Ty Tabor Rackmount EQ

[MisterBulbous]

Hey Krinkle. How about some details on that pre-amp? I'm curious to see what it's about.

 

[Jeff Hilligan]

Hey Krinkle. How about some details on that pre-amp? I'm curious to see what it's about.

That would be the mystery settings that I have for the amp!

 

[MisterBulbous]

Hey Krinkle. How about some details on that pre-amp? I'm curious to see what it's about.

That would be the mystery settings that I have for the amp!

LOL. The search for gretchen tone is always a mystery but some of you guys are getting close.

 

[Rushtallica]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm not desperately looking for this eq. I'm just putting together a "Gretchen" rig and I was thinking about adding an eq.

It looks to me like it is set mostly flat except for the highest frequencies. So he's basically trying to get rid of some hiss. There is a fair bit of hiss with the rig I have and I was thinking of doing the same. Of course any eq would do, and I could probably find better but I'll keep poking around to see if I can figure out what this one is. I did quite a bit of searching last night but it didn't turn up. I have the 95 GP mag where Ty states that he boosted 250Hz and below with a graphic eq, but that was because the L5's bass was "nasty", and this rack has the DR so it wasn't needed I guess.

I have as close as I believe I can get to a Gretchen rack, I'm just thinking about whether I should get a noise gate type of device or go with a cheap eq just for kicks.

Right now my signal chain is;

MIM strat converted into an Elite->L5 preamp (using preamp only)->Alesis Midiverb II (preset 62)->splits stereo out of the MVII to two Ibanez DD-200 delays->Crown Micro-Tech 600 power amp->Peavey 412MS cab wired stereo

The tone is pretty much exactly like GGTN, but there is some hiss and I'm thinking that I should be able to cut some of it.

I converted a MIM I had lying around, I bought 3 Elite pickups off eBay and made the preamp circuit board. I modified a regular pickguard to fit the PUPs and I routed out underneath to fit the preamp. At first I had a regular audio volume pot but I wasn't easily getting the exact clean roll off that Ty gets. A quick search (which I should have done before I wired the guitar) and I found that Fender still sells the same pot, so I ordered 2 (1 spare and to play around with and investigate the taper). I'm going to install it soon, but I am having too much fun plaing and enjoying the tone. The slightly different taper on the pot just means that I have to be a little more deliberate when I roll it off to find the sweet spot. With the current taper it passes through the sweet zone too fast and you have to do smaller adjustments to get to the right spot.

Being that the Elite strats had push buttons for switching instead of a 5-way selector, I was wondering if the same switching system is important, as well... like if the bridge and neck might be used together for some of the tones.

Very cool to hear what you've done, and that guy in the video had me looking for an L5 for a while.

 

[Krinkle]

Hey Krinkle, How is that Ibanez Satriani guitar I sold you? I think it was for your brother actually...Hope he is still enjoying it ! That's been a long time

Hey Jason! My Brother still has, and LOVES, that guitar. I knew as soon as I saw it that it was the one for him. Good to hear from you!

 

[Krinkle]

I'm sure this is a dumb question, but is there a modern-day substitute or clone of the Fender Elite pickup system?

I read once where Ty said that P90's were the only "normal" pick up that he liked through a Lab Series. I agree...P90's are the only pups I like through my L5. Those elite pups are notoriously noisy.

I'm starting to think about a "gretchen" rig. As much as I LOVE King's X, I've never really tried to emulate his tone, but some of these YouTube demos sound so damn close. I actually have a Les Paul with P90's and I've never even plugged it into my amp! Maybe that's a good place to start

Yeah give it a shot. I think a strat style guitar with p90's will give something closer to Ty but honestly I could have his exact rig and I'll never sound like him. That said the L5's with the right guitar/ pick ups and used a a preamp is a unique sounding rig.

