W/D/W Rig with a Mixer

[LiveHardDieFree]

2) Dry level in parallel path has to sit on equal footing with effect levels, or else the effects will drown out the dry component, leaving an overly wet output from the looper, which you don't notice until using the looper, at which point the dry cab is dropped out.

I'm finding, to get this balance at the looper input, the effects need killdry set to off and the effects mix (level) needs to be turned down.

Interesting stuff. I'm a bit confused as to why you need the looper between the mixer and power amp. Can you explain why you need it?

It seems to me that the whole point of the mixer is to get a pristine dry sound from your amp mixed in parallel at the appropriate level with the effected sounds. If you turn off killdry on your effects and have an effects mix that isn't 100%, you are mixing in D/A and A/D converted dry signal from your effects which, to me, defeats the purpose of the mixer. In my case, as soon as I started to use a mixer, my dry sound (in the wet cabs) was clearer and more present (more even with the effects). Perhaps your issues revolves around the looper you have between the mixer and the power amp, which I can't fathom why you need, but I'm interested in learning about...

Steve

I hear you on the undesirable D/A and A/D, but that's the compromise I found I had to make.

Most of my play time is spent using loops, so It's gotta be in there.

If you see a better configuration/place to put it, I'm all ears.

It's a TC Ditto X2.

Thanks for the insight.

Mixer L/R MIX2 Outputs to L/R Inputs of Looper

Looper L/R Outputs to Stereo Power amp L/R Inputs

^This is how it's plumbed right now.

RJM mixer L/R ---> Ditto L/R ---> Matrix L/R

BTW Zachman, thanks for the YT you did with Bob.

That helped on this too.

 

[Zachman]

2) Dry level in parallel path has to sit on equal footing with effect levels, or else the effects will drown out the dry component, leaving an overly wet output from the looper, which you don't notice until using the looper, at which point the dry cab is dropped out.

I'm finding, to get this balance at the looper input, the effects need killdry set to off and the effects mix (level) needs to be turned down.

Interesting stuff. I'm a bit confused as to why you need the looper between the mixer and power amp. Can you explain why you need it?

It seems to me that the whole point of the mixer is to get a pristine dry sound from your amp mixed in parallel at the appropriate level with the effected sounds. If you turn off killdry on your effects and have an effects mix that isn't 100%, you are mixing in D/A and A/D converted dry signal from your effects which, to me, defeats the purpose of the mixer. In my case, as soon as I started to use a mixer, my dry sound (in the wet cabs) was clearer and more present (more even with the effects). Perhaps your issues revolves around the looper you have between the mixer and the power amp, which I can't fathom why you need, but I'm interested in learning about...

Steve

I hear you on the undesirable D/A and A/D, but that's the compromise I found I had to make.

Most of my play time is spent using loops, so It's gotta be in there.

If you see a better configuration/place to put it, I'm all ears.

It's a TC Ditto X2.

Thanks for the insight.

Mixer L/R MIX2 Outputs to L/R Inputs of Looper

Looper L/R Outputs to Stereo Power amp L/R Inputs

^This is how it's plumbed right now.

RJM mixer L/R ---> Ditto L/R ---> Matrix L/R

BTW Zachman, thanks for the YT you did with Bob.

That helped on this too.

What's the issue you're having w/ the current configuration?

 

[LiveHardDieFree]

2) Dry level in parallel path has to sit on equal footing with effect levels, or else the effects will drown out the dry component, leaving an overly wet output from the looper, which you don't notice until using the looper, at which point the dry cab is dropped out.

I'm finding, to get this balance at the looper input, the effects need killdry set to off and the effects mix (level) needs to be turned down.

Interesting stuff. I'm a bit confused as to why you need the looper between the mixer and power amp. Can you explain why you need it?

It seems to me that the whole point of the mixer is to get a pristine dry sound from your amp mixed in parallel at the appropriate level with the effected sounds. If you turn off killdry on your effects and have an effects mix that isn't 100%, you are mixing in D/A and A/D converted dry signal from your effects which, to me, defeats the purpose of the mixer. In my case, as soon as I started to use a mixer, my dry sound (in the wet cabs) was clearer and more present (more even with the effects). Perhaps your issues revolves around the looper you have between the mixer and the power amp, which I can't fathom why you need, but I'm interested in learning about...

