What has the biggest impact on tone?

[jesserides2005]

My .02

Sound = Gear
Tone = Mood & Mojo

 

[Valtiel]

The tone knob.....



















I win.

 

[Anonymous]

Sounds like you should be playing violin. Youre full of shit

One guy says amp first then hands second is most important? Fuckn unbelievable. Tell that to someone if they play a cello/violin/ piano/ god fuckn forbid an acoustic guitar or a banjo that the tone of that instrument is not manipulated by the players fingers. Dont get me started about playn thru a non master volume amp.

I hate to break this to you all knowing Shawn but my Father plays Violin. He was also accepted to The Juliard school of music....just throwing that in there so that you know that he isn't a slouch......Funny thing though...My Father sounds way different on his cheap school violin vs his Old German made violin.... We've both listen to them side by side nad the tone is night and day different. I guess his fingers change when he plays the cheap Violin vs the good one LMMFAO. I guess all the virtuoso's seeking out a stradivarius violin are morons being that by your definition they should be able to get the same tone out of any piece of musical gear.
For arguments sake... do you have any recording of you playing? I only ask because you come to this forum touting your bulshit and yet no ones ever fucking heard you play LMAO. You speak as if everyone should bow down to you and yet id really love to hear the musical genius that is Shawn

Just so that I can put my money where my mouth is ,go ahead and tell me that these two tones are the same....If you think ,or should anyone else think so ,they/you should reallly go and get your hearing checked. Same player two different tones... now go ahead tell me that tone is all in your fingers

 

[Gainfreak]

Sounds like you should be playing violin. Youre full of shit

One guy says amp first then hands second is most important? Fuckn unbelievable. Tell that to someone if they play a cello/violin/ piano/ god fuckn forbid an acoustic guitar or a banjo that the tone of that instrument is not manipulated by the players fingers. Dont get me started about playn thru a non master volume amp.

I hate to break this to you all knowing Shawn but my Father plays Violin. He was also accepted to The Juliard school of music....just throwing that in there so that you know that he isn't a slouch......Funny thing though...My Father sounds way different on his cheap school violin vs his Old German made violin.... We've both listen to them side by side nad the tone is night and day different. I guess his fingers change when he plays the cheap Violin vs the good one LMMFAO. I guess all the virtuoso's seeking out a stradivarius violin are morons being that by your definition they should be able to get the same tone out of any piece of musical gear.
For arguments sake... do you have any recording of you playing? I only ask because you come to this forum touting your bulshit and yet no ones ever fucking heard you play LMAO. You speak as if everyone should bow down to you and yet id really love to hear the musical genius that is Shawn

Just so that I can put my money where my mouth is ,go ahead and tell me that these two tones are the same....If you think ,or should anyone else think so ,they/you should reallly go and get your hearing checked. Same player two different tones... now go ahead tell me that tone is all in your fingers

The only one full of shit here is you my friend.

 

[bravedude2]

 

[Zachman]

Sounds like you should be playing violin. Youre full of shit

 

[Valtiel]

I'm pretty sure Shawn is Carl, and Carl is sixstrings, and sixstrings may also be Klark........

 

[HerbieBoogie]

BUT NOW IT MUST DIE

 

[degenaro]

One guy says amp first then hands second is most important? Fuckn unbelievable. Tell that to someone if they play a cello/violin/ piano/ god fuckn forbid an acoustic guitar or a banjo that the tone of that instrument is not manipulated by the players fingers. Dont get me started about playn thru a non master volume amp.

I hate to break this to you all knowing Shawn but my Father plays Violin. He was also accepted to The Juliard school of music....just throwing that in there so that you know that he isn't a slouch......Funny thing though...My Father sounds way different on his cheap school violin vs his Old German made violin.... We've both listen to them side by side nad the tone is night and day different. I guess his fingers change when he plays the cheap Violin vs the good one LMMFAO. I guess all the virtuoso's seeking out a stradivarius violin are morons being that by your definition they should be able to get the same tone out of any piece of musical gear.
For arguments sake... do you have any recording of you playing? I only ask because you come to this forum touting your bulshit and yet no ones ever fucking heard you play LMAO. You speak as if everyone should bow down to you and yet id really love to hear the musical genius that is Shawn

Just so that I can put my money where my mouth is ,go ahead and tell me that these two tones are the same....If you think ,or should anyone else think so ,they/you should reallly go and get your hearing checked. Same player two different tones... now go ahead tell me that tone is all in your fingers

So the majority in this thread thinks the amp has the biggest impact...yet you give the instrument as an example...
Here's the thing, Ralphie...everything makes a difference, humitity, room acosutics, string, where you stand, how much tequila you had, etc, the question is how much does it matter to any one individual. That said, I'm in the instrument is more important camp than the amp, since in the end I gladly play anything that is loud and clean.
But back to instruments...I got a couple of acoustics, a Martin 00 that is my go to live acoustic, sounds nowhere near as good as my 40 year old Gurian, and is about half the money. But depending on the acoustic space I'm in there are situations where the Martin sounds way better...go figure.

