Tubes to Become Obsolete?

[blackba]

I hope tubes remain enough under the 'Green movement' radar not to attract attention like those 'evil' incandescent light bulbs.

 

[jerrydyer]

well,,,,,,, I dont know. Solid state tube substitution has been in the works for approx 30 years (fetron) and they still havent got past V1. if you make em shiney enough and get a big name behind them, they will sell though. Its a Honey Boo Boo world baby. Bring on the trash.

I bet some entity here in the states will take on tube manufacturing. That is if we figure out a way not to punish people for making money.

 

[hellaboogie]

All I know is that if AMT electronics comes out with solid state 12AX7 and EL34 replacement devices and they sound like the analog tubes I like, I'll be putting them in all my amps, my own and the ones I sell. The idea of never buying tubes again is attractive to me if the tone and feel I get with real tubes is there...

Steve

I'd have to rig up little glowing light on them, maybe some LEDs

 

[Anonymous]

All I know is that if AMT electronics comes out with solid state 12AX7 and EL34 replacement devices and they sound like the analog tubes I like, I'll be putting them in all my amps, my own and the ones I sell. The idea of never buying tubes again is attractive to me if the tone and feel I get with real tubes is there...

Steve

I'd have to rig up little glowing light on them, maybe some LEDs

How do you know they're not gonna come with that?

Steve

 

[dooredge]

You continue to ignore the issue of audio tubes vs all other types/functions. What does Meyya Meyyapan think about audio specifically? I'm not pretending to have a clue myself, I just haven't seen one credible argument for the ongoing production of AUDIO tubes yet and I've searched well beyond the baseless opinions in this thread. Ritchie is a guy with established credibility. I have no idea if he's correct, but at least he's offering a researched view point on a specific tube type and not simply tubes in general.

I'm not sure what he thinks. Why don't you look him up on facebook and find out?

Really though, a tube is a tube is a tube. The general components and construction are the same; there will always be some allowance for the construction of AUDIO tubes. Regardless of what you assume, I choose to assume the opposite. Ritchie is a marketing pud and I discount his opinion. Good day sir!

 

[rupe]

 

[Slaymoar]

I was invovled in an interesting discussion last week on Ritchie Fliegler's facebook page. He essentially said that tubes will become obsolete in the near future...not because digital/ss gear is better, but because they will no longer be feasible to manufacture. A direct quote:

Good conversation. There are many issues with modern tubes, but, as far as demand driving production. Today's stuff is economically feasible, in part, due to the fact that the machinery they are made on was paid off 50 years ago. That machinery and the people who run/ran it are fading very fast. To rebuild the infrastructure for the next 50 years is not economically feasible at current costs. So, 12ax7s at the price of 300Bs? Sure. But nobody's gonna pay that. There is more to this to be sure, but this is a central and important issue.

I guess it's time to start hoarding glass again.
I sold off a ton of my NOS stuff when I realized (with a few exceptions) that it really didn't sound better in the amps that I like and the prices were becoming exorbitant.

Thoughts?

Brings some thought.. but there will always be a market where there is demand. If people want to buy tubes, someone will figure out how to offer them. If two companies go out of business because their machinery failed, it leaves more market and feasibility to all other companies.

 

[stephen sawall]

All I know is that if AMT electronics comes out with solid state 12AX7 and EL34 replacement devices and they sound like the analog tubes I like, I'll be putting them in all my amps, my own and the ones I sell. The idea of never buying tubes again is attractive to me if the tone and feel I get with real tubes is there...

Steve

I have been tempted to try them out .... Some people say they sound great. Anyone that tries them I would like to hear their opinion. A tube that never needs to be replaced is very appealing.

 

[Anonymous]

All I know is that if AMT electronics comes out with solid state 12AX7 and EL34 replacement devices and they sound like the analog tubes I like, I'll be putting them in all my amps, my own and the ones I sell. The idea of never buying tubes again is attractive to me if the tone and feel I get with real tubes is there...

