get signed and it really is probably the best option and thing that could have happened.
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The best thing that could happen for whom? The continuing grind of war?
The~Kid said:
The way I see it's just a process in free individuals making their own decisions freely to reach an equilibrium vs the Russian way of life/thinking or Chinese way of life from that perspective and value such places hold on individual freedom or individual choice. In either case the Chinese and Russians are also free agents seeking to make decisions in a part of that equilibrium to shape the world how they want it.
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Where did China come into this? And individual choice? What?
The~Kid said:
In a free market and free world nothing is pretty all the time but things always seem to work themselves out in the end and this is just a step in that direction.
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This has nothing to do with a free market. Please prove to me, with a singular thought that you aren't some A.I. fueled entitiy just spewing shit.
 
japetus said:
You just said a whole lot of nothing.
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Just saying can't really blame the guy for not signing. And yeah it seems President Trump is just giving the Russians everything they want and putting America and it's allies in the backseat here IMO and it's hard to see it some other way outside of the far fringe.


Me personally am glad he didn't sign, give him props for having the balls not to do so and well I'm with the Ukrainians on this one having voted for Trump. One knew this was coming but still not something I agree with.



ImO the Russians just won't stop and the more doors being left open for them without steel on the other side of it the more and more crap like Ukraine they will do in the future leaving America and it's allies vulnerable.



Zelensky IMO was left no other option and it sucks but it's for the best given the circumstances for him, Europe and even the US.
 
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The~Kid said:
Just saying can't really blame the guy for not signing. And yeah it seems President Trump is just giving the Russians everything they want and putting America and it's allies in the backseat here IMO and it's hard to see it some other way outside of the far fringe.


Me personally am glad he didn't sign, give him props for having the balls not to do so and well I'm with the Ukrainianians on this one having voted for Trump. One knew this was coming but still not something I agree with.



ImO the Russians just won't stop and the more doors being left open for them without steel on the other side of it the more and more crap like Ukraine they will do in the future leaving America and it's allies vulnerable.



Zelensky IMO was left no other option and it sucks but it's for the best given the circumstances for him, Europe and even the US.
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Exactly what I thought
 
japetus said:
The best thing that could happen for whom? The continuing grind of war?

Where did China come into this? And individual choice? What?

This has nothing to do with a free market. Please prove to me, with a singular thought that you aren't some A.I. fueled entitiy just spewing shit.
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I don't think many are aware but yeah these three countries and their allies.....



America, China and Russia are playing to see whos way of life, whos ideas and values and who comes out as top dog in the next 100 years.



It's a competition for the Hegemon of the world for the next 1000 years...... and this century decides that outcome pretty much.



It's a battle for which way of life comes out on top.......




Maybe some are happy to throw in the towel or not realize this but IMO out of the three the American/Western way of life and what the west represents is worth fighting for and worth preserving. Western values and ideals should not and will not quietly go into the night and they will not under any circumstances with people like Zelensky or people in Ukraine and other parts of the world including America.
 
Haven't watched the whole thing, just bits and pieces but idk. I feel that Trump/Vance are the disrespectful ones here.

From the moment Trump greeted his arrival, apparently Trump was offended the guy wasn't wearing a suit? Pfft..

Then the bits and pieces I did see from the videos it seems like Trump/Vance are just playing the strong arm gang leader role and expecting him to kiss their ass and lick their balls. They were offended that he didn't and became pretty disrespectful.

I understand he needs the US help to end this but he did have some points about Russia killing and invading (that's another story) but if Vance wants to talk about diplomacy, I think that should include respect from both sides and not just kiss my ass or else.

Seems like the only time he got disrespectful to us was because he was tired of everyone taking shots at him, cutting him off and acting tough.
 
OldGtrGuy said:
Haven't watched the whole thing, just bits and pieces but idk. I feel that Trump/Vance are the disrespectful ones here.

From the moment Trump greeted his arrival, apparently Trump was offended the guy wasn't wearing a suit? Pfft..

Then the bits and pieces I did see from the videos it seems like Trump/Vance are just playing the strong arm gang leader role and expecting him to kiss their ass and lick their balls. They were offended that he didn't and became pretty disrespectful.

I understand he needs the US help to end this but he did have some points about Russia killing and invading (that's another story) but if Vance wants to talk about diplomacy, I think that should include respect from both sides and not just kiss my ass and lick my balls or else.
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You would be a horrible diplomat, but as you say, the sale continues
 
japetus said:
You would be a horrible diplomat, but as you say, the sale continues
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I'm not sure what your definition of diplomacy is but being disrespectful is actually the opposite of the true definition. You seem to got that down pretty well though 😉
 
JTyson said:
They should not have done that on camera, the initial meeting should have been behind closed doors, then the consensus of the meeting covered in front of cameras. Zelinsky has compromised the whole process by thinking he could handle Trump like he did Biden because the cameras were on them.
Trump clearly does not give a shit if they are on or off
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This is the way I see it in Trump not giving a shit which is expected.....


But hey atleast it makes the Europeans know they can't rely on America all the time and they need to invest more in military and defense which is what the French, British and even Germans will come to realize and be forced to do even more and in a bigger fashion now than ever before.



It will be slow and hopefully faster and sooner than not but it will be necessary and required and the foreseeable next step on the part of the West and Europeans in that regard.
 
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