UPDATED - Should I buy This Amp? (Bogner guys please chime in)

[angelspade]

I've been considering a Bogner 101B for quite some time and one showed up recently in near mint condition, wheat face grill with the A / B option at what appears to be a decent price. I've never owned one, but have always found something really appealing about the vids / clips of this amp. The mids have something special, they don't seem to sit low (like a Mesa Recto or Diezel Herbert) or high (like a Marshall or ENGL), but right in the middle...and there's just this kind of swirling, chewy, complexity that seems hard to describe. Here are my questions:

- What should I be paying?

- How does it sound at reasonable living room volumes? (I understand almost all amps sound better opened up a bit)

-I know it's not a ultra "tight" amp, but is it tight enough for fast palm mutes when dialed in correctly?

-Is there enough gain for metal? (listening the Zan Amps demo, it certainly seems there is, but I want to hear real world opinions from the board)

-What speakers pair best with this amp for hard rock and metal applications?

Any and all thoughts appreciated, thanks guys.

 

[ChurchHill]

I'd say go for it. If it turns out it's not your thing, you won't lose much on resale.

Price would depend on year and condition (near mint). If it's recent (<10 years), I'd say around $2500, but I haven't really been in the market for one, so that's just a rough guess.

Yeah, it's definitely tight enough for fast chugs, at least for me. I don't get much heavier than early thrash. Takes EQs and ODs well, too.

Plenty of gain for metal. The real strength of the XTC is the singing leads and the dynamic mid/high gain, but it makes a fantastic metal amp.

I've had good luck with V30s, which IIRC is what comes in the cabs it was designed for. It's also great with Greenbacks and G12-65s.

For me, the XTC is one of the greatest amps of all time. It's my favorite lead voice. Definitely has its own voice, swirling, chewy complexity is a good way to describe it. It won't replace my Herbert, Jose, UL, SLO, or MkIII, but those amps can't do what the XTC does, either.

 

[skoora]

You're probably looking at higher 2K's to 3K these days. The Class A option is not as common and may or may not garner extra as a lot of people don't care about it. Personally I like it and would look for one that has it.
You could always look up sale history on Reverb but there's never too many for sale at any given time so the pool is always small.
I would say if you saw what you wanted for closer to 2500, don't hesitate because that would probably go pretty quick. Prices may come down if the 104 gains traction as the next best thing from Bogner.

I would say yes to all the thoughts on using it for metal. Just get the Presence up there.

 

[Nigel]

You're probably looking at higher 2K's to 3K these days. The Class A option is not as common and may or may not garner extra as a lot of people don't care about it. Personally I like it and would look for one that has it.
You could always look up sale history on Reverb but there's never too many for sale at any given time so the pool is always small.
I would say if you saw what you wanted for closer to 2500, don't hesitate because that would probably go pretty quick. Prices may come down if the 104 gains traction as the next best thing from Bogner.

I would say yes to all the thoughts on using to for metal. Just get the Presence up there.

Cathode Bias (“Class A”) mode is awesome.

 

[Rackman]

I think they're good amps. I know there's a complicated history of model changes to the 101B, but I don't know the details. Just that they're not all the same by any means.

I think the Zen amps demo is representative of what they're like. Everyone who says crank the presence is right - think of 3:00 as the center of the knob.

V30s seem to be the primary speaker choice. I have a 104BV and that's what I use and I can't see myself going to H creambacks or anything.

 

[angelspade]

I think the Zen amps demo is representative of what they're like. Everyone who says crank the presence is right - think of 3:00 as the center of the knob.

Yeah...I feel like this metal tone (4:55) particularly the midrange character is something that I have been chasing as it seems fairly unique to the Bogner 101B:

 

[Jccobb2]

If it’s 2500 or less just buy it. You can flip it at that price with no effort. Fucking amazing amp that takes a bit to learn.

Blue channel, boost on, structure loose, new style, class ab, bright 1, bass and mid around noon, treble at 2 o’clock.

If that doesn’t make your pants tight than move it along. That’s as good as it gets.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

- How does it sound at reasonable living room volumes? (I understand almost all amps sound better opened up a bit)

101B's have some of the best Master volumes around. They sound great at sub-TV volume.

-I know it's not a ultra "tight" amp, but is it tight enough for fast palm mutes when dialed in correctly?

Depends on your playing. They're not what I'd call the same level of modern and tight as the amps coming out these days, but if you have a strong right hand, you can get some good articulation out of an Ecstasy. But a good EQ pedal in front to cut lows will tighten it up a lot either way, hah.

-Is there enough gain for metal? (listening the Zan Amps demo, it certainly seems there is, but I want to hear real world opinions from the board)

Yes. Red channel in High structure mode and Gain boost on with B2 bright switch enabled, again along with a bass cutting eq pedal, will be plenty for metal.

-What speakers pair best with this amp for hard rock and metal applications?

Depends on what you like. Generally though, V30's and Greenbacks work great with the XTC.