Steve

I hear you on the undesirable D/A and A/D, but that's the compromise I found I had to make.

Most of my play time is spent using loops, so It's gotta be in there.

If you see a better configuration/place to put it, I'm all ears.

It's a TC Ditto X2.

Thanks for the insight.

Mixer L/R MIX2 Outputs to L/R Inputs of Looper

Looper L/R Outputs to Stereo Power amp L/R Inputs

^This is how it's plumbed right now.

RJM mixer L/R ---> Ditto L/R ---> Matrix L/R

BTW Zachman, thanks for the YT you did with Bob.

That helped on this too.

What's the issue you're having w/ the current configuration?

Tell you the truth, I'm starting to think Steve's right, maybe that looper is toast, incompatible with setup, or maybe there's some weird impedance thing going on.........

The issue is with the L/R wet/dry signals: (no issue w/ center dry)

With looper bypassed, all effects @ killdry = "yes" and all levels set to noon unity (line-tap, effects mix, mixer output and power amp the wet/dry signals are balanced in wet cabs and wet/dry/wet cabs are balanced.

While looping with same level profile and looper level at max: wet/dry signal is greatly diminished (dry even more so), effects sound like garbage and wet cabs are noticeably quieter than the dry cab.

 

[Zachman]

2) Dry level in parallel path has to sit on equal footing with effect levels, or else the effects will drown out the dry component, leaving an overly wet output from the looper, which you don't notice until using the looper, at which point the dry cab is dropped out.

I'm finding, to get this balance at the looper input, the effects need killdry set to off and the effects mix (level) needs to be turned down.

Interesting stuff. I'm a bit confused as to why you need the looper between the mixer and power amp. Can you explain why you need it?

It seems to me that the whole point of the mixer is to get a pristine dry sound from your amp mixed in parallel at the appropriate level with the effected sounds. If you turn off killdry on your effects and have an effects mix that isn't 100%, you are mixing in D/A and A/D converted dry signal from your effects which, to me, defeats the purpose of the mixer. In my case, as soon as I started to use a mixer, my dry sound (in the wet cabs) was clearer and more present (more even with the effects). Perhaps your issues revolves around the looper you have between the mixer and the power amp, which I can't fathom why you need, but I'm interested in learning about...

Steve

I hear you on the undesirable D/A and A/D, but that's the compromise I found I had to make.

Most of my play time is spent using loops, so It's gotta be in there.

If you see a better configuration/place to put it, I'm all ears.

It's a TC Ditto X2.

Thanks for the insight.

Mixer L/R MIX2 Outputs to L/R Inputs of Looper

Looper L/R Outputs to Stereo Power amp L/R Inputs

^This is how it's plumbed right now.

RJM mixer L/R ---> Ditto L/R ---> Matrix L/R

BTW Zachman, thanks for the YT you did with Bob.

That helped on this too.

What's the issue you're having w/ the current configuration?

Tell you the truth, I'm starting to think Steve's right, maybe that looper is toast, incompatible with setup, or maybe there's some weird impedance thing going on.........

The issue is with the L/R wet/dry signals: (no issue w/ center dry)

With looper bypassed, all effects @ killdry = "yes" and all levels set to noon unity (line-tap, effects mix, mixer output and power amp the wet/dry signals are balanced in wet cabs and wet/dry/wet cabs are balanced.

While looping with same level profile and looper level at max: wet/dry signal is greatly diminished (dry even more so), effects sound like garbage and wet cabs are noticeably quieter than the dry cab.

I think Steve and you are correct in assuming a gain stage mismatch or an Impedance issue, or the Looper itself could have an issue.

Quick fix (Not ideal, but still) solution: Perhaps add a pair of Boost pedals after the Looper, before going to the inputs of the Power amp? Possibly a Volume pedal from the source line out, then to the Boost pedals then to the looper; That way you can adjust the playback volume/Blend in real time

 

[LiveHardDieFree]

2) Dry level in parallel path has to sit on equal footing with effect levels, or else the effects will drown out the dry component, leaving an overly wet output from the looper, which you don't notice until using the looper, at which point the dry cab is dropped out.

