What is the most accurate Klon clone?

[scottosan]

Member here scottosan, had one up for sale on a local facebook group page. Have not heard it but, by the looks of it it looked like an EXACT copy, even the case, and silkscreen.

He might still have it.

yeah cheap MF'ers in DFW, never sold.

The reality is that most of clones that stick true to the origonal schem all sund pretty close. There are no magic diodes, most of.the gain comes from the opamps. It sinply a great design

 

[scottosan]

There are a lot to choose from. At this point most are super close sounding to the originals. Thing is, those 1n34a germanium diodes all sound different, so chances are each unit will sound different.

the sound variance in the kloms.is due.tomtje 20% tolerance in the pots. Most of gain is from the opamps. I have one I built with switcheable diodes and if I bet people cannot hear the difference between 1n34s and d9es even I could be rich

 

[psychodave]

There are a lot to choose from. At this point most are super close sounding to the originals. Thing is, those 1n34a germanium diodes all sound different, so chances are each unit will sound different.

the sound variance in the kloms.is due.tomtje 20% tolerance in the pots. Most of gain is from the opamps. I have one I built with switcheable diodes and if I bet people cannot hear the difference between 1n34s and d9es even I could be rich

I thought I read the guy who made the Klon could hear the diode differences in it?

 

[Braciola]

If you're looking for a Klone for heavy metal, I'd say look elsewhere.
I've been through so many Klones it's insane.
I play classic rock with vintage non Master Marshalls.
I use my Klone set to a clean boost and hit the front end of my Marshalls for a little more omph.
Klones are best used with the gain set low.
Turning the gain up on these sound like $hit, but using them with the gain set low just makes everything sound so much better.
It's my "always on" pedal.
Out of all the Klones I've gone through, an Arc Effects Klone is what's on my board, and I love it.
When I go to play a solo, I'll hit the Arc Effects Klone with a Catalinbread Naga Viper.
Best lead tone I've ever had in the 46 years I've been playing guitar.

 

[paulyc]

There are a lot to choose from. At this point most are super close sounding to the originals. Thing is, those 1n34a germanium diodes all sound different, so chances are each unit will sound different.

the sound variance in the kloms.is due.tomtje 20% tolerance in the pots. Most of gain is from the opamps. I have one I built with switcheable diodes and if I bet people cannot hear the difference between 1n34s and d9es even I could be rich

I thought I read the guy who made the Klon could hear the diode differences in it?

You did read that, but that doesn’t mean ole Billy boy was telling the truth.

 

[Speeddemon]

0 experience with Klons and their clones;
but I do own a Zoom PD-01, which always has been reported to be a poor man's Klon.

That thing really does something nice.


Right now I use a heavily modded DOD 250 (5mm green LEDs instead of the silicium clipping diodes, some cap changes, a low cut/low-boost switch, depending on whether I'm using a Les Paul or Strat, etc).
With the gain at 0, Level maxed, you get that 'just leave it on, it makes everything sound better' tone with a bit more oomph.

I wonder if anyone has experience with a Boss FA-1 Fet Amp or its clones (for instance the cheap Valeton FP-10 pedal) and how it would compare to a Klon?

I've owned an original, made my own clone of it (part for part...sourcing the correct SIP opamps was a bit of a pain at the time), and what's interesting with the Boss is 3-fold:
1) you have a sick amount of 'clean' boost on tap (24 or 26dB IIRC)
2) it imparts its own tone in a good way. It's not a sterile clean boost.
3) you can use the Low Cut switch together with the Bass knob to create a very punchy low-end, that avoids 'woofing it up' at the amp's input.

The FA-1 *is* very useful for metal, IMHO.

For years I've never cared for a Tubescreamer or derivative. Same with the SD-1. Tried the Boss OD-3 and *that one* did have something good going on.
But since a few years, I've found that some circuits do work well with a TS-like or SD-1.

Also interested in how these cheap clones of the Klon from Mosky compare.

(There's also a Silver Horse version, with an added Voice Switch on top).

 

[psychodave]

There are a lot to choose from. At this point most are super close sounding to the originals. Thing is, those 1n34a germanium diodes all sound different, so chances are each unit will sound different.

the sound variance in the kloms.is due.tomtje 20% tolerance in the pots. Most of gain is from the opamps. I have one I built with switcheable diodes and if I bet people cannot hear the difference between 1n34s and d9es even I could be rich

I thought I read the guy who made the Klon could hear the diode differences in it?

You did read that, but that doesn’t mean ole Billy boy was telling the truth.

