V30 vs EV Force 12

[7704A]

I've been wondering about sound differences between clips I record and clips youtubers record, and have been considering picking up a set of V30's to use as a reference point to compare my rig and their rigs. I was also worried that my EV's might be worn and in need of a re-cone, and figured comparing to a V30 would help tell. So, when a pair of 8 ohm V30'spopped up locally for a reasonable price, I nabbed 'em. Below are two clips. One is the detuned 4x12 with EV Force 12's, and the other is with the two Vintage 30's instead. Just phone in front of the cab until I get time to properly mic 'em after the holidays.




I think I prefer the Force 12's. And I don't think my speakers are significantly worn anymore. We'll see how things change once mic'd.

 

[Mike Oxhuge]

V30 by a mile for me. But Greenbacks would be even better as they are my favorite

 

[Rackman]

I didn't feel like that was the V30s best showing. Lots of variables though.

 

[7704A]

V30 by a mile for me. But Greenbacks would be even better as they are my favorite

Interesting. When I listen to the V30's my reaction is to turn my nose up. All band-passed and lacking definition to me.

I didn't feel like that was the V30s best showing. Lots of variables though.

Agreed. What variables do you have in mind? Top of my list is the position of the phone mic. No attempt was made to control it other than sitting in roughly the same spot with the phone in roughly the same position. Volume would be another one. I tried to normalize the loudness, but string bleed can screw with that.

 

[7704A]

Ok, got a better-quality clip of the V30's to compare to one of my better Force 12 clips. Unfortunately the playing is sloppy and I broke a string before I could clean it up, or increase the amp volume above string bleed. That really will have to wait until after the holidays.

V30:


Force 12:


Both clips are of the two 8 ohm speakers in the top of my Peavey XXX slant 4x12 with the bottom two holes left open, and the mics are a stereo PZM wedge with the HF rise flattened in post. The cab has mitchell donut beam blockers.

 

[Rackman]

I think having open holes in the cab (effectively the world's largest ports) is probably having a big effect on what's going on here.

That said the new clips seem to show the V30 in a more favorable light.

 

[7704A]

I think having open holes in the cab (effectively the world's largest ports) is probably having a big effect on what's going on here.

What effect do you think they're having? Along these lines I have some older clips comparing fully loaded to half loaded cabs like these. I'll post when I can. My recollection is that the low mids get fuller and the top gets smoother.

That said the new clips seem to show the V30 in a more favorable light.

Definitely better than the phone clips. Easier for me to see why some people might prefer it, with the more forward voicing that a friend described as "in your face."

 

[Rackman]

I would expect the cab would move in the direction of behaving like an open back cab since total opening size is on par with the missing back panel on most cabinets. But presumably the port sound coming out would go forwards not backwards like it does with a fender type cab. Depending on the recording technique that port sound might or might not get captured much.

In terms of V30 voicing, I think they're "in your face" in some frequencies but not necessarily overall. The Force 12 has a high-mid thing going on in some of these clips that might be nice in a normal cabinet.

 

[7704A]

Schools' out. Moved the Force 12's into my Carvin Legacy 4x12 slant, and the EVM 12S into boxes. They really were worn, and the congested quality that comes with that was getting on my nerves. Can't wait until I get my re-coned 12S' back from California, they should banish that.

Anyhow, now I have a Peavey XXX 4x12 with two 8 ohm V30's up top and mitchell donuts, and the Carvin 4x12 mentioned above, also with mitchell donuts. We'll see how long it takes me to get around to a proper back-to-back comparison.

 

[7704A]

Off to Ace Hardware to buy some door hinges 'n screws so that I don't have to keep rebuilding my stereo mic array (PZM wedge) with painters tape each time I record comparisons. Should make it easier to get everything recorded sooner.

 

[DanTravis62]

They are different speakers that are generally for different purposes.

Force 12s, like the 12S and 12L, excel at versatility - both in tonal situations, and hardware/gear situations.

