What was the trick to amplifying your modeler?

[tjnx]

Like the others have alluded to, the secret and hard part is that you need to find a way to dial your patch in while in context. Idk how best to do that, maybe rent the venue or a place for band practice and sit at foh to adjust. Otherwise I think you're just going to be chasing your tail.

I play along with different patches with either backing tracks or songs I'm learning and I've yet to have a tone that works consistently in every mix. Sometimes its better than others. It could be a good starting point though if you're doing covers.

Adding some 4k, 8k will help but you just gotta find a way to try it out. In my experience the tonex patches that work better with the band are more fizzy than smooth.

The PA you're going through may need more 'ugly' tones to work best live if that makes sense. Or just go back to tubes

 

[TheGreatGreen]

A lot of guys talk about "amp in the room" tone but the truth is that it doesn't really exist, at least not in the way you think. "Amp in the room tone" is basically an entire spectrum of sound that changes depending on exactly where your head is relative to the cab within the room.

You've never liked "amp in the room" tone, you've actually always liked "amp in the room when the cab is exactly at X spot in Y room and my head is at coordinates and rotation Z" tone. You don't consider those other elements because you will just naturally move around without thinking about it until it sounds best and then you mentally clock "that" tone in your mind as your "room tone" no matter where else you may move around.

Contrast that mentality to getting a mic'd tone, or "FRFR" tone, which basically forces you to deal with the mic and the "listening position" of the mic, where you can no longer simply effortlessly adjust that mic in real time, which means now there's an extra layer of complexity. That extra element is where things can get frustrating, but if you can master that part, then suddenly you have a tone that is consistent and transferable, which imo makes that part worth it.

 

[JimAnsell2]

I've struggled with the idea that someone would choose modeling gear over a good tube amp but we are in an age when men think they can be women

LOL an unsolicited opinion on the trans community in a thread about FRFR


The internet always delivers.

 

[VonBonfire]

LOL an unsolicited opinion on the trans community in a thread about FRFR


The internet always delivers.

Amp sim user spotted.^

 

[tallcoolone]

Has anybody else struggled to fully enjoy modeling, but found some trick or piece of gear that made it click or be usable for you?

Patience. We are all used to hearing guitar speakers pointing towards our shins. Takes time to get used to hearing things differently.

 

[cardinal]

Are you guys trying to go from the modeler to an amp to a cab? Then how are you getting into the PA?

I just got an AM4. Into my DAW, meh. Out of my studio monitors, same meh. I haven't tried it with FRFR yet but a buddy has a rackmount Fractal, Crown power amp to a FRFR 4x12 and that gets some decent tones- but not tube amp quality.

All that being said, the AM4 direct to the PA is killing it in the live band and so far (and all my band mates agree) is superior to micing a cab. In this setting, the tones are cutting & easy for everyone to hear at reasonable volumes, and sound just like polished album tones. The key I've found is to only use the PA / monitors and don't also try & run a cab. Having sound coming from both a cab & monitors really muds things up- you need one source of truth.

I put this together to hear some comparos. Note when I do not run a HPF the PA tones are moving plenty of air to feel satisfied. When I do, guitar alone gets much less satisfying..

Most modelers have multiple outputs now. I run one with just the amp head profile into a power amp and cab and another output with an IR into headphones, interface, etc.

I generally prefer the sound coming from the cab, but a commercial IR gives a much better miked up sound than my dumbass could ever achieve. And yeah, I think it's best to let the PA carry the volume rather than try to have a cab on stage compete with it.

I've been using an old 2u, 40 pound Crest power amp that sounds fine. The actual tube amps are somehow more fun but I can't really explain why.

 

[NorCal_Val]

Has anybody else struggled to fully enjoy modeling, but found some trick or piece of gear that made it click or be usable for you? I’m trying to avoid moving towards a tube power amp, that somewhat negates the whole compact and lightweight thing.

I’m using a Fractal AxeFx3 turbo rig currently.
It’s still in the “proof of concept stage” for me.
I found the AxeFx to be fatiguing to play through in headphones, or through studio monitor speakers. But, that application wasn’t what I bought it for.
However, the two things I did to make it work for me are;
1)Running the AxeFx into a Fryette 2902 power amp, and into 2 KSR 2x12 cabinets.
2)Using a Fryette Valvulator 1 out in front of the AxeFx.
To my ears(and fingers), this rig is about 90-95% of the experience of running into my actual tube amps and cabs. There’s still some “feel/response” issues to be worked out by me.(the AxeFx doesn’t go into feedback the way a real tube amp does)
This is the rig I am using in my current band. Our other guitar player is using almost exactly the same rig, except he’s using a Boogie Simul 290 power amp. I won’t pretend it doesn’t sound pretty amazing.