It is interesting.

I do know for a fact that there is a difference in tone and feel when using different diode manufacturers for the clipping circuit in Jose amps (using the same values). Why wouldn’t this hold true for pedals?

 

[gibson5413]

I know it isn't a Klon or a clone of it but the new Metropoulos Supa-Boost is sounding great:

 

[blackba]

There are a lot to choose from. At this point most are super close sounding to the originals. Thing is, those 1n34a germanium diodes all sound different, so chances are each unit will sound different.

the sound variance in the kloms.is due.tomtje 20% tolerance in the pots. Most of gain is from the opamps. I have one I built with switcheable diodes and if I bet people cannot hear the difference between 1n34s and d9es even I could be rich

I thought I read the guy who made the Klon could hear the diode differences in it?

You did read that, but that doesn’t mean ole Billy boy was telling the truth.

It is interesting.

I do know for a fact that there is a difference in tone and feel when using different diode manufacturers for the clipping circuit in Jose amps (using the same values). Why wouldn’t this hold true for pedals?

On the Chellee Ponyboy V3 I just bought there is a switch for 2 different types of diodes. When the gain is kept low I notice no difference which is typically the way I use it. However, when you crank up the gain you do notice a difference. Chellee mentions this in the manual and description on the website. https://chellee.com/product/ponyboy/

So I think that may be part of why you see some saying that they make no difference and others saying that they do make a difference.

 

[IntenseJim]

Whats so good about these Klon's?

IMHO they are nice pedals but nothing particular magical about them. Just different flavors of boost be it the Klon/Klone, Timmy, TS variant, Koko , Xotic AC, etc. I'm not implying they sound they same.

 

[paulyc]

There are a lot to choose from. At this point most are super close sounding to the originals. Thing is, those 1n34a germanium diodes all sound different, so chances are each unit will sound different.

the sound variance in the kloms.is due.tomtje 20% tolerance in the pots. Most of gain is from the opamps. I have one I built with switcheable diodes and if I bet people cannot hear the difference between 1n34s and d9es even I could be rich

I thought I read the guy who made the Klon could hear the diode differences in it?

You did read that, but that doesn’t mean ole Billy boy was telling the truth.

It is interesting.

I do know for a fact that there is a difference in tone and feel when using different diode manufacturers for the clipping circuit in Jose amps (using the same values). Why wouldn’t this hold true for pedals?

It probably is true to a degree, but I believe Bill hyped his own circuit and the parts there in to discourage people from copying it, making them think they’ll NEVER get THE TONE because they don’t have the magic parts.

 

[ChurchHill]

I have no personal experience here, but it seems to me that Bill was absolutely hyping his product. He was trying to sell them, of course. And there are differences between various values and types of diodes. The question, at least to me, seems to be just how much difference do they make in this particular circuit. In reality, I doubt it's that much of a difference. I'm sure some, maybe even most, of us could tell straight away, but even then, how much does it really change the sound and feel? I have my doubts that an audience member could tell any difference at all. In any case, it seems that it's more a difference of preference than one of mythical proportion. In any case, it seems like a well-designed and thought-out circuit and deserves the attention, if not necessarily the price, that it receives.

 

[Speeddemon]

What exactly was Bill doing in terms on hyping his circuit? I mean, the first time around.


He gooped the circuit, adding some mystery. And tons of folks, especially on TGP creamed their pants about the Klon's tone. How is Bill actively hyping that?

If you mean him hyping it nowadays, then I'm with ya. But there I'm of the position "if you're no longer building it yourself, and your originals suddenly fetch crazy money, you can't really blame the community coming up with alternatives, and you should you refrain from adding oil to the fire". Same with Boss no longer making the FA-1's. There's some magic in that circuit too (combined with specific components). I've built versions 1:1 like the original (greeny caps, carbon film resistors, etc.) as well as modern low-noise updates. Most of the tone sits in the op-amps in that circuit, so I typically would avoid versions that substitute those with DIL op-amps, like a TL072).

Look, I never played the real thing, but I know a thing or two about boost pedals. From what I can gather, he had some rather unique approaches circuit-wise and it wasn't a totally simple circuit, opposed a pedal from a certain person who's first name starts with the last letter of the alphabet, IIRC pretty much copied a RCA preamp circuit, names it 'related to a rigid state of a male's appendage', sells an inherent design-shortcoming as a feature not to be feared, and asks $250+ dollars for it.

I'd say credit where credit's due and if the world goes crazy after drinkin' the kool-aid, you can't blame the builder IMO.