101B Red channel boosted with a GE-7 in front. There's also EVH style pitch shift and probably some mid cutting EQ in post but here you go:



101B Red channel, gain boost on, double tracked. I don't remember everything else going on with the chain, maybe there was a GE-7 boosting but not totally sure. Probably some post EQ as well.

 

[Scot]

-Is there enough gain for metal? (listening the Zan Amps demo, it certainly seems there is, but I want to hear real world opinions from the board)

Yes. Red channel in High structure mode and Gain boost on with B2 bright switch enabled, again along with a bass cutting eq pedal, will be plenty for metal.

100%

Those saying crank the presence is the way. Also, you'll find w/the xtc that you'll be cutting more bass than you think. Bass response increases w/gain on the xtc and the bright switches are nullified w/gain maxed. Don't be afraid of treble, mids and bright guitars w/the xtc. Be patient after getting it, you'll love it I'm sure. The xtc's very responsive to tube changes and it's a dream amp. Get it.

edited to add: I paid 2350.00 for mine 20 yrs ago - zero regret.

 

[Scot]

As I recall reading somewhere the 101b was voiced w/v30's and a strat (using RFT power tubes?). Mine came stock w/perfectly matched JJ Teslas installed & I've been playing a les paul-esque neck-thru super strat for yrs. Only in the last few yrs have I gotten a 'real' strat (maple board). Big eye-opener it's been and now I'm slowly building my strat around my xtc specifically - beautiful full cleans on the neck but punchy, nasty and bright high mids on the bridge is what I'm after - lean and mean & greasy w/a soft and warm stratty side. The xtc delivers and I'm still finding new sounds w/it so I can def say the xtc's grown w/my tastes and it definitely sounds better as my playing improves, of course. Not sure what more one could want and it's a superb amp on all channels. I've never played a Diezel or Soldano or Wizard or alot of other amps.

 

[legend71]

My fav amp of all time. I advise you to do it. Its awesome

 

[angelspade]

101B Red channel boosted with a GE-7 in front. There's also EVH style pitch shift and probably some mid cutting EQ in post but here you go:



101B Red channel, gain boost on, double tracked. I don't remember everything else going on with the chain, maybe there was a GE-7 boosting but not totally sure. Probably some post EQ as well.

Sounds great...Both of those clips have that mid-grind thing that is drawing me to this amp

 

[ChurchHill]

Yeah, the Bogner mids are really great. I think all Bogners have that in common, some more so than others, with the XTC being the epitome.

There's this thing it does, it's so harmonically rich that it sounds vocal without even trying. I'd heard that sound for years, always thought it was the player and that I'd never be that good. When I got the XTC, it was just there. It's so expressive.

This isn't the same thing, and this isn't metal, but this is the video that finally pushed me over the edge. It doesn't even have to be very loud to do this. It's just inspiring and incredibly fun to play.

 

[rsm]

IDK about the XTC; but I have a Helios Eclipse which I think sounds great.

 

[ChurchHill]

I've got the OG Helios, and it sounds like what Bogner claimed, the modded Marshall greatest hits. It's the most Marshall-like, but still; has some of those singing mids that the XTC does. It doesn't sound like the Jose, but it's in the same league. That's another great Bogner, but if I could only have one, it would be the XTC.

 

[angelspade]

I've got the OG Helios, and it sounds like what Bogner claimed, the modded Marshall greatest hits. It's the most Marshall-like, but still; has some of those singing mids that the XTC does. It doesn't sound like the Jose, but it's in the same league. That's another great Bogner, but if I could only have one, it would be the XTC.

Can I ask...What puts the XTC above the Helios for you? Is it the richness?

 

[ChurchHill]

Yeah, the complexity of the harmonic overtones, very rich, very expressive, and much more versatile than the Helios. I love the Helios, too, and while it sounds like a Bogner, it's really a Marshall. It's raw and unrefined. The XTC can be raw and aggressive, too, but is so much more.

Put another way, both amps inspire me, but the XTC inspires me more, both by making me sound like a better player than I am and by pushing me to become a better player so I can take full advantage of what it can do. Mark series amps do that for me, too, but in a very different way.

 

[angelspade]

Yeah, the complexity of the harmonic overtones, very rich, very expressive,

That's what I'm hearing as well...Price is good, think I may have to pull the trigger.

 

[tricalibur]

I have an Uber Ultra and Ive played an XTC briefly at bedroom volume. Much like a Soldano, Diezel or Friedman, the Bogners have their own thing they all seem to do. It’s really hard not like plugging into one. Sort if a universally pleasing tone that most seem to like. Less divisive than say an SLO or VH4 may be. The Ultra is more modern and aggressive than the XTC, which begged for 80s riffs and searing leads.

 

[angelspade]

Thank you ALL for your input on this, Greatly appreciated. I just spoke with the seller and it looks like we made a deal. Incoming new amp day tonight or tomorrow...As always, will keep you posted.