 

[JackBootedThug]

I played a line 6 hd500 in church and it was great. My whole thing was finding some decent patches in the tone library and then tweaking them to taste. I went straight into the pa so at practice I played around with it at volume and in the band mix. Worked great for me. But that was at a church so…. For the grrrchuggachuggas live… probably wouldn’t have worked…

 

[VonBonfire]

My whole thing was finding some decent patches in the tone library and then tweaking them to taste.

I'm so old that when I was a beginning guitarist patches were something mom used to fix my jeans not my tone.

 

[JackBootedThug]

I'm so old that when I was a beginning guitarist patches were something mom used to fix my jeans not my tone.

Like early 80’s van halen patches?

 

[VonBonfire]

Like early 80’s van halen patches?

I dunno. Did Eddie's mom use those pre cut iron-on kind?

 

[311boogieman]

OP - I didn't read all the posts. I just popped in to remind you that this is Rig-Talk and that you have a typo in your thread title.

Its modding your amplifier. Not amplifying your modeler.

 

[stratjacket]

I'm so old that when I was a beginning guitarist patches were something mom used to fix my jeans not my tone.

 

[dooredge]

KSR PA-100 or PA-50. I have both. They are great power amps.

I have a Quilter Tone Block-200 (need to sell it), had the Seymour Duncan Powerstage 200, and neither compare to the KSR tube power amps through a 412. I wouldn't play a modeler any other way. Tried the Friedman FRFR deal too. I disliked it very much.

Go big or go home!

 

[Wayniac3]

I have an older Atomic CLR and a Boogie Simul satellite for my FM3. Neither one feels like an actual tube amp, but they are fun to play and convenient.
Traded for and solda QC. Maybe I didn;lt give it enough time, but I didn;t bond with it. It was convenient & fun & a huge step up from J station or Line 6 pod.

I actually prefer my powered Kemper through a cab. Still not 100% tube amp feel, but it feels closer to me. YMMV

Doesn't really matter as i am playing very little these days, and it is only Madison Square bedroom.

 

[GJgo]

KSR PA-100 or PA-50. I have both. They are great power amps.

I have a Quilter Tone Block-200 (need to sell it), had the Seymour Duncan Powerstage 200, and neither compare to the KSR tube power amps through a 412. I wouldn't play a modeler any other way. Tried the Friedman FRFR deal too. I disliked it very much.

Go big or go home!

There are increasingly more venues, especially in the cities, that won't let you in the door with a high power rig. If you don't have some sort of a silent stage option you're limiting where you can play.

This is why I've been trying a couple SS options, however, in trying them we've realized that with the reduced stage volume the whole band can hear itself better and thus we play tighter. Sorry, ego.

 

[rsm]

There are increasingly more venues, especially in the cities, that won't let you in the door with a high power rig. If you don't have some sort of a silent stage option you're limiting where you can play.

This is why I've been trying a couple SS options, however, in trying them we've realized that with the reduced stage volume the whole band can hear itself better and thus we play tighter. Sorry, ego.

what's your favorite SS option so far?

I have an ISP Theta Stealth, ss, stereo, 90W per side / 180W bridged mono @ 4 ohms which sounds good. But since I'm not playing live , hove no volume restrictions, and have an Engl E850/100 dual channel power amp...I use the Engl.

 

[dooredge]

There are increasingly more venues, especially in the cities, that won't let you in the door with a high power rig. If you don't have some sort of a silent stage option you're limiting where you can play.

This is why I've been trying a couple SS options, however, in trying them we've realized that with the reduced stage volume the whole band can hear itself better and thus we play tighter. Sorry, ego.

We don't play out a whole lot, maybe 6-12 shows per year so I've yet to run into that. We like it loud on stage, but we're not cranking things to 11. We do seek find the right balance so front of house isn't all bunched up with us being inconsiderate jerks. We realize they have needs too.

I want a cab on stage to fill it, but not overpower. I turn the cab up loud enough to hear it, then add a touch of my guitar through the floor monitor. I've yet to run into a soundman who's pushed back. For me it's not about ego. I hate IEM's and the "old school" approach of an amp/modeler through a 412 is the path. We always send a stage plot to the soundman in advance as well. I think that is a much appreciated approach and opens the door for a conversation if one is needed.

 

[MusicIsLife]

Before I went fully FRFR, I was going into a Crown XLS 1502, then into my favorite 4x12. Not all Class D amps are created equally, and you'll also want to err on the side of too much power. Also, make sure you're pushing the same amount of air as you would with your favorite tube amp. Getting amp-in-the-room from a modeler is about having the same speakers and volume as you would with a conventional amp.

 

[JDs Couch]

You guys are going to laugh, but I usually use my Mark IIC+ as a power amp only, for a stage monitor with a 4x12, and run my Kemper main outs to FOH and Monitor out to the Effects Return of the Boogie. "Cab off" on the monitor out.