I've already tried multiple P90's, I love them, but they are pretty different. Not heard them thru an L series though, that would be a big factor. There is somthing about the Elite's that match up to those preamps amazingly well, I remember Ty saying they were very microphonic, to the point of being annoying, but they sounded great. If the Elite's are single coils, there has to be somthing to the preamp that Kringle was talking about that really makes things get into that unusually sweet spot

The preamp is very key. It brings the mids out perfectly and also allows the volume pot to clean up really well, moreso than a passive circuit.

 

[sandman]

Hey Krinkle, How is that Ibanez Satriani guitar I sold you? I think it was for your brother actually...Hope he is still enjoying it ! That's been a long time

Hey Jason! My Brother still has, and LOVES, that guitar. I knew as soon as I saw it that it was the one for him. Good to hear from you!

 

[Krinkle]

Hey Krinkle. How about some details on that pre-amp? I'm curious to see what it's about.

The preamp circuit schematic and layout is available on the net, I don't have the link handy but it is easy to find. Basically it works this way;

1st stage:
Any of the pickup combinations into a transistor buffer circuit (the fender TBX tone control is connected between the input of the preamp to ground)

1st stage:
Dummy coil out of phase into a transistor buffer circuit

The outputs of these 2 stages are mixed and fed into the volume pot control. The dummy coil is out of phase so any noise is theoretically equal and opposite of the pickups and is cancelled.

The volume pot output is fed into a transistor mid boost circuit.

The output of the mid boost circuit and the output of the volume pot are sent into a "mid boost" mix pot, which can output the full signal coming out of the mid boost circuit (10), the full signal coming out of the 1st buffers (0), or a mix of both(anywhere between 0 and 10).

 

[Krinkle]

Hey Krinkle. How about some details on that pre-amp? I'm curious to see what it's about.

That would be the mystery settings that I have for the amp!

The settings from the 95 GP are dead on, plus the Youtube videos of the TT interview show the same settings.

 

[Krinkle]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm not desperately looking for this eq. I'm just putting together a "Gretchen" rig and I was thinking about adding an eq.

It looks to me like it is set mostly flat except for the highest frequencies. So he's basically trying to get rid of some hiss. There is a fair bit of hiss with the rig I have and I was thinking of doing the same. Of course any eq would do, and I could probably find better but I'll keep poking around to see if I can figure out what this one is. I did quite a bit of searching last night but it didn't turn up. I have the 95 GP mag where Ty states that he boosted 250Hz and below with a graphic eq, but that was because the L5's bass was "nasty", and this rack has the DR so it wasn't needed I guess.

I have as close as I believe I can get to a Gretchen rack, I'm just thinking about whether I should get a noise gate type of device or go with a cheap eq just for kicks.

Right now my signal chain is;

MIM strat converted into an Elite->L5 preamp (using preamp only)->Alesis Midiverb II (preset 62)->splits stereo out of the MVII to two Ibanez DD-200 delays->Crown Micro-Tech 600 power amp->Peavey 412MS cab wired stereo

The tone is pretty much exactly like GGTN, but there is some hiss and I'm thinking that I should be able to cut some of it.

I converted a MIM I had lying around, I bought 3 Elite pickups off eBay and made the preamp circuit board. I modified a regular pickguard to fit the PUPs and I routed out underneath to fit the preamp. At first I had a regular audio volume pot but I wasn't easily getting the exact clean roll off that Ty gets. A quick search (which I should have done before I wired the guitar) and I found that Fender still sells the same pot, so I ordered 2 (1 spare and to play around with and investigate the taper). I'm going to install it soon, but I am having too much fun plaing and enjoying the tone. The slightly different taper on the pot just means that I have to be a little more deliberate when I roll it off to find the sweet spot. With the current taper it passes through the sweet zone too fast and you have to do smaller adjustments to get to the right spot.

Being that the Elite strats had push buttons for switching instead of a 5-way selector, I was wondering if the same switching system is important, as well... like if the bridge and neck might be used together for some of the tones.

Very cool to hear what you've done, and that guy in the video had me looking for an L5 for a while.

I wondered the same thing but so far, it's always the bridge and middle pickups together.

 

[Jeff Hilligan]

Hey Krinkle. How about some details on that pre-amp? I'm curious to see what it's about.