V30s kill at full stage volume, cutting through in a band mix - either live or on a recording.

In your clips I prefer the V30, but there's plenty of situations where I would take the EVs

After collecting every speaker and cabinet imaginable for decades, after the dust settled, I have a 4x12 with V30s and a 1x12 with a 12L in my stable for a reason.

 

[VonBonfire]

They are different speakers that are generally for different purposes.

Force 12s, like the 12S and 12L, excel at versatility - both in tonal situations, and hardware/gear situations.

V30s kill at full stage volume, cutting through in a band mix - either live or on a recording.

In your clips I prefer the V30, but there's plenty of situations where I would take the EVs

After collecting every speaker and cabinet imaginable for decades, after the dust settled, I have a 4x12 with V30s and a 1x12 with a 12L in my stable for a reason.

I think he's doing some lower volume experiments as I feel like I'm hearing his strings acoustically in the first clips. IME the Force 12s get a bigger and more open sounding when you put the juice to them. I'd love to try some vintage 30's in my Twin but I'd likely smoke them in short order. Maybe I do need a Quad Reverb.

 

[DanTravis62]

I think he's doing some lower volume experiments as I feel like I'm hearing his strings acoustically in the first clips. IME the Force 12s get a bigger and more open sounding when you put the juice to them. I'd love to try some vintage 30's in my Twin but I'd likely smoke them in short order. Maybe I do need a Quad Reverb.

Unless your twins are post 77 (with the "ultra linear" trannies" V30s can handle a twin just fine.

Even a post 77 twin is right on the edge of 2 v30s power handling

Drip edge are 85 watts and the decade after are 100 flat IIRC, and V30s are rated (rather conservatively) at 60w each. Lots of the old OEM V30s are rated at 70w, which is how I know it's a conservative rating.

As long as they are broken in? They could handle your twin cranked all day

 

[VonBonfire]

Unless your twins are post 77 (with the "ultra linear" trannies" V30s can handle a twin just fine.

Even a post 77 twin is right on the edge of 2 v30s power handling

Drip edge are 85 watts and the decade after are 100 flat IIRC, and V30s are rated (rather conservatively) at 60w each. Lots of the old OEM V30s are rated at 70w, which is how I know it's a conservative rating.

As long as they are broken in? They could handle your twin cranked all day

Maybe. I've blown about a half dozen D120's which are also rated at around 50 or 60 watts. I quit using them because it meant reconing at least one every six months so I always had a third on hand as a spare for that reason. My well broke in k120 died last year while it was paired with a force 12. I might get a couple years out of v30's before one of them pops off. I had a guy in my area that did reasonably priced quality recones but he died in 2019.

 

[DanTravis62]

Maybe. I've blown about a half dozen D120's which are also rated at around 50 or 60 watts. I quit using them because it meant reconing at least one every six months so I always had a third on hand as a spare for that reason. My well broke in k120 died last year while it was paired with a force 12. I might get a couple years out of v30's before one of them pops off. I had a guy in my area that did reasonably priced quality recones but he died in 2019.

Sad, good reconers are hard to find

IME V30s are pretty tough as far as handling high spls - i've blown cones on a bunch of d120s as well, but i've owned the same quad of V30s for almost 20 years and have never blown one once

 

[VonBonfire]

Sad, good reconers are hard to find

IME V30s are pretty tough as far as handling high spls - i've blown cones on a bunch of d120s as well, but i've owned the same quad of V30s for almost 20 years and have never blown one once

Yeah he was a chill dude but probably didn't take the best care of himself. His house was littered with cig butts all over but he was also a person with a large pole barn full of every sort of speaker, frames, and recone kits. He really knew his business. I think he was charging me $110 each at the time which was pretty reasonable considering the JBL kits were like $80-85.

I'll keep the v30's in mind but tbh I wanna get a 2nd K-120 and have the blown one reconed because they are just killer in a Twin with an ES (so were the D's). Asides that I'd probably grab eminence em12 neos for the weight savings. The demos on them sound pretty good....