I'm finding, to get this balance at the looper input, the effects need killdry set to off and the effects mix (level) needs to be turned down.

Interesting stuff. I'm a bit confused as to why you need the looper between the mixer and power amp. Can you explain why you need it?

It seems to me that the whole point of the mixer is to get a pristine dry sound from your amp mixed in parallel at the appropriate level with the effected sounds. If you turn off killdry on your effects and have an effects mix that isn't 100%, you are mixing in D/A and A/D converted dry signal from your effects which, to me, defeats the purpose of the mixer. In my case, as soon as I started to use a mixer, my dry sound (in the wet cabs) was clearer and more present (more even with the effects). Perhaps your issues revolves around the looper you have between the mixer and the power amp, which I can't fathom why you need, but I'm interested in learning about...

Steve

I hear you on the undesirable D/A and A/D, but that's the compromise I found I had to make.

Most of my play time is spent using loops, so It's gotta be in there.

If you see a better configuration/place to put it, I'm all ears.

It's a TC Ditto X2.

Thanks for the insight.

Mixer L/R MIX2 Outputs to L/R Inputs of Looper

Looper L/R Outputs to Stereo Power amp L/R Inputs

^This is how it's plumbed right now.

RJM mixer L/R ---> Ditto L/R ---> Matrix L/R

BTW Zachman, thanks for the YT you did with Bob.

That helped on this too.

What's the issue you're having w/ the current configuration?

Tell you the truth, I'm starting to think Steve's right, maybe that looper is toast, incompatible with setup, or maybe there's some weird impedance thing going on.........

The issue is with the L/R wet/dry signals: (no issue w/ center dry)

With looper bypassed, all effects @ killdry = "yes" and all levels set to noon unity (line-tap, effects mix, mixer output and power amp the wet/dry signals are balanced in wet cabs and wet/dry/wet cabs are balanced.

While looping with same level profile and looper level at max: wet/dry signal is greatly diminished (dry even more so), effects sound like garbage and wet cabs are noticeably quieter than the dry cab.

I think Steve and you are correct in assuming a gain stage mismatch or an Impedance issue, or the Looper itself could have an issue.

Quick fix (Not ideal, but still) solution: Perhaps add a pair of Boost pedals after the Looper, before going to the inputs of the Power amp? Possibly a Volume pedal from the source line out, then to the Boost pedals then to the looper; That way you can adjust the playback volume/Blend in real time

Reset the looper.

All good now.

Looks like many others have the same issues.

Thanks gents.

 

[metalmaniac93]

Ordered the Mark L Dual Stereo Line Mixer this morning India time. Should be there a little bit after I get back to the good ole USA. You can also use it in the loop as per Mark L. Now I just need to get a Gator Case and some cables and I should be set. Only bummer is all of 3 of my 4X12 cabs have different speakers.

Look forward to hearing what you think!

Steve

Me too!!! Thanks!!

 

[jonthomas83]

Yeah i was part of that discussion and me too added a mixer with killer tesults. Although mine is little $100 mixer i had layong around and decided to try it. Sounded so good i implemented it in my setup. A bit tricky to setup as a regular mixer has a lot of routing options, but once setup. Damn perfect. I can even have EQ adjustments on the dry tone in the wet cabs.

Very big sounding and crystal clear with no phasey sound like adding dry through the processor.

Great setup you got there man. Isn't WDW fun or what????? With the band it jumps in front the mix great.

How do you route things with this setup? Looks really cool and like the OP said, really versatile. I too am interested in going the traditional mixer route, but was wondering if there are any major benefits over using something like the OPs Dual Stereo Line Mixer?

PS: OP, congrats, that's an amazing setup!!!

 

[f550maranello2]

So Im new at this and Iv been reading this and have some questions.. Rather than buying that MLC mixer, couldnt you just use a regular mixer and achieve the same results.. Meaning if you do this.

Guitar --- amp-- speaker output to cab
second speaker output to my hotplate with line out-- to 1st channel of a regular mixer then my effects to channel 2 and 3.. then using the output to the power amp?