Was EVH using his old trusty Marshall still in 1985?

[braintheory]

That sizzle on the first record, just buy a pair of JBLs and load them into a cab with 2 GBs…playing almost any Marshall through it and you hear that high end.

Hard for me to say which records (I think about things more by specific songs), but after getting the 20 watt pre-rola, I think now that's at least as important of a component as the JBL's, more so I guess for the upper mid and mids, but it's such a cutting/present speaker. The other version GB's I've got (pre-rola G12M 25 watts, 75hz and Heritage 20's) are very different sounding than the 20 pre-rola

It is interesting though, I'm not a EVH guy, but of all my 26 amps, my 2 Marshall's ('67 tremolo and '79 JMP2203) and '89 SLO seem to be the only ones I've got that really do well for his stuff. Even the Naylor or Wizard imo just don't have it for that sound. The '60's Gretsch combo I'm borrowing with my klon boosting it actually sounds really killer for playing that stuff. Doesn't sound like his tone of course, but just sounds really good for it probably since it's got lots of sizzle and bite

 

[SpiderWars]

I like these threads. We tend to get along better even if we dont agree 100%...less interweb slap fights. And these threads really make long flights/layovers way better.

I could talk Marshalls and/or Eddie all day.

I do agree that the basic recipe is pretty simple. But for whatever reason it took until 1978 for most of us to hear it. Guys like Al Estrada could use other rigs and get close enough but he chooses to use a very similar rig. Now that I've put my own Eddie-rig together I think I can see why.

 

[braintheory]

The “worship” of his tone comes from his incredible playing. We as humans get “tricked” I guess you could say. Many of your favorite tones, are really just phenomenal riffs/songs, that’s literally it. Couple that with a player who picks the right amp for their style and “plays to the amp” so to speak, and there ya go: your Brain perceives that as great “tone”. I picked up a phrase from a buddy of mine, “tone riffs”. Back in the day, nightrage’s record sweet vengeance was all the rage, and it is arguably the best mix (to me) that ever came out of nordstroms studio. If you listen to the track “ the tremor”, towards the end is an absolutely killer break down. THAT is a tone riff I would call it. That riff just plays to the amp (5150 and engl savage I believe), and it sounds great from all the sums of the playing and that amp together. Point is, dime was the king of stuff like that for sure. But really, many of our favorite tones are really just great riffs/playing, and the brain cant really differentiate between the two and which part of that is making it sound “good” to you.

It’s kind of like meeting a very attractive girl and then being asked specific questions about her personality or outfit. Did we even notice lol. Same with when we hear exceptionally good musical ideas (aka riffs) or playing itself. That’s why in gear demos I actually think it’s better not to play riffs that are too good or playing that’s too showy. Distracts too much from the tone part of the demo. I prefer to hear very simple stuff in the context of gear demos/reviews

 

[panhead]

I like these threads. We tend to get along better even if we dont agree 100%...less interweb slap fights. And these threads really make long flights/layovers way better.

I could talk Marshalls and/or Eddie all day.

I do agree that the basic recipe is pretty simple. But for whatever reason it took until 1978 for most of us to hear it. Guys like Al Estrada could use other rigs and get close enough but he chooses to use a very similar rig. Now that I've put my own Eddie-rig together I think I can see why.

It was his playing, plenty of people had that amount gain in the 70`s

 

[SpiderWars]

It was his playing, plenty of people had that amount gain in the 70`s

That's where we disagree...regarding the gain. I mean, I was there too and I wasn't hearing it. Hearing VH1 for the first time in '78 for me was like; "Holy Shit FINAL:LY we get all the 'good' distortion my 14 year old brain wanted". I also usually liked live records because the guys were just cranking it instead of trying to dial in some tame version. Huge Zeppelin fan and I always wanted JP to just crank the damn Marshall and quit trying to dial in these 'cute' tones in the studio. But even then it still didn't sound like VH1.

I think over time the impact it had can get foggy but I at least remember how BIG of impact it was relative to other things music. There weren't many in that tier, hearing Yngwie for the first time for example.

 

[panhead]

That's where we disagree...regarding the gain. I mean, I was there too and I wasn't hearing it. Hearing VH1 for the first time in '78 for me was like; "Holy Shit FINAL:LY we get all the 'good' distortion my 14 year old brain wanted". I also usually liked live records because the guys were just cranking it instead of trying to dial in some tame version. Huge Zeppelin fan and I always wanted JP to just crank the damn Marshall and quit trying to dial in these 'cute' tones in the studio. But even then it still didn't sound like VH1.

I think over time the impact it had can get foggy but I at least remember how BIG of impact it was relative to other things music. There weren't many in that tier, hearing Yngwie for the first time for example.