 

[DanTravis62]

Yeah he was a chill dude but probably didn't take the best care of himself. His house was littered with cig butts all over but he was also a person with a large pole barn full of every sort of speaker, frames, and recone kits. He really knew his business. I think he was charging me $110 each at the time which was pretty reasonable considering the JBL kits were like $80-85.

I'll keep the v30's in mind but tbh I wanna get a 2nd K-120 and have the blown one reconed because they are just killer in a Twin with an ES (so were the D's). Asides that I'd probably grab eminence em12 neos for the weight savings. The demos on them sound pretty good....

No replacement for displacement IME, but blues tones are a different ballgame so idk the neos might work

I have not had good results from any neo, but obviously i play way different tones

 

[VonBonfire]

No replacement for displacement IME, but blues tones are a different ballgame so idk the neos might work

I have not had good results from any neo, but obviously i play way different tones

Here's the demo I'm going off of below. They seem to have a little less bass response to my ears than the EVM but I'm pretty sure I could live with that. Otherwise they seemed pretty similar and they are 6.6lbs each. I dunno....the K-120's are working their way up the list of my gear priorities but they are well over $300 buck apiece now I just don't wanna let the one I got go so I need to kick it back into action sometime soon.

 

[7704A]

In your clips I prefer the V30, but there's plenty of situations where I would take the EVs

Yeah, after getting the V30's and EV's side-by-side with beam blockers on both cabs, I can see how it might come down to preference. The Force (and 12S) are still the ones that make me smile when I strum an open D chord though. Do you have any clips showing the situations where you'd use each, or using one in a situation you'd really rather not?

I think he's doing some lower volume experiments as I feel like I'm hearing his strings acoustically in the first clips.

Those first clips were definitely low volume. The clip of the Force's where you can't hear (as much) string noise I had the volume up higher, but still at a level where I wasn't too worried about neighbors. School's out though, and a friend just got a house with a detached cinder-block workshop, so I hope to get loud soon.

I also just super-glued some hinges onto the PZM baffles, so it should be much easier to setup/teardown for comparisons and feasible to get them done in smaller pockets of time.

 

[DanTravis62]

Yeah, after getting the V30's and EV's side-by-side with beam blockers on both cabs, I can see how it might come down to preference. The Force (and 12S) are still the ones that make me smile when I strum an open D chord though. Do you have any clips showing the situations where you'd use each, or using one in a situation you'd really rather not?

I could do a comparison if you really want one, but it would take some time to get everything set up?

It also depends on what types of mics you have and what exactly you would want to hear. I would most likely do a simple 57 on cone to show the differences or something, but there's a million clips of both on youtube - I guess I would wanna nail down exactly what you're trying to hear before going through all the effort of setting my stuff up. Just so I don't waste a bunch of time micing something that you could easily hear already on youtube.

As for as the situations:

Generally speaking, I love the versatility of the EV style speakers in situations where I need to cover a lot of tones. IMO, they don't sound as good in a metal setting as the V30s, but say if you were in a progressive type band that had a ton of clean sections and edge-of-breakup tones? the EV is so much better at those types of tones that it makes up for it. They are one of the types of speakers that sound amazing with a marshall or recto, and then also sound amazing with a bassman or HC30. Any situation that requires a wider variety of tones, EVs always shine because they are simply flatter EQ wise so they make cleaner tones sound amazing.

Conversely, V30s have a specific midrange spike that absolutely dices through a band mix - and doubly so if there are two guitarists. That's why they are so loved by people in heavy genres. If you're playing metal, or punk, either live with a band or on a recording, they will nearly always be the better choice because they cut through so much more in a dense mix. Obviously if your band isn't that "dense" sounding or doesn't use that much gain? Or you are the only guitarist in your band, so there's more sonic "space"? Now the math becomes much different.