 

[scottosan]

There are a lot to choose from. At this point most are super close sounding to the originals. Thing is, those 1n34a germanium diodes all sound different, so chances are each unit will sound different.

the sound variance in the kloms.is due.tomtje 20% tolerance in the pots. Most of gain is from the opamps. I have one I built with switcheable diodes and if I bet people cannot hear the difference between 1n34s and d9es even I could be rich

I thought I read the guy who made the Klon could hear the diode differences in it?

You did read that, but that doesn’t mean ole Billy boy was telling the truth.

It is interesting.

I do know for a fact that there is a difference in tone and feel when using different diode manufacturers for the clipping circuit in Jose amps (using the same values). Why wouldn’t this hold true for pedals?

it's all about the signal level. Audio signals are in the form of AC. In a Jose the signal has to be of a certain threshold or level in order for the diodes to clip the signal. That why rolling the volume down on an Jose works so well. That's also why the master volume is where it is in the Jose and why the 1M resister paralelling thendiodes on the BE are where they are.

Now as far as pedal go it somewhat of a similar concept. Diodes are typically choses by forward voltage and type. Most silicon diodes have about a forward voltage of .7v and create what some classify as a hard knee in the clipping waveform. Most Germaniums on the otherhand cand be as low as .25v forward voltage and create a soft knee (smoother) waveform. Germaniums being older technology had larger tolerance whereas the silcon diodes are more consistent. Ultimately the placement and the forward voltage spec and type of the diodes have the largest clipping affect on the signal. The lower the forward voltage of diode, the more the signal is clippes. Because of this Germaniums typically clip more than silicon due to the forward voltage and people think Germaniums sound smoother because of the soft knee.

While some designs are more sensitive to diodes, the Klon is not one of them. Thays why some of the bigger modders stopped doing the soulfood mods, in which I the simply swapped to1n34 diodes. There was not a significant enough to keep doing the mod once people started doing a/b tests. 2 sets of Germaniums (2) 1n34 and 2 (d9e) matched to the same forward voltage will be indistinguishable. I've done this at on a switch and have people that couldn't even tell I was going back and forth between the 2. In this ciruit it's not even that sensative. At lower gain levels they barely come into play. At highest gain settings most of the clipping is from the opamps. At this point the forward voltage of the diodes has to be significantly higher before you start to here a noticeable difference. I'd say .50-.60v vs .30v. And even then it's just slightly more headroom

 

[paulyc]

What exactly was Bill doing in terms on hyping his circuit? I mean, the first time around.


He gooped the circuit, adding some mystery. And tons of folks, especially on TGP creamed their pants about the Klon's tone. How is Bill actively hyping that?

If you mean him hyping it nowadays, then I'm with ya. But there I'm of the position "if you're no longer building it yourself, and your originals suddenly fetch crazy money, you can't really blame the community coming up with alternatives, and you should you refrain from adding oil to the fire". Same with Boss no longer making the FA-1's. There's some magic in that circuit too (combined with specific components). I've built versions 1:1 like the original (greeny caps, carbon film resistors, etc.) as well as modern low-noise updates. Most of the tone sits in the op-amps in that circuit, so I typically would avoid versions that substitute those with DIL op-amps, like a TL072).

Look, I never played the real thing, but I know a thing or two about boost pedals. From what I can gather, he had some rather unique approaches circuit-wise and it wasn't a totally simple circuit, opposed a pedal from a certain person who's first name starts with the last letter of the alphabet, IIRC pretty much copied a RCA preamp circuit, names it 'related to a rigid state of a male's appendage', sells an inherent design-shortcoming as a feature not to be feared, and asks $250+ dollars for it.

I'd say credit where credit's due and if the world goes crazy after drinkin' the kool-aid, you can't blame the builder IMO.

Every interview I s ever read from him he’s made mention of unibtanium parts and “it can’t be done anymore, the supply is gone” etc etc etc it that’s not hype then what is

 

[scottosan]

What exactly was Bill doing in terms on hyping his circuit? I mean, the first time around.


He gooped the circuit, adding some mystery. And tons of folks, especially on TGP creamed their pants about the Klon's tone. How is Bill actively hyping that?

If you mean him hyping it nowadays, then I'm with ya. But there I'm of the position "if you're no longer building it yourself, and your originals suddenly fetch crazy money, you can't really blame the community coming up with alternatives, and you should you refrain from adding oil to the fire". Same with Boss no longer making the FA-1's. There's some magic in that circuit too (combined with specific components). I've built versions 1:1 like the original (greeny caps, carbon film resistors, etc.) as well as modern low-noise updates. Most of the tone sits in the op-amps in that circuit, so I typically would avoid versions that substitute those with DIL op-amps, like a TL072).