That would be the mystery settings that I have for the amp!

The settings from the 95 GP are dead on, plus the Youtube videos of the TT interview show the same settings.

I just know cause I played a lab with his elite at his house when I was developing his Gretchen Module when I was at Egnater! PU's are a 12 db boost and the first piece to the puzzle before it hits all the stuff in line to stop the noise of the PU's. Then it's into the lab! To curb the noise he went to Zion with the Joe Barden PU's and rackmounted the Elites guts. Again part of the killer tone on Dogman!
I own that pre amp! Its a cool tone coloring piece with other guitars! And to boot his statement about the sound might be because on side of the amp was blown up. He never looked into it but at some point the amp sounded really good and up till that point was just an ok amp!

 

[JTyson]

Hey Krinkle. How about some details on that pre-amp? I'm curious to see what it's about.

That would be the mystery settings that I have for the amp!

The settings from the 95 GP are dead on, plus the Youtube videos of the TT interview show the same settings.

I just know cause I played a lab with his elite at his house when I was developing his Gretchen Module when I was at Egnater! PU's are a 12 db boost and the first piece to the puzzle before it hits all the stuff in line to stop the noise of the PU's. Then it's into the lab! To curb the noise he went to Zion with the Joe Barden PU's and rackmounted the Elites guts. Again part of the killer tone on Dogman!
I own that pre amp! Its a cool tone coloring piece with other guitars! And to boot his statement about the sound might be because on side of the amp was blown up. He never looked into it but at some point the amp sounded really good and up till that point was just an ok amp!

DAM Just when we were all closer than we've ever been
I'm wondering at this point how you factor in something that blew up and made it sound better
Didint Ty say it was something in the output section of the amp?
Jeff, you are ROYALTY for god's sakes.. May I kiss your hand? The hand that has actually touched the actual L5 that Ty had
I mean that in a non-homosexual way, of course

 

[JTyson]

So all this time I've been thinking the percussive nature of his tone was a single coil taking signal from one spot on the strings (as opposed to a HB taking it from two spots) and now I find out he was using the bridge and middle pups together. Makes sense as far as the fatness of his tone goes, but blows my uninformed theory into the weeds.
I am but a lowly retard Kringle is going about this masterfully Thank you so much for the info, and Jeff too
This thread is GOLD

 

[MisterBulbous]

I've seen the schematics here, but it's a little beyond my electrical comprehension (at this time).

http://eledar.net/Music/walnelite/index.htm

 

[jwnc]

Wow.. great thread. I have been a fan since Gretchen came out and always thought his early tone was one of the most unique sounds out there. Its amazing how close some of gotten, almost makes me want to find a lab and try to fake it!

Jason

 

[jwnc]

How does the preamp/pickups sound into another kind of amp?

 

[Krinkle]

Hey Krinkle. How about some details on that pre-amp? I'm curious to see what it's about.

That would be the mystery settings that I have for the amp!

The settings from the 95 GP are dead on, plus the Youtube videos of the TT interview show the same settings.

I just know cause I played a lab with his elite at his house when I was developing his Gretchen Module when I was at Egnater! PU's are a 12 db boost and the first piece to the puzzle before it hits all the stuff in line to stop the noise of the PU's. Then it's into the lab! To curb the noise he went to Zion with the Joe Barden PU's and rackmounted the Elites guts. Again part of the killer tone on Dogman!
I own that pre amp! Its a cool tone coloring piece with other guitars! And to boot his statement about the sound might be because on side of the amp was blown up. He never looked into it but at some point the amp sounded really good and up till that point was just an ok amp!

Wow, I knew you did some of that stuff but I didn't know you were at his place, cool! So were the settings on his Lab the same as the Alien Beans settings in the 6 part interview? At at 0:18 in the link below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1ozXivH ... ure=relmfu

I'm using those settings and they are KILLER.

I knew that you owned that preamp, can't remember if I hassled you to take pics of the inside. Any chance?

I don't know if you remember but I was bugging my Brother to buy your L5 chassis but he backed out, still have it? if you're still selling it, somebody should scoop it up that was a very fair price.