I said this over and over again, it's a tactile thing for me, a response thing..if whatever I do wit my hands translates right, none of this matters to me, when it doesn't I can't use the gear...

As for you two clips, the first had more mids and less upper mid hair, but come on I can drop 3 k and up 7 k on the consle and get them bal park the same I hazard a guess here.

And as always...the clip to show the opposite...switching between a Bassman with OD and a Soldano Avenger with SLO tranny...

 

[Gainfreak]

One guy says amp first then hands second is most important? Fuckn unbelievable. Tell that to someone if they play a cello/violin/ piano/ god fuckn forbid an acoustic guitar or a banjo that the tone of that instrument is not manipulated by the players fingers. Dont get me started about playn thru a non master volume amp.

I hate to break this to you all knowing Shawn but my Father plays Violin. He was also accepted to The Juliard school of music....just throwing that in there so that you know that he isn't a slouch......Funny thing though...My Father sounds way different on his cheap school violin vs his Old German made violin.... We've both listen to them side by side nad the tone is night and day different. I guess his fingers change when he plays the cheap Violin vs the good one LMMFAO. I guess all the virtuoso's seeking out a stradivarius violin are morons being that by your definition they should be able to get the same tone out of any piece of musical gear.
For arguments sake... do you have any recording of you playing? I only ask because you come to this forum touting your bulshit and yet no ones ever fucking heard you play LMAO. You speak as if everyone should bow down to you and yet id really love to hear the musical genius that is Shawn

Just so that I can put my money where my mouth is ,go ahead and tell me that these two tones are the same....If you think ,or should anyone else think so ,they/you should reallly go and get your hearing checked. Same player two different tones... now go ahead tell me that tone is all in your fingers

So the majority in this thread thinks the amp has the biggest impact...yet you give the instrument as an example...
Here's the thing, Ralphie...everything makes a difference, humitity, room acosutics, string, where you stand, how much tequila you had, etc, the question is how much does it matter to any one individual. That said, I'm in the instrument is more important camp than the amp, since in the end I gladly play anything that is loud and clean.
But back to instruments...I got a couple of acoustics, a Martin 00 that is my go to live acoustic, sounds nowhere near as good as my 40 year old Gurian, and is about half the money. But depending on the acoustic space I'm in there are situations where the Martin sounds way better...go figure.

I said this over and over again, it's a tactile thing for me, a response thing..if whatever I do wit my hands translates right, none of this matters to me, when it doesn't I can't use the gear...

As for you two clips, the first had more mids and less upper mid hair, but come on I can drop 3 k and up 7 k on the consle and get them bal park the same I hazard a guess here.

And as always...the clip to show the opposite...switching between a Bassman with OD and a Soldano Avenger with SLO tranny...

\
We've been over this a thousand time Ed. My arguement is with the idiots who think tone is 100% in the fingers. Its not...Plain and simple. I have agreed time and time again that your fingers do play a role in your tone.....Definitely so but when I hear people saying that its 100% in the fingers then I have to say bullshit. ...And yes.......go read what Shawn is saying. He thinks its 100% in the fingers. Im done with this bullshit.

 

[Digital Jams]

One guy says amp first then hands second is most important? Fuckn unbelievable. Tell that to someone if they play a cello/violin/ piano/ god fuckn forbid an acoustic guitar or a banjo that the tone of that instrument is not manipulated by the players fingers. Dont get me started about playn thru a non master volume amp.

I hate to break this to you all knowing Shawn but my Father plays Violin. He was also accepted to The Juliard school of music....just throwing that in there so that you know that he isn't a slouch......Funny thing though...My Father sounds way different on his cheap school violin vs his Old German made violin.... We've both listen to them side by side nad the tone is night and day different. I guess his fingers change when he plays the cheap Violin vs the good one LMMFAO. I guess all the virtuoso's seeking out a stradivarius violin are morons being that by your definition they should be able to get the same tone out of any piece of musical gear.
For arguments sake... do you have any recording of you playing? I only ask because you come to this forum touting your bulshit and yet no ones ever fucking heard you play LMAO. You speak as if everyone should bow down to you and yet id really love to hear the musical genius that is Shawn

Just so that I can put my money where my mouth is ,go ahead and tell me that these two tones are the same....If you think ,or should anyone else think so ,they/you should reallly go and get your hearing checked. Same player two different tones... now go ahead tell me that tone is all in your fingers

So the majority in this thread thinks the amp has the biggest impact...yet you give the instrument as an example...
Here's the thing, Ralphie...everything makes a difference, humitity, room acosutics, string, where you stand, how much tequila you had, etc, the question is how much does it matter to any one individual. That said, I'm in the instrument is more important camp than the amp, since in the end I gladly play anything that is loud and clean.
But back to instruments...I got a couple of acoustics, a Martin 00 that is my go to live acoustic, sounds nowhere near as good as my 40 year old Gurian, and is about half the money. But depending on the acoustic space I'm in there are situations where the Martin sounds way better...go figure.