Then you didnt see zep live

 

[panhead]

Ed made it sound that way, hell the Elliot dude from the Cars had that much gain He just didnt play like that

 

[SpiderWars]

Ed made it sound that way, hell the Elliot dude from the Cars had that much gain He just didnt play like that

I saw them on a tour for the first record, or maybe the second one just had come out. They opened for somebody. They were really good, always liked that first record and EE in general. Good player and good tone too. But I don't hear that.

 

[glpg80]

I've never seen a more homeless looking yet housed person than Fluff.

Zakk Wylde enters the room

 

[thegame]

Zakk Wylde enters the room

…followed closely by Chris Holmes who laughs at the two pretty boy debutants already there.

 

[journeyman73]

You ever notice every ToneDig post is some long thing trying to teach people shit they already know &/or have read about for YEARS.

You mean the most common and rudimentary ‘wisdom’ that even the guitar magazines have been talking about for decades?

Yeah, I am begging to see some of that! Lol

I feel like (in this life or maybe even in a prior one) he must have been some sort of condescending teacher…likely English (at least as a second language)! Lol

 

[DanTravis62]

You mean the most common and rudimentary ‘wisdom’ that even the guitar magazines have been talking about for decades?

Yeah, I am begging to see some of that! Lol

I feel like (in this life or maybe even in a prior one) he must have been some sort of condescending teacher…likely English (at least as a second language)! Lol

It's hilarious though, because that common knowledge is a part of every RTer's memory banks, and he proffers it like its the mana of the gods. He thinks so highly of this completely banal, basic, stock information, that anyone could get for free, he wrote a damn 50$ ebook about it.

But the really interesting knowledge, is where the stuff "everyone knows" falls apart, or there are exceptions to those basic things we all learned in guitar magazines growing up. Most of this knowledge can only be gained by long years of experience, or talking to/learning from someone who has long years of experience. I call it "high gain gnosticism."

And every time something like that is brought up, something that can only be acquired through hard work and experience, Tone-dig-mort starts arguing and playing pedantics and gotcha word games. Because he knows hes out of his depth and can't admit it. How could he admit hes out of his league, when he has the balls to write a 50$ ninety page "bedroom recording guide"?

"you see, that doesn't follow the Rules© that Glenn Fricker and Fluff set out, in their very scientific and peer-reviewed youtube videos!"

"You see, i'm standing on the shoulders of giants like Newton, Richarn Feynmann, and Galileo, because I use ULTRA SMART GUY, PEER REVIEWED SCIENCEY SCIENCE™ to back up MY claims!"

and then invokes danth's law and bails, instead of responding to any of the (normally valid) criticism of his excellency's knowledge.

Especially telling was not understanding the difference between "tight" and "loose", and how headroom affects the low end for high gain sounds.

You would have to be a complete neophyte to not understand these concepts, of course. But he's written an Ebook! So he has to save face by pretending the headroom issues caused by lower wattage amps can simply be "solved" with post EQ and IRs, as opposed to admitting he's probably in AA or Fall league, most certainly not the Majors.

 

[DanTravis62]

It’s kind of like meeting a very attractive girl and then being asked specific questions about her personality or outfit. Did we even notice lol. Same with when we hear exceptionally good musical ideas (aka riffs) or playing itself. That’s why in gear demos I actually think it’s better not to play riffs that are too good or playing that’s too showy. Distracts too much from the tone part of the demo. I prefer to hear very simple stuff in the context of gear demos/reviews

That drives me nuts when you FINALLY find a demo of that piece of gear you were looking for, and then the person demoing just wildly shreds for 8 bars and then ends on the root note power chord 14 times. I can't tell anything about the tone of the gear from descending sixes thirty seven times in a row.

Sometimes you'll get lucky and they'll throw you a bone, and do like 3 palm mutes and a big triad so you can actually hear the gear.

 

[Rdodson]

Sounded like more gain because he tuned the B to where it wasn't dissonant. Hence RWTD sounds huge (and no JBL on that one).

Pro-tip: don't get gnostic about stuff and your rational sanity will stay intact

 

[DanTravis62]

Sounded like more gain because he tuned the B to where it wasn't dissonant. Hence RWTD sounds huge (and no JBL on that one).

Pro-tip: don't get gnostic about stuff and your rational sanity will stay intact

Ironically, your "sweetened tuning" comment is EXACTLY the sort of knowledge I'm talking about.

 

[panhead]

98% of the time what a listener`s hearing is volume percieved as gain. Of course IMO

 

[Nigel]

Ed had a Ton of marshalls, almost every major band in LA eventually aquired an amp from him. The story is good and its mostly true but the original one/ used on VH1 was lost in shipping by the airlines, im pretty sure. It was 98% Ed the amp just followed, same with Hendrix. The only 2 true originals of rock music imo.

That is like a blessed dispensation of the high priest and gift of tools from the master to the apprentices. Kind of storybook like and cool!

 

[panhead]

Dont forget the plate reverb on the early recordings.

 

[Racerxrated]

I would agree that some players’ live tone was similar to Ed’s. But, nothing on tape even came close.