By the way, I still have the Intelliverb you sold me and it works and sounds great!

Darrin

 

[Krinkle]

So all this time I've been thinking the percussive nature of his tone was a single coil taking signal from one spot on the strings (as opposed to a HB taking it from two spots) and now I find out he was using the bridge and middle pups together. Makes sense as far as the fatness of his tone goes, but blows my uninformed theory into the weeds.
I am but a lowly retard Kringle is going about this masterfully Thank you so much for the info, and Jeff too
This thread is GOLD

Scunion on Youtube uses the same position, that's why I did too. It sounds right to me. I didn't know what position Ty was using either, but when you get it in your hands, it becomes pretty evident.

The tone changes a LOT when you roll back the volume pot. It changes from pretty thick to crysal clear as you back it off from 10 to 5. The tones in between are flat out glorious. I'm finding that Ty must have moved his volume pot around a LOT. Very subtle movements, but it wasn't all 10 for rhythm and leads and back it off to 5 or 6 for clean.

Black Flag, for example, is not at 10 for the rhythm, that would be too fuzzy. I back off the volume a little and the tone becomes really chunky, and if you pick a little lighter you can get those clear notes too (not he middle section, but the ones just before each verse), without moving the volume pot again. Then you back the volume pot back some more for the middle section and it is clean, but nice and crisp, just like the intro to Pleiades. Put the volume on 10, it's the Summerland solo 100%.

The mid boost pot changes the tone a lot too. At 10 it is very thick, and you need to have the TBX tone on 10 to make it bright enough so it's not muddy. If you start backing off the mid boost, it will start to clean up the tone. You can see the effect here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj1U5DKmpPg

At around 1:24 you can see him reach down and back the mid boost off to get a cleaner tone.

Let's just say there are a LOT of different tones available, you just have to play around with the knobs.

I have the guitar taken apart right now, I'm putting the correct Fender volume pot in so I don't have to spend as much time adjusting to get the right tone. I'm also putting in the BPSSC noiseless system as I didn't get the Elite dummy coil when I bought the pickups, and it is NOISY! I should have it done in a day or 2.

I got my camera working again so I will make a clip soon. It's just a crappy digital camera that can take movies but it's enough to give an idea of the tone.

 

[Krinkle]

How does the preamp/pickups sound into another kind of amp?

I have the guitar disassembled right now. I'll let you know when I get it put back together.

 

[Pulsonic]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm not desperately looking for this eq. I'm just putting together a "Gretchen" rig and I was thinking about adding an eq.

MIM strat converted into an Elite->L5 preamp (using preamp only)->Alesis Midiverb II (preset 62)->splits stereo out of the MVII to two Ibanez DD-200 delays->Crown Micro-Tech 600 power amp->Peavey 412MS cab wired stereo

The tone is pretty much exactly like GGTN, but there is some hiss and I'm thinking that I should be able to cut some of it.

I converted a MIM I had lying around, I bought 3 Elite pickups off eBay and made the preamp circuit board. I modified a regular pickguard to fit the PUPs and I routed out underneath to fit the preamp. At first I had a regular audio volume pot but I wasn't easily getting the exact clean roll off that Ty gets. A quick search (which I should have done before I wired the guitar) and I found that Fender still sells the same pot, so I ordered 2 (1 spare and to play around with and investigate the taper). I'm going to install it soon, but I am having too much fun plaing and enjoying the tone. The slightly different taper on the pot just means that I have to be a little more deliberate when I roll it off to find the sweet spot. With the current taper it passes through the sweet zone too fast and you have to do smaller adjustments to get to the right spot.

Seem to recall Ty spec'd the same on the Zion Tabor Sig from Ken Hoover - Sounds like from ur comments that the genesis of that was baked into the original Elite pot. Is the taper 'quicker' - ie. for swells like TT does, etc. ?

Wish there was a consumer market Gretchen pedal - the TBX,L5-pre all in one box like Ty's post-rig. I know many diy's out there.
Has anyone profiled/I.R.'d it yet ?