I said this over and over again, it's a tactile thing for me, a response thing..if whatever I do wit my hands translates right, none of this matters to me, when it doesn't I can't use the gear...

As for you two clips, the first had more mids and less upper mid hair, but come on I can drop 3 k and up 7 k on the consle and get them bal park the same I hazard a guess here.

And as always...the clip to show the opposite...switching between a Bassman with OD and a Soldano Avenger with SLO tranny...

Never heard the naked one, I have the backingtrack version.

 

[degenaro]

One guy says amp first then hands second is most important? Fuckn unbelievable. Tell that to someone if they play a cello/violin/ piano/ god fuckn forbid an acoustic guitar or a banjo that the tone of that instrument is not manipulated by the players fingers. Dont get me started about playn thru a non master volume amp.

I hate to break this to you all knowing Shawn but my Father plays Violin. He was also accepted to The Juliard school of music....just throwing that in there so that you know that he isn't a slouch......Funny thing though...My Father sounds way different on his cheap school violin vs his Old German made violin.... We've both listen to them side by side nad the tone is night and day different. I guess his fingers change when he plays the cheap Violin vs the good one LMMFAO. I guess all the virtuoso's seeking out a stradivarius violin are morons being that by your definition they should be able to get the same tone out of any piece of musical gear.
For arguments sake... do you have any recording of you playing? I only ask because you come to this forum touting your bulshit and yet no ones ever fucking heard you play LMAO. You speak as if everyone should bow down to you and yet id really love to hear the musical genius that is Shawn

Just so that I can put my money where my mouth is ,go ahead and tell me that these two tones are the same....If you think ,or should anyone else think so ,they/you should reallly go and get your hearing checked. Same player two different tones... now go ahead tell me that tone is all in your fingers

So the majority in this thread thinks the amp has the biggest impact...yet you give the instrument as an example...
Here's the thing, Ralphie...everything makes a difference, humitity, room acosutics, string, where you stand, how much tequila you had, etc, the question is how much does it matter to any one individual. That said, I'm in the instrument is more important camp than the amp, since in the end I gladly play anything that is loud and clean.
But back to instruments...I got a couple of acoustics, a Martin 00 that is my go to live acoustic, sounds nowhere near as good as my 40 year old Gurian, and is about half the money. But depending on the acoustic space I'm in there are situations where the Martin sounds way better...go figure.

I said this over and over again, it's a tactile thing for me, a response thing..if whatever I do wit my hands translates right, none of this matters to me, when it doesn't I can't use the gear...

As for you two clips, the first had more mids and less upper mid hair, but come on I can drop 3 k and up 7 k on the consle and get them bal park the same I hazard a guess here.

And as always...the clip to show the opposite...switching between a Bassman with OD and a Soldano Avenger with SLO tranny...

Never heard the naked one, I have the backingtrack version.

Here ya go...

 

[degenaro]

One guy says amp first then hands second is most important? Fuckn unbelievable. Tell that to someone if they play a cello/violin/ piano/ god fuckn forbid an acoustic guitar or a banjo that the tone of that instrument is not manipulated by the players fingers. Dont get me started about playn thru a non master volume amp.

I hate to break this to you all knowing Shawn but my Father plays Violin. He was also accepted to The Juliard school of music....just throwing that in there so that you know that he isn't a slouch......Funny thing though...My Father sounds way different on his cheap school violin vs his Old German made violin.... We've both listen to them side by side nad the tone is night and day different. I guess his fingers change when he plays the cheap Violin vs the good one LMMFAO. I guess all the virtuoso's seeking out a stradivarius violin are morons being that by your definition they should be able to get the same tone out of any piece of musical gear.
For arguments sake... do you have any recording of you playing? I only ask because you come to this forum touting your bulshit and yet no ones ever fucking heard you play LMAO. You speak as if everyone should bow down to you and yet id really love to hear the musical genius that is Shawn

Just so that I can put my money where my mouth is ,go ahead and tell me that these two tones are the same....If you think ,or should anyone else think so ,they/you should reallly go and get your hearing checked. Same player two different tones... now go ahead tell me that tone is all in your fingers

So the majority in this thread thinks the amp has the biggest impact...yet you give the instrument as an example...
Here's the thing, Ralphie...everything makes a difference, humitity, room acosutics, string, where you stand, how much tequila you had, etc, the question is how much does it matter to any one individual. That said, I'm in the instrument is more important camp than the amp, since in the end I gladly play anything that is loud and clean.
But back to instruments...I got a couple of acoustics, a Martin 00 that is my go to live acoustic, sounds nowhere near as good as my 40 year old Gurian, and is about half the money. But depending on the acoustic space I'm in there are situations where the Martin sounds way better...go figure.