Steve

I have been tempted to try them out .... Some people say they sound great. Anyone that tries them I would like to hear their opinion. A tube that never needs to be replaced is very appealing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the AMT solid state devices are not available yet, right? So no one could have used them yet...

Anyone tried the Jet City RetroValves? Analog 12AX7 tube replacements... Interesting...

Steve

 

[dooredge]

Steve is correct. From what I read, AMT is looking at Spring 2013 release. Will be interesting to try them out too.

 

[nwright]

I work in the medical field and my nuclear medicine camera has 70 PMT tubes in it alone. Along with ct, x-ray, x ray digital reading devices, and mammography, tubes aren't going anywhere. I am not talking about x-ray producing tubes either, which are also a part of some of this equipment. My nuclear camera is made in Germany (Siemens) and uses tubes made by the same companies that we buy our tubes for our amps for. This is all equipment that is less than a year old, and there is nothing in the works with getting solid state technology integrated into this equipment anywhere in the near future.

Why do people in the industry say things like this. It's real simple, produce a buzz of tubes becoming obsolete and we'll all go out and buy a lifetime supply of tubes. Its a pretty good marketing strategy. Go to the store and try and buy some ammo for your guns right now. Its the same principal, threaten to take it all away and we'll make sure and stock up why we still can.

Hey! I work in Nuclear Medicine (well, PET/CT now).

you don't hear a lot of people on forums with our jobs, haha.

 

[snowdog]

Rupe, I see you are pretty much sold on this idea considering you are delivering a beat-down on anyone who disagrees. Certainly Ritchie Fliegler is a respected man in the world of tube amps, but people have been wrong before. For now I'm filing this under "heard it on the internet".

 

[rupe]

All I know is that if AMT electronics comes out with solid state 12AX7 and EL34 replacement devices and they sound like the analog tubes I like, I'll be putting them in all my amps, my own and the ones I sell. The idea of never buying tubes again is attractive to me if the tone and feel I get with real tubes is there...

Steve

I have been tempted to try them out .... Some people say they sound great. Anyone that tries them I would like to hear their opinion. A tube that never needs to be replaced is very appealing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the AMT solid state devices are not available yet, right? So no one could have used them yet...

Anyone tried the Jet City RetroValves? Analog 12AX7 tube replacements... Interesting...

Steve

Anybody ever try these?

 

[Anonymous]

All I know is that if AMT electronics comes out with solid state 12AX7 and EL34 replacement devices and they sound like the analog tubes I like, I'll be putting them in all my amps, my own and the ones I sell. The idea of never buying tubes again is attractive to me if the tone and feel I get with real tubes is there...

Steve

I have been tempted to try them out .... Some people say they sound great. Anyone that tries them I would like to hear their opinion. A tube that never needs to be replaced is very appealing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the AMT solid state devices are not available yet, right? So no one could have used them yet...

Anyone tried the Jet City RetroValves? Analog 12AX7 tube replacements... Interesting...

Steve

Anybody ever try these?

Nope, but I went to website and looked at the amp configurations and it seems he only recommends his tube replacements in certain positions and recommends using regular vacuum tubes in others. If they are 12AX7 replacements, why wouldn't they work in any preamp position in a 12AX7 equipped amp?

Steve

 

[racerevlon]

Steve,

Talked to Doug today and have some RetroValves (Red/High Gain) on the way. Should have some feedback in a few days.

Consensus: What amp comparison does everyone want to see/hear first? Options are:

Jet City JCA100H
Jet City JCA100HDM
Jet City JCA22H
Splawn Quick Rod 2008
Splawn Quick Rod 2012
Splawn Nitro
Marshall Vintage Modern 2266
Hughes & Kettner TriAmp MK II
Hughes & Kettner Trilogy
Hughes & Kettner Switchblade 100C
Ceriatone Chupacabra 50
Ceriatone AFD #35
Marshall HAZE 40C

I think that's about all the amps either already running or easy enough to connect...