Look, I never played the real thing, but I know a thing or two about boost pedals. From what I can gather, he had some rather unique approaches circuit-wise and it wasn't a totally simple circuit, opposed a pedal from a certain person who's first name starts with the last letter of the alphabet, IIRC pretty much copied a RCA preamp circuit, names it 'related to a rigid state of a male's appendage', sells an inherent design-shortcoming as a feature not to be feared, and asks $250+ dollars for it.

I'd say credit where credit's due and if the world goes crazy after drinkin' the kool-aid, you can't blame the builder IMO.

Every interview I s ever read from him he’s made mention of unibtanium parts and “it can’t be done anymore, the supply is gone” etc etc etc it that’s not hype then what is

yeah, like the brand of 1n34a he used where serialized and records kept of their ownership like a rolex

He may have bought out the remaining lots from the distibutors, but that doesn't account for the countless that resided as unused antiquated stock from electronics manufactorors or secondary markets. The 1n34 which bill acknowledges to use was one of the most common Germaniums made

 

[Speeddemon]

What exactly was Bill doing in terms on hyping his circuit? I mean, the first time around.


He gooped the circuit, adding some mystery. And tons of folks, especially on TGP creamed their pants about the Klon's tone. How is Bill actively hyping that?

If you mean him hyping it nowadays, then I'm with ya. But there I'm of the position "if you're no longer building it yourself, and your originals suddenly fetch crazy money, you can't really blame the community coming up with alternatives, and you should you refrain from adding oil to the fire". Same with Boss no longer making the FA-1's. There's some magic in that circuit too (combined with specific components). I've built versions 1:1 like the original (greeny caps, carbon film resistors, etc.) as well as modern low-noise updates. Most of the tone sits in the op-amps in that circuit, so I typically would avoid versions that substitute those with DIL op-amps, like a TL072).

Look, I never played the real thing, but I know a thing or two about boost pedals. From what I can gather, he had some rather unique approaches circuit-wise and it wasn't a totally simple circuit, opposed a pedal from a certain person who's first name starts with the last letter of the alphabet, IIRC pretty much copied a RCA preamp circuit, names it 'related to a rigid state of a male's appendage', sells an inherent design-shortcoming as a feature not to be feared, and asks $250+ dollars for it.

I'd say credit where credit's due and if the world goes crazy after drinkin' the kool-aid, you can't blame the builder IMO.

Every interview I s ever read from him he’s made mention of unibtanium parts and “it can’t be done anymore, the supply is gone” etc etc etc it that’s not hype then what is

But again, was he giving these interviews when he was actively selling these pedals, when he started out, or later on, when the originals were fetching 4 digit numbers and more and more Clones started to appear?
If the latter, then I agree with you, but at the same time, it's weird, because he wouldn't gain anything at that point himself. He would just increase the value of the units on the used market.

On a related note: claiming to hear the difference between different 1N34A's* -at least to me- falls in the same category as 'directional guitar cables' or 'Hey, this Energizer 9V sounds a lot crappier in my wah than a Varta."

*=save for high tolerance-differences in the forward voltage drop (which would be audible in drive-circuits).

 

[UltraGary]

https://rockettpedals.com/product/arche ... ive-boost/

 

[psychodave]

There are a lot to choose from. At this point most are super close sounding to the originals. Thing is, those 1n34a germanium diodes all sound different, so chances are each unit will sound different.

the sound variance in the kloms.is due.tomtje 20% tolerance in the pots. Most of gain is from the opamps. I have one I built with switcheable diodes and if I bet people cannot hear the difference between 1n34s and d9es even I could be rich

I thought I read the guy who made the Klon could hear the diode differences in it?

You did read that, but that doesn’t mean ole Billy boy was telling the truth.

It is interesting.

I do know for a fact that there is a difference in tone and feel when using different diode manufacturers for the clipping circuit in Jose amps (using the same values). Why wouldn’t this hold true for pedals?

it's all about the signal level. Audio signals are in the form of AC. In a Jose the signal has to be of a certain threshold or level in order for the diodes to clip the signal. That why rolling the volume down on an Jose works so well. That's also why the master volume is where it is in the Jose and why the 1M resister paralelling thendiodes on the BE are where they are.