I said this over and over again, it's a tactile thing for me, a response thing..if whatever I do wit my hands translates right, none of this matters to me, when it doesn't I can't use the gear...

As for you two clips, the first had more mids and less upper mid hair, but come on I can drop 3 k and up 7 k on the consle and get them bal park the same I hazard a guess here.

And as always...the clip to show the opposite...switching between a Bassman with OD and a Soldano Avenger with SLO tranny...

\
We've been over this a thousand time Ed. My arguement is with the idiots who think tone is 100% in the fingers. Its not...Plain and simple. I have agreed time and time again that your fingers do play a role in your tone.....Definitely so but when I hear people saying that its 100% in the fingers then I have to say bullshit. ...And yes.......go read what Shawn is saying. He thinks its 100% in the fingers. Im done with this bullshit.

Hmmm...I reckon my point is that it is the fingers to huge percentile, but when everything is said and done to me there are only a few components to tone...
The actual EQ...which can be easily enough changed/shaped...and I guess we could saythat a EQ after the amp is gear that is more important than anything.
ADSR, what happens when you strike the strin, how fast from the initial attack to peak and decay to sustai and release
And of cours how much the signal gets smushed via compression.
Any kinda of gain really is just square waving the signal, pretty much extreme compression.

So those 4 components to me are what happens to a signal, and every singleone of them can be manipulated by hands and/or gear...

Ralph, yes we been over this a gazillion times but every once in a while I dig a old fashioned heated exchange.

 

[Digital Jams]

Thanks

 

[rupe]

I think the whole "tone is in the fingers" argument depends greatly on the type of tone you play with. For clean and low gain tones, I think the "fingers" can be a key element to the overall sound. On the other hand, screaming high gain tones tend to homogenize subtle nuances in a players attack (hell, sometimes they make it so you can't tell a Strat from a Les Paul ), so the "fingers" become a much less important part of the equation. My aplogies if this was already stated...4 pages was too much to read

 

[Meathead]

I think the whole "tone is in the fingers" argument depends greatly on the type of tone you play with. For clean and low gain tones, I think the "fingers" can be a key element to the overall sound. On the other hand, screaming high gain tones tend to homogenize subtle nuances in a players attack (hell, sometimes they make it so you can't tell a Strat from a Les Paul ), so the "fingers" become a much less important part of the equation. My aplogies if this was already stated...4 pages was too much to read

Good point...I would agree.
Robo gain kils a lot of the hand tone...lots of compression, it does just flatten everything out, the amp imposes it's thing on everything. Is that a tele or a Les Paul?

5150...the hand tone killer.
I've owned two, I couldn't get along with that kind of gain/compression.

 

[degenaro]

I think the whole "tone is in the fingers" argument depends greatly on the type of tone you play with. For clean and low gain tones, I think the "fingers" can be a key element to the overall sound. On the other hand, screaming high gain tones tend to homogenize subtle nuances in a players attack (hell, sometimes they make it so you can't tell a Strat from a Les Paul ), so the "fingers" become a much less important part of the equation. My aplogies if this was already stated...4 pages was too much to read

Good point...I would agree.
Robo gain kils a lot of the hand tone...lots of compression, it does just flatten everything out, the amp imposes it's thing on everything. Is that a tele or a Les Paul?

5150...the hand tone killer.
I've owned two, I couldn't get along with that kind of gain/compression.

Indeed, this is what I was getting at with gain being a severe form o compression.

 

[Meathead]

I think the whole "tone is in the fingers" argument depends greatly on the type of tone you play with. For clean and low gain tones, I think the "fingers" can be a key element to the overall sound. On the other hand, screaming high gain tones tend to homogenize subtle nuances in a players attack (hell, sometimes they make it so you can't tell a Strat from a Les Paul ), so the "fingers" become a much less important part of the equation. My aplogies if this was already stated...4 pages was too much to read

Good point...I would agree.
Robo gain kils a lot of the hand tone...lots of compression, it does just flatten everything out, the amp imposes it's thing on everything. Is that a tele or a Les Paul?

5150...the hand tone killer.
I've owned two, I couldn't get along with that kind of gain/compression.

Indeed, this is what I was getting at with gain being a severe form o compression.

I think we're apples talking to oranges...this makes more sense to me now.

Ralph saying most of the tone comes from the amp can be true with the real high gainers. But I'm not coming from there as I don't even own one.
With a high gainer, a P90 pickup and a strat single coil pickup can sound almost similar drenched in massive gain and compression.
On a lower gained vintage type amp, I can easily tell all the little differences from one single coil to another.