Speaker/Cab choice:

Marshall 1960A V30'S
Marshall 1960B Greenbacks
Marshall 425A/B
Splawn 2x12 Small Blocks
Splawn 4x12 Small Blocks
Jet City JCA24S w/Big Blocks (Splawn)
Jet City JCA24S+ with stock Eminence-OEM speakers (Legend-like)
Avatar 2x12 Vintage with Big Blocks
Epiphone 1x12 with Splawn Big Block
Studio 7 2x12 with Celestion G12H-80'S
Whitebox Engineering 2x12 with WGS ET65S (This cab has some major grindage!)

Again, I think that's all that's easily accessible. Might be able to include my singer's Mark IIC++ and/or Mark III Red Stripe. I reserve the right to remove something from candidacy if it becomes a pain in the @$$.

Majority rule...

 

[stephen sawall]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=128814&p=1498740&hilit=tube#p1498740

"stephen sawall ....
Pat did you notice any difference between these & the glass ? Feel, sound, whatever ....

I remember reading about these & then really did not hear any more. It is interesting.

mentoneman....
i always base ideal dirty marshally tone on NOS mullard ecc83s as the benchmark.
fat full mids and dynamic high, low mud factor. NOS ge 12ax7 for cleans

in the eggie and the carol ann, this wattgrinder reminded me of the mullard midrange and tight low end, but maybe not quite vocal in the high end but decent/solid...not hashy like many chinese and russian tubes i've used, or flooded in the mids/lows like jjs, just solid, smooth, and strong sounding, with no noise and the promise of never going microphonic or loosing it's steam.

and it also sounds great in my fender although in the scxd, "the first stage of the 12AX7 is simply a buffer. It takes the signal from the DSP and makes it stronger. The second stage of the 12AX7 is the phase inverter. It drives the 6V6s."

Strange enough I will be working tomorrow a few miles from Jet City .... but probably will not have time to stop over there.

 

[Anonymous]

Steve,

Talked to Doug today and have some RetroValves (Red/High Gain) on the way. Should have some feedback in a few days.

Consensus: What amp comparison does everyone want to see/hear first? Options are:

Jet City JCA100H
Jet City JCA100HDM
Jet City JCA22H
Splawn Quick Rod 2008
Splawn Quick Rod 2012
Splawn Nitro
Marshall Vintage Modern 2266
Hughes & Kettner TriAmp MK II
Hughes & Kettner Trilogy
Hughes & Kettner Switchblade 100C
Ceriatone Chupacabra 50
Ceriatone AFD #35
Marshall HAZE 40C

I think that's about all the amps either already running or easy enough to connect...

Speaker/Cab choice:

Marshall 1960A V30'S
Marshall 1960B Greenbacks
Marshall 425A/B
Splawn 2x12 Small Blocks
Splawn 4x12 Small Blocks
Jet City JCA24S w/Big Blocks (Splawn)
Jet City JCA24S+ with stock Eminence-OEM speakers (Legend-like)
Avatar 2x12 Vintage with Big Blocks
Epiphone 1x12 with Splawn Big Block
Studio 7 2x12 with Celestion G12H-80'S
Whitebox Engineering 2x12 with WGS ET65S (This cab has some major grindage!)

Again, I think that's all that's easily accessible. Might be able to include my singer's Mark IIC++ and/or Mark III Red Stripe. I reserve the right to remove something from candidacy if it becomes a pain in the @$$.

Majority rule...

I'd like to hear either Splawn Quickrod through the greenback Marshall 4-12. Did he tell you why he doesn't recommend using them in every preamp slot?

Steve

 

[stephen sawall]

racerevlon - I would be interested in the Mesa's ...or any of the amps actually.

 

[baron55]

Tubes will disappear someday maybe sooner or later. For the most part they are made in countries like China, Russia, and Slovenia where labor is cheap and there is some demand for other tubes, but that will change as well.