Now as far as pedal go it somewhat of a similar concept. Diodes are typically choses by forward voltage and type. Most silicon diodes have about a forward voltage of .7v and create what some classify as a hard knee in the clipping waveform. Most Germaniums on the otherhand cand be as low as .25v forward voltage and create a soft knee (smoother) waveform. Germaniums being older technology had larger tolerance whereas the silcon diodes are more consistent. Ultimately the placement and the forward voltage spec and type of the diodes have the largest clipping affect on the signal. The lower the forward voltage of diode, the more the signal is clippes. Because of this Germaniums typically clip more than silicon due to the forward voltage and people think Germaniums sound smoother because of the soft knee.

While some designs are more sensitive to diodes, the Klon is not one of them. Thays why some of the bigger modders stopped doing the soulfood mods, in which I the simply swapped to1n34 diodes. There was not a significant enough to keep doing the mod once people started doing a/b tests. 2 sets of Germaniums (2) 1n34 and 2 (d9e) matched to the same forward voltage will be indistinguishable. I've done this at on a switch and have people that couldn't even tell I was going back and forth between the 2. In this ciruit it's not even that sensative. At lower gain levels they barely come into play. At highest gain settings most of the clipping is from the opamps. At this point the forward voltage of the diodes has to be significantly higher before you start to here a noticeable difference. I'd say .50-.60v vs .30v. And even then it's just slightly more headroom

This makes a lot of sense... or at least it’s logical.

 

[psychodave]

What exactly was Bill doing in terms on hyping his circuit? I mean, the first time around.


He gooped the circuit, adding some mystery. And tons of folks, especially on TGP creamed their pants about the Klon's tone. How is Bill actively hyping that?

If you mean him hyping it nowadays, then I'm with ya. But there I'm of the position "if you're no longer building it yourself, and your originals suddenly fetch crazy money, you can't really blame the community coming up with alternatives, and you should you refrain from adding oil to the fire". Same with Boss no longer making the FA-1's. There's some magic in that circuit too (combined with specific components). I've built versions 1:1 like the original (greeny caps, carbon film resistors, etc.) as well as modern low-noise updates. Most of the tone sits in the op-amps in that circuit, so I typically would avoid versions that substitute those with DIL op-amps, like a TL072).

Look, I never played the real thing, but I know a thing or two about boost pedals. From what I can gather, he had some rather unique approaches circuit-wise and it wasn't a totally simple circuit, opposed a pedal from a certain person who's first name starts with the last letter of the alphabet, IIRC pretty much copied a RCA preamp circuit, names it 'related to a rigid state of a male's appendage', sells an inherent design-shortcoming as a feature not to be feared, and asks $250+ dollars for it.

I'd say credit where credit's due and if the world goes crazy after drinkin' the kool-aid, you can't blame the builder IMO.

Every interview I s ever read from him he’s made mention of unibtanium parts and “it can’t be done anymore, the supply is gone” etc etc etc it that’s not hype then what is

But again, was he giving these interviews when he was actively selling these pedals, when he started out, or later on, when the originals were fetching 4 digit numbers and more and more Clones started to appear?
If the latter, then I agree with you, but at the same time, it's weird, because he wouldn't gain anything at that point himself. He would just increase the value of the units on the used market.

On a related note: claiming to hear the difference between different 1N34A's* -at least to me- falls in the same category as 'directional guitar cables' or 'Hey, this Energizer 9V sounds a lot crappier in my wah than a Varta."

*=save for high tolerance-differences in the forward voltage drop (which would be audible in drive-circuits).

I could hear differences in 9 volt batteries...meaning carbon vs alkaline. Back in the late 80’s-early 90’s I had 9 volt mercury batteries that sounded awesome in all of my old MXR script pedals. Those batteries were used in hospital equipment. Too bad they were outlawed.

I’ve learned one thing over the years, just because I can’t hear something someone else is describing, doesn’t mean it’s not there. It’s not just audible either...some things sound and “feel” better.

On a slight tangent, back in the day a friend and I dove really far into the tone search...we did shit nobody thinks of, like when wiring up something, using the same iron, same solder and wiring it up (same direction off the spool as the signal goes) as quickly as possible so as to try and create the same solder joints from a metalurgic perspective. Tried using different soldering irons for different effects, different temperatures, etc. some of it was just bullshit, some of it makes sense and heck some of it is at a NASA level of science. haha. We’d throw pickups under pick guards, wire in caps between humbucker coils, wire pickups by hand and 3/4’s of the way through, change wire direction, it goes on and on.