You hear reasons that tubes aren't made here are for environmental reasons, secret formulas, etc but that is not true. Our computes and gadgets are just as or more toxic to make, there is just plenty of money to make.

For example in 2009-2010 a company in Blackburn England who was a major producer of CRT screens decided to take their knowledge and tooling to redesign the 12AX7 to hopefully have another product line. The actually did and sold them for a short time. These tubes had more gain and clarity than any other tube I had heard.. NOS be dammed. They were about 30 to 40 bucks each and had a very long life cycle. The had some issue with micro-phonics with the first ones and solved it, and the next day literally, they lost there large CRT contract and closed shop. I was doing beta testing for them as was others. And the last 4 tubes I got from them were awesome.

My point Vacuum tubes today could be made to levels that would make NOS glass useless. With the computer and robotic technology we have, they could be made very consistent and very well. The problem is the short term profit verses investment capital makes no sense in today " what have you done for me today's business world"

Groove tubes Never made tubes here, this was confirmed by several Groove Tube employees after Fender Purchased them. They were made in China, GT bought some US tooling and sent it over to china. The first few 6L6GC and 6CA7 tubes they reintroduced said USA on them, but they had to immediate remove that after they were warned of severe penalties for hiding the source of manufacturer.

It is the current tube companies best interests not to make the tubes too good, so they can keep selling them to keep them in business.


But I do believe that tubes will slowly disappear.

The big corporate music companies will be the first since corporate profits and stock are primary

I worked with a engineer who works for Porsche in Germany, they had a meeting one day to discuss on changing the clutch lifespan from 80,000 to 60,000 miles!!!! It was lasting too long. They needed more people to replace them.........

 

[eljodon]

If it wasn't for the EPA, we wouldn't have to buy tubes from Russia and China!Abolish the EPA! They are bankrupting our country!LOL! I think everyone should save a % of their money and start stocking up on tubes. Find a room in your house and store them! I can see it in the future when you're on your last Quad of EL 34's! You'll be milking it so it can last! LOL!

The EPA is a needed agency but it has some serious flaws and needs to be revamped. It is run soely based on special interest and has swings any which way once lobbyists' start showing the money.

Would you like to have regulations lessened on water treatment so you contract different illnesses every other week? Would you like the soil that cattle graze on to be contaminated with different carcinogens that then are transferred into your body once you eat the livestock?

Monsanto Chemical Corp were injecting cattle with growth hormones (Canada) to expedite the shipment of milk and meat to US and Canadian customers to the point that individuals were becoming sick from contaminated meat and disease ridden milk. No
regulation in that market because there is sufficient lobbying power to sway them in the other direction.

In fact, most of the food you eat even with regulation is GMO (genetically modified). This includes produce, meat and fish. And even with regulation, the fish you eat for example is filled with toxics from polluted oceanic water.

Off topic for sure, but there are reasons for this.

The last reason why tubes are made in Russia and China is not because of Environmental regulations but because it costs way too much money to produce in America alone. This is why our half of our infrastructure has migrated to China alone. It costs them very little to make because no one is riding their coattails and to import is slightly less. We also reap a huge benefit by selling them domestically as opposed to manufacturing them here as well. We'd lose out if we did both.

Think of it this way. If American's were to build tubes and it costs us $15 dollars and we could only sell them for $20 we'd make $5 in profit. But if the chinese could build tubes for $5 and import them to the U.S (where we sell them for $20) we make $15 in profit and China may get a $5 dollar kickback for helping us and we still make $10 in profit.

Russia and China have an absolute advantage over us in tube production and we save a shit ton of money importing tubes to America/Britain and where ever else.

I was just joking just a bit. The EPA is needed but they have way to much power. In California some of the laws they have here are a bit to much. It's so difficult for companies to make a profit here, that they're leaving Ca. Was the use of having all this laws for the enviroment when other countries are not doing anything about it. What they're doing also will affects us in time regardless if we all